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VETERAN's - 2500


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#1
Morticon

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Heya guys. 
 
The 5th annual Vets is in one month and i'm trying to finalise my list. 
 
I'm taking a "Type B" (non-titan, non-dataslate, side-board ) list which will allow me some tactical flexibility with what I come up against. (Dataslates and Titans have to play type A lists, which dont have side-board options). 
 
I'm going for SM/BA - with a nice 50/50 split.
Its looking like i'll come up against a titan or two, and DEFS flying circus daemons :/
 
Any thoughts/suggestions would be awesome. Thanks.
 
 
Here's my core (of 1750 - and then the two 750 add-ons).
 
Clan Raukaan Master - Bike, Hammer, Gorgon 
5x Command Squad Bikers - 3x Grav Guns, Champ, Apoth, 3shields
Mephiston
 
1x Furioso - Frag, Mag
1x Drop Pod
 
8+1x SM Bike Squad - Grav gun, MG, cmbi grav,, MM.
10x SM Scouts - Pwr Maul
5x SM Tacs - 
1x SM Razor - TLPG/LC
 
1x BA Storm Raven
1x SM Thunderfire
 
 
 A. 
4x Hyperios Launchers
7x BA Vanguard Vets - Axe, 5 MBs
1x SM Storm Raven
5x BA ASM 
1x BA Razor - TLPG/LC
 
B. 
4x Hyperios Launchers
2x Vengeance Launcher Batteries - 2 Twin Linked Quad Icarus.
1x SM Storm Raven
5x BA ASM 
1x BA Razor - TLHB
5x BA ASM 
1x BA Razor - TLHF
 
 
List combo-A is set to deal with titans in general.  It will be my preferred list against them. 
List B will be my heavy-scoring requirement and Anti-flying circus list.  Any flyer heavy lists will probably face my list B combo.. 
 
Essentially I have about 255 points to play with between the two lists.  
 
I was strongly considering throwing in a squad of 8 Legion - MG, MM and Axe or fist. 
I really like the idea of 3++ for all purpose stuff and vs. Daemons/Screamers etc.
 
What do you guys think?  

Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

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#2
Paulochromis

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Gotta say 2500 is a pipe-dream for me, I never get to field all the units I want to at 2000.

 

I'm surprised that the Furioso is going it solo. I'm assuming it's chasing First Blood, but wonder if that's the method at such a high points level?

Nothing else bar the TFC will be engaging Turn1. You could end up surrendering First Blood instead.

 

Are the SM scouts going forward (bolters/shotguns), riding a raven (bolters/shotguns/CCWs) or hanging back (snipers).

If not hanging back, what else is benefitting from the TFC Techmarine's Bolster Defences? The Hyperios? That's a lot of eggs in one basket.

 

I like the LoTD a lot, so much so that I'm looking at 2 smaller (5-6 man) squads rather than a single bigger (8-10 man) one.

It's all about the weapons. They don't score, so they're mainly nuisance/distraction bait units.


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#3
knife&fork

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Do you expect to face Nids, guard or orks? Mainly thinking about matchups where grav might be wasted.

 

Is that hammer the only reason you went with Clan Raukaan?


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#4
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K&F,

 

There will only be 1, maybe 2 nid players.  But both of them have a considerable amount of gribblies.  If theyre playing Tyrans, the concussive rule on the Gravs are amaze.  The ork player (Nigel aka DirtyRat) always rocks at least one squad of Megaarmour boys with the leader, and the guard are probably the ones where i'll waste the gravs the most.

 

I expect lots of MEq, lots of Eldar, some Tau, some ork, some guard. 

 

I went Clan Raukaan for the IWND on the Warlord, and the 1:6 chance of 3+ FNP.  With gorgon he gets +1 to FNP, and he has 5+ in the command squad.  #3 on the Warlord table is +1 to FNP - granting a 3+.  Vets has the rule called "The Experienced Warlord" whereby if your WL lives, he may roll 2d6 on the Warlord table of choice, picking his result.   (Also making the scouts a little more hardy)

 

However, as nice as that is, i think I preferred the tactical flexibility that the White Scar tactics offered with Hit/Run.


Paulo,

 

You actually made me think about something.  The Veteran's format doesnt have first blood as an option in most missions- and where it does, its not that important in terms of points.  With that in mind, the pod dread may not be an ideal use of points, though I really like it as an all purpose sniping unit.  May have to reconsider its role. 

