Bloodgrin Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 As a Space Wolves player I am intrigued the more in get into the lore of my flip side here, and I also love the Egyptian swagger. I have Space Wolves, Eldar, some Inquisition and just went hard into Necrons (the Egyptian thing again) so I do not NEED another army but ....I have some random Chaos players in my area and we have some good games. (Also where would I start best, just the Chaos codex or...?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 As a Space Wolves player I am intrigued the more in get into the lore of my flip side here, and I also love the Egyptian swagger. I have Space Wolves, Eldar, some Inquisition and just went hard into Necrons (the Egyptian thing again) so I do not NEED another army but ....I have some random Chaos players in my area and we have some good games. (Also where would I start best, just the Chaos codex or...?) I not going to try and sell 1KSons to you, I don't think they are very good when it comes to rules. So It is most certainly a modelling/painting/fluff-love army. Also, 1KSons have never been great so I wouldn't expect anything to get better soon. If you want your 1KSons to be more competitive, I suggest that you take a lot of Tzeentch Daemons... Hell, Take Daemons as your primary detachment and stick in some rubrics. One of the lists I my 1kSon army is to take Daemons as my primary but then take a 18 (Tzeentch's sacred number is 9) man Rubric squad to hold my army together in the middle of the field. Read the fluff, look at some of the threads in here that have pictures. Some of the guys here have done amazing stuff. Tzeentch really gives you a chance to make things look weird, and arcane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 TS can certainly be good, they have a very narrow nische though, marine killing. They are expensive and hard to use, but they can do a lot of good things! :) As the previous poster said, adding daemons to the Thousand Sons force is indeed a good suggestion, and it's an awesome army for convertions! ...as for the fluff...well, TS are the one reason I switched from WHFB to WH40k back in the 90s when the Codex: Chaos was released. These doomed marines, led by their powerful sorcerers, their tragic fall and sad existance. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a saying that fits very well with The Thousand Sons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yeah, it is fluff and moddeling you want Thousand sons for, as whilst they can hold their own against most, against tau nad eldar forget it, and you will need good luck and to make no mistakes to have success against other forces due to our rules, or the lore of Tzeentch (that by itself screws us over massively).For fluff, I'd recommend Ahriman:Exile and battle of the fang, both do much to portray to sides of the legion and are fairly good themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummus Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Plus 1 for ahriman exile A lot of t son players are using the new crimson slaughter codex as a counts as Ps shoot the space puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Plus 1 for ahriman exile A lot of t son players are using the new crimson slaughter codex as a counts as Ps shoot the space puppy I'd be less hasty, my username gives a hint as to my first army and the main one when I joined BC ;) :P It does seem weird that space wolf players are tempted by Thousand sons, and vice versa :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 It's a famous rivalry in the 40k universe. The TS and SW have a close relationship, filled with hatred and malice towards each other, hehe :D Ahriman: Exile and A Thousand Sons are both great books to get into the fluff with, as well as the various bits about the rubric and Ahriman in the codex. Yes, people are using both the CS supplement and the BL supplement to make Thousand Sons warbands with their additional and more thought out artifacts. Ahriman is a cool cat to have on the board, but he is rather expensive for what you get out of him unfortunately. The Thousand Sons themselves are actually very resilient in todays climate with all the "ignores cover" and ap2-3 that is spewed around the battlefields nowadays thanks to their 4++ save. It comes handy quite a bit, especially if you manage to get endurance or invisibility on them or something for the extra protection against small-arms fire. The Aspiring Sorcerers are actually pretty dangerous in cc, as a difference to all the other aspiring champions in the book, hehe, though they are quite expensive and have useless psychic powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Must admit, we do have one point of honour, in a codex where every page reeks of the authors disinterest in the faction and desire to work on something else, Tzeentch has the distinction of the author actually making effort, admirably it was in