codex crimson slaughter.... yup, GW really hates us.

[Minsc]

You know what the Crimson Slaughter Codex does better than any other codex in sixth edition? The artifacts actually make me feel like I am constructing a character rather than a just giving some special wargear to a blank slate. They have better background, effects, and even names than any other artifacts. 

 

+1.

 

It's probably the only artifact-list where I actually could consider fielding all of them at some point.

[Kol Saresk]

The Iron Warriors and Word Bearers are in equal boats. There's a council of lords/apostles that are the "top dogs". Below them are the various commanders of the Hosts/Grand Companies. Below that is pretty much ad hoc. Word Bearers shows a division straight into coteries while Storm of Iron showed smaller companies within the Grand Company.

 

I think what separates them from the Black Legion is the amount of infighting. For example, in Dead Sky, Black Sun, three entire Grand Companies are virtually wasted fighting each other. Honsou has to rebuild his warband from scratch the numbers were so depleted.

 

And Dark Creed, something like six entire Hosts, one of which numbered 2,000 IIRC were destroyed in what is considered a minor quarrel between Erebus and Kor Phaeron. Meanwhile, infighting amongst the Black Legion is unheard of. At least for the moment.

[Wade Garrett]

Didn't the Battlefleet Gothic rules for Abaddon's flagship have him firing on your own ships if they failed leadership tests?

 

Granted, that's a pretty shaky foundation to build on, but it does suggest a certain amount of dissent in the ranks if Abs feels that sort of response is called for to keep his boys in line.

[Sception]

Actually, infighting among the black legion when they're not on crusade isn't exactly uncommon, as warlords jockey for Abaddon's favor.  And the casualties listed for chaos infighting in a number of sources are, frankly, ludicrous, and at some point you have to stop reading what some of these writers write as actual numbers and mentally replace any number over a hundred with "wow, like, a whole bunch, man".

 

This is also probably the best way to treat claims of Huron commanding over 100,000 marines less than a hundred years after being beaten in the Badab war and the vestiges of his forces fleeing into the Maelstrom.

[Kol Saresk]

Didn't the Battlefleet Gothic rules for Abaddon's flagship have him firing on your own ships if they failed leadership tests?

 

Granted, that's a pretty shaky foundation to build on, but it does suggest a certain amount of dissent in the ranks if Abs feels that sort of response is called for to keep his boys in line.

Actually that always reminded me of Darth Vader's "You have failed me for the last time." Not really dissent, just a lack of tolerance for failure.

 

Are the sources for infighting in the Black Legion that common?

 

That brings me back to a question I had a while back then. If the Black Legion suffers from infighting, then what separates it far enough from the others that it can be titled "the most organized"?

[Sception]

I'm not sure it warrants being called 'the most organized', rather it is simply the largest arguably coherent chaos force.  The organization actually seems somewhat more loose than the Iron Warriors, Death Guard, or Word Bearers, for example.  Abaddon says things he wants to get done, delegates the things he doesn't want to do personally to his chosen, who in turn delegate the tasks they don't want to do personally (and haven't been ordered to do personally by abbadon), to one of the warlords who report to them. Those warlords then complete those missions in whatever manner suits their capabilities and disposition, possibly calling in favors from other Black Legion or non-Black Legion warlords, or striking up new daemonic pacts or bargains with the dark mech as necessary.  If they fail, the Chosen will send someone else.  If failure goes on for too long, or starts impacting other endeavors, then the Chosen who was responsible moves in personally after all, lest Abaddon have time to take notice.

 

When not under a mission passed down from above, the various lords take their various ships where they will to pursue their own agendas - hunting relics, pirating, indulging old grudges, seeking out other chaos Warlords in over their heads, who could use the aid of a Black Legion force in exchange for promises of participation in the next crusade, etc.  Whatever they can to earn a name for themselves or undercut or eliminate their rivals so as to catch the Warmaster's eye, and possibly be in a position to become one of the Chosen themselves should one of the current number die or be elevated to the rank of daemon prince and stolen away by one of the gods for use in their petty games.

[minigun762]

I think we've drifted far enough way from the topic at hand to end this thread.