 

As to the scouts, again, the Vets format is such that the missions are quite intricate. And the outflank ability or infiltrate ability will be so beneficial for me. They could also go in the raven.

 

I should really post the missions, since theyre so different.  Really does affect the list building!


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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#5
Morticon

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Okay, after asking some people in various places, it looks like this is looking to be the way forward for me:

 

White Scars Master - Bike, Hammer, Shield Eternal, Artificer, Auspex
5x Command Squad Bikers - 3x Grav Guns, Champ, Apoth, 3shields
Mephiston
 
8+1x SM Bike Squad - Grav gun, MG, cmbi grav,, MM.
10x SM Scouts - Pwr Maul
5x SM Tacs - Flmr
1x SM Razor - TLPG/LC
5x BA ASM - Flmr
1x BA Razor - TLPG/LC, Search Light
 
1x BA Storm Raven
1x SM Thunderfire
 
 
OPTION A :  General - (Focus on Daemons, Flying lists and lists with hammer units)
 
4x Hyperios Launchers
1x SM Storm Raven

10x Legion of the Damned - MM, PG, Cmbi grav. *

1x SM Storm Talon - Skyhammer Missiles  

 

OPTION B:  Anti-Titan

 

4x Hyperios Launchers
1x SM Storm Raven
7x BA Vanguard Vets - 6x MB, 1x PW.
3x SM Attack Bikes - 2MM, 1HB **

 

 

* Im contemplating dropping the LoD to 8, and dropping a combi for a Damocles rhino.  The reroll will be handy, as will the orbital bombardment. I will take a 5 point ding in comp however (out of 30 for comp, which counts out of 300 for the tourney in total). It may just be worth it though.

My final comp score would be 23/30 (other places i lose points are for a named character, and a duplicate non-troop unit ie: the Ravens).

 

 

** Ideally id love a bashy BA dread or a Iron Clad here instead of the attack bikes, but i will lose comp points again if i dont have a unit of Fast attack maxed out to their uni capacity.  I'm also concerned about too many points off board otherwise.  In this list, there are 5 biker units screaming towards the titans, hoping to tie them up. 

 

 

Your thoughts?


Edited by Morticon, 21 April 2014 - 07:06 PM.

Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#6
Morticon

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I'm going to take the ding to comp, and go with the recently discovered Mortis Dread. 

 

I really like that it has skyfire, and i think it will be much more beneficial than the 2HP talon, which, even though its cool will only come on turn2.  

The ding allows me to make use of  more points to play with, and I can fit in a Damocles too.  This gives me some nice tactical boosts for the LoD, with the Ordnance barrage and with the reserve mods. 

 

So, at the moment, my non-titan/general-purpose add on is:

 

4x Hyperios

1x Mortis Dread - twindakka

1x SM Raven

1x Damocles Rhino

7x Legion of the Damned - MM, PG, Cmbi Grav


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#7
Orogen

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Mort, check out the Sicaran tank - very cost effective and can lay down some dakka.  Might be good to bring in vs. flying circus, etc.


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#8
Morticon

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outta my price range brosef!!!! 

><; 

 

i will check it out though. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#9
Morticon

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Thinking of reworking the list. 

 

Found out the command squad is illegal - the master doesnt unlock him <_< 

 

And im feeling its too elite ><;

 

Hows something like this:

 

 

Mephiston

Corbulo

 

5x ASM - PW (axe), MG, MB

Razor - TLPG/LC

5x ASM - PW (axe), MG, MB

Razor - TLPG/LC

5x ASM - PW (axe), MG, MB

Razor - TLPG/LC

10x Scouts- PW (maul)

10x ASM - 2MG, PF

 

3x Attack Bikes- 3MM

3x Attack Bikes- 3MM

10x Vanguard Vets - Fist, Claw, 6MB

 

Raven 

Raven

4x Hyperios

 

 

(Thats Option A for titans- Option B loses the Vanguard and gets 10 LoD + Damocles - for all purpose).

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#10
Jolemai

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How do the options/sideboards work? Never played with them before.


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#11
Morticon

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Jolemai, 

 

The Veteran's tourney has a choice of two types of list, a Type A, and a type B. 