finding new ways to nerd and make our special rules as over costed and useless as possible, but hey, can't have us hurting the elder or wolves :PIf the mot had been unchanged and just made models with it one more mastery level then normal as well as the invun thing thousand sons would actually be decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The Thousand Sons are the single greatest tragedy in a universe of tragedies, driven by the noblest of intentions. Their arrogance was their downfall, in ignoring the edit of Nikkea. Magnus Tried to warn the Emperor of Horus's betrayal, but was himself declared the traitor. Betrayed by his father. Russ was sent to bring Magnus in for questioning, but Horus changed the order to a kill order. Betrayed by his brother. In Russ's blind following of orders, he razed a loyal legion to the ground, massively depleting his and the resources of the Thousand Sons. The Space Wolves are the brutish, unwitting villains, killing loyal legions under the orders of Horus. The Thousand Sons were the true loyalists, who were forced into Chaos to survive the triple betrayal of the Emperor, Horus and Russ. Upon reaching the Planet of the Sorcerers, Tzeentch betrayed the pact with Magnus to halt the flesh-change. Ahriman betrayed Magnus in enacting the rubric to try and preserve his legion from madness and spawndom. Magnus's reward for his pursuit of knowledge and for trying to warn the Emperor of Horus's treachery was to be betrayed by his father, two of his brothers, his god, and finally his own son. No other figure arouses such pathos in the 40k world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well said! Who can ever have anything against our lovely futuristic geeks the Thousand Sons. Eccentric, powerhungry sorcerers, accompanied by the souls of their brothers entrapped in enchanted suits of armour! It's pure awesomeness! :D http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1367/57/1367575557726.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodgrin Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 (A little ot are noise marines any good with Thousand Sons? I have someone offering me a box of them and a chaos sorcerer for some eldar extras that I have in a trade thread) That art is fantastic, and the lore is one of the things that drew me to the Sons, the more I read into the Wolves I branched off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I believe so, I use a unit of them as support for my rubrics, fluff wise they are the remnants of destroyed war band who the sorcerer came across, and basically offered to save them in return for servitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 When we speak of the Thousand Sons we speak of betrayal, arrogance, thirst for knowledge and the true price of power. The Thousand Sons are perhaps the most unique of the astartes legions, by unique I really mean it, for they operated on scales and in theaters that the other legions did not even knew of, or even perceived. The Thousand Sons were and still are the masters of the spiritual and mercurial forces that drive the galaxy, humanity and perhaps the most close to the Emperor for not only they are astartes but most of them are also psykers, or at least tutored in the arcane arts. Being a Thousand Sons is being a creature of the mind, to live in a realm bound not by physical laws but completely spiritual in its essence. To be a Thousand Sons marine is to actually understand how the myriad of cogs turn in the galaxy, to be the indisputed master of cause and effect, to be illuminated. The Thousand Sons were the wardens of the outcast, of those feared and shunned by the human species, they loved, trained and developed the psychic potential of the human species, they nurtured the myriad of outcasts who were hated by their own species and whose only sin was to be born with the knowledge of ones souls and the Immaterium. Prospero was perhaps the most perfect society developed by our species, that and the realms of the Thousand Sons. The XV legion preached harmony, unity of mind and purpose, a spiritual bonding of the species and a life in balance with the environment, the Warp and the rest of humanity. What the Thousand Sons achieved was to create a literal paradise for a human being. Prospero had schools, accademia, institutions of learning, craft and artistry. Knowledge was shared freely, minds were trained, spirits were lifted and their hard labor proved that there is a possibility for the human species to live in paradise, to live a full life. All ended with the Burning of Prospero, the most base deceit ever perpetuated between astartes legions. If Istvaan was a tragedy, than Prospero is a horror, a nightmare. Unshackled and brute, ignorant and savage, ruthless and vicious, the Space Wolves came, they came and they shattered not only a world, but they shattered a dream, the living proof that humanity can live in peace and harmony, a proof that there was no need for ignorance, lies and superstition in the Imperium, the Space Wolves shattered a dream of a humanity truly free from the burden of ignorance. So with the fall of Prospero the vision of the Thousand Sons shattered, it shattered because they were loyal, because their sire warned the Emperor with the most expedient means available to him, Prospero burned because there is no place for the learned and the illuminated in the Imperium. Prospero burned because ignorance and lies are a far better shield for humanity than knowledge and illumination. Enter the Planet of the Sorcerers where once again the Thousand Sons proved to be a strong brand of astartes and where they decided to no longer serve lies and falsehoods, where they declared war upon a lie. It is true Tzeentch, the God of Change, played with the Thousand Sons, it played with Magnus but the result was only a legion who unlocked its godlike potential, a legion which finally shattered the chains that were binding it to a lie and when they returned, they were ascendant. Powers undreamt of by mortals, legions of demons, the very reality a plaything for the sorcerers and the mighty Rubicae at their side, the Thousand Sons were reborn. Reborn not only into the favored servants of Tzeentch but reborn in both mind, temper and spirit, the Thousand Sons became what they were meant to be, the sole masters of the most powerful force in the galaxy, magic. While the tabletop portrayal of the Thousand Sons is at best a very poor approximation in background the Thousand Sons are a force capable to achieve the impossible with only a few sorcerers and some Rubic Marines. We speak of a traitor legion which when persecuted war shattered the very reality and physical laws around them. We speak of animated titans, kinetic shields which were able to provide shelter from an entire fleet bombarding the planet, we speak of squad leaders which were able to foresee events like the disposition of the enemies or the landing of a grenade with moments in advance and were able to counter them way more effectively than any other legion out there. The Thousand Sons in battle were a sight capable to shatter the sanity of all involved in the battle and while they were the smallest legion they were perhaps the most powerful one when fully committed. With the Thousand Sons you learn that nothing is impossible for them. Ahriman is said to be able to lock entire planetary systems in geometric patterns, the daemon princes of the legion can veritably make anything possible. We speak of a force that hears your words even before you speak them, we speak of a traitor legion that can unravel reality at whim and of a legion that can break even the mightiest of walls with merely an incantation. There are no limits to the potential of a Thousand Sons Sorcerer and even the Eldar cannot come close to the sheer psychic might unleashed by one of the many covens of the XV legion. In short the Thousand Sons have perhaps the most interesting background of all the factions in the 40k universe. Nothing comes even close to magic when we speak of any fantasy setting, and in 40k magic is the province of the Thousand Sons. When we imagine a Thousand Sons sorcerer, the commander of our army, we imagine him on quests for magical trinkets, ancient spells, words of power, true names, We imagine him enacting long term plots to twist and break his enemies, we imagine him playing the game of power on the Planet of Sorcerers, we see him play with is enemies, not only a step ahead but perhaps a dozen or so steps ahead of not only his enemies but of his followers too. On tabletop the Thousand Sons are perhaps one of the most colorful armies ever devised by GW, maybe the Orks come close but the Thousand Sons, really, those are some of the most beautiful looking armies ever. You have ranks of Rubic Marines with their azure and gold motif, with elaborate helmets and ornate weapons. Than you have all kinds of organic and twisting engines of war for Change, hence mutation, is the domain of Tzeentch. Add in some daemons of Tzeentch and you would really have an explosion of color even in the most basic of army lists. Sadly playing the Thousand Sons as per background is not that exciting but it is viable. You roll a lot of psychic powers, you kill marines with ease but you really need other armies, especially daemons of Tzeentch to complement your force. The Thousand Sons are a niche army, an army for a connoisseur for you really need to feel and love their vibe to enjoy them. As an army they are the wet dream of every painter, much more so than the other armies and when done properly... by the Dark Gods you will make most of the other armies envious. Literally, the Thousand Sons are an explosion of colors and have this, ancient, ornate, almost baroque look to them which makes them very appealing for the player who likes to field an elite, noble and imperious force, which is much in line with the character of the army. Why are they not played that often? Well namely because the iconic unit, the Rubic Marines is a rather lackluster unit. It is expensive, requires a lot of micromanagement and has a number of traits which are not fitting to the arena of combat that is the 6th edition. The Rubic Marines are a marine killer unit, they have the AP3 bolters and the Sorcerer acts as an improvisation for a heavy weapon with his psychic powers. On a side note, a force weapon and a 4++ is golden when comes to challenges. My sorcerers have killed a lot of stuff which I would have never imagined. The humble Aspiring Sorcerers have killed for me Huron, Wraithkingths, Tigurius, MC, Daemon Princes and a score of other special characters. When you know that you are going to be assaulted save the Warp Charge and hope for the best, a wound and a discipline check and even the mightiest of foes can be felled. Now all in all the Thousand Sons are an army for a very specific kind of player. They are not a strong army, they never were, don't expect them to win tournaments, wipe out armies by turn three or dominate. More often than not you will struggle, but when Tzeentch will favor you and your dice roll hot, well than the Thousand Sons can be a dangerous prospect. It is the case for the Thousand Sons that an ally is almost mandatory, for the army has many gaps. The Thousand Sons are a slow army, the daemons of Tzeentch are quite fast (Screamers, Flamers), the Thousand Sons are a shooting army but they suffer hordes and armor, so you must always fill this gaps in your army setup. Interesting enough... the daemons of Tzeentch are perfect for this role. But as it has always been the case with the Thousand Sons, either you are mad in love with them or you would never even deign to look upon them. It is an army for the connoisseur, for the collector, for the painter, it is not an army for a player, even less so for a competitive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Though it was beautifully written and I agree with it Tenebris, I have to desagree with only one thing. Though the army is an army for the painter/modeller mostly, it's also an army for the player. Why? Because it's challenging! (very challenging) But when everything comes together, those times when you win with a Thousand Sons army while looking awesome on the board, are just perfect! :) ...damn, all the activity on this part of the forum makes me want to break out my Thousand Sons again! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aasfresser Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I can only agree with all Tenebris and Excessus said! I loved the TS from the first time I've read the background back in the 3.5 edition codex....damn, all the activity on this part of the forum makes me want to break out my Thousand Sons again! And yes, break your TS free. I will not stop harassing you until I see a newly painted Rubric marin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think that the greatest appeal of the Thousand Sons can be explained in a simple example, healing. When a marine was wounded and needed to be healed, he was taken to the Apothecary, who more often than not was a Pavoni, a member of the esoteric cult which practiced the art of Biomancy. A Thousand Sons marine was thus not only healed in body, mended in flesh, but he was healed in soul, in mind and in spirit for the touch of a Pavoni rekindled not only the spark of life but also the fire in ones soul. When such a marine returned from the healing temple was completely restored on so many levels that the physical level was merely one of them. Such a marine felt his soul refreshed, his mind alleviated of pain and trouble, his spirit brighter, his senses heightened and his body renewed. In short such a marine was reborn, remade, recast. Such a healing was not only a labour of love and mind, but also was an exercise in harmony, a practice in knowledge and above all in patience. So when we speak of the Thousand Sons, we speak of beings who live and are aware of so many dimensions and layers of existence that their physical form is mely one form of their being, merely one expression of their soul. When in fluff or novel it is stated that the Sorcerer destroyed his enemy in body and soul this is meant literally, there is no escape to the dimensional gaze of one of Magnus's sons, nor to his corruscating magical touch which sears flesh but scars the soul too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 We also have the awesomesauce Adeptus Exemptus Atharva, who was so good at biomancy that he was able to kill the gene making him a sorcerer to be able to fight a blank properly! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I love my Thousand Sons. No matter what diverts my attention, I always come back to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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