 

Type A lists are straight 2500 but are allowed titans/LoW/dataslates and mighty bulkward fortifications. 

 

Type B lists have a 1750 core, and then a choice of two 750 point add ons.  The choice of which add on to use is made after the opponent declares what his primary army is and if he is a type A or B list (with no titans/LoW/Dataslates etc)

 

Your core+add-on is not restricted in any way, provided that when they combine, they are legal. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#12
Morticon

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Played a mish with the following:

 

Mephiston

Damocles

 

Corbulo

 

Fraggy Pod (w/ homer)

10x LoD - MM, PG, Cmbi-Grv

 

10x Scouts- PW

10x ASM - 2MG, PF

5x ASM - PW, MB, MG

Razor - TLPG/LC

5x ASM - PW, MB, MG

Razor - TLPG/LC

 

3x Attack Bikes- 3MM

3x Attack Bikes- 3MM

 

4x Hyperios

1x Raven

1x Raven

 
This particular list nets me 14/30 comp points - which is not ideal, considering the last veteran's tourney came down to a 4 point difference out of 260 points!!!!  
 
Every single point counts.  
The problem is, any duplicate loses me the +7 point bonus for the "no duplicate except troops".  (not to mention the 2points actually lost for duplicates. 
 
But, 2 ravens are just too, too good. The double attack bikes are also sick sick sick. 
 
 

 

The game went really well.  I think i cleaned up nicely and convincingly - I like having the 5man squads that can actually do a little damage.  

 

The scouts always seem like cheap scoring, and never do much, but they do claim, and thats good.  

 

 

I'm looking to some small changes!

 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#13
Paulochromis

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You have 2x3MMAB - isn't that already losing you the 7 comp pts?

 

Are you allowed allies in the type B lists?

if you put the scouts, LotD and 1 raven into a C:SM ally, would the double ravens still be penalised?

Of course, you'd then need to find room for an allied HQ (2 MMABs?)

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It's not the genius who is 100 years ahead of his time but average man who is 100 years behind it. -Robert Musil (1880-1942)
People of small caliber like to sit on high horses. -Magdalena Samozwaniec (1894-1972)

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#14
Morticon

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Paulo - yup,yuup.  :/  I lose the bonus +7 for the double bikers.  I LOVE them, but more worried about the Ravens than them. 

 

As for cross-dex stuff- nah, that wont work.  

 

The 750 add on can have anything in it, so can the core- it doesnt matter what is in the two parts, just so long as when each of the combos combine, theyre a legal list. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#15
Morticon

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Latest spin on the above theme- nets me 23/30 - which i'm okay with.
 
Mephiston
 
Corbulo
 
5x ASM - Axe,MG, MB
Razor - TLPG/LC
5x ASM - Axe,MG, MB 
Razor - TLPG/LC
10x Scouts 
10x Tactical Marines - LC, PG
 
4x Hyperios
1x Raven
1x Raven
 
3x Attack Bikes- 3MM
 
 
ANTI ALL
10x LoD - MM, PG, CmbiGrav, PAxe 
5x ASM - Axe,MG, MB 
  Razor - TLAC (or TLPG/LC)
3x Attack Bikes- 3MM 
5x DC - 1Axe 
 
ANTI TITAN- 
 
Furioso - Bashy Fists
10x Vanguard Vets - Fist, 7 MB 
3x Attack Bikes- 3MM 
5x DC - 1Axe
 
 
(the DC are only really there to give me a +3 point bonus thanks to being a different type of Troop )

Edited by Morticon, 30 April 2014 - 12:00 PM.

Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#16
Jolemai

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Why the dual Fists? Is +1A really worth it over the Frag Cannon?


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#17
Morticon

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Why the dual Fists? Is +1A really worth it over the Frag Cannon?

 

 

Jo - You raise an excellent point.  I could always have a frag.  Never used on in a raven.  He defs wont have a pod, so his roll will be for getting out the raven and charging.  That being said, i dont mind losing 1 attack.  

 

Will playtest it as suggested!


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#18
Jolemai

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Since they ditched the Tear Attack on the Blood Fists, I've not found a reason to use them. Especially as the other Fist will have either a Storm Bolter or a Heavy Flamer. Much rather go with the tired and tested Frag Cannon, Melta Gun and Magna Grapple.


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#19
Morticon

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id need to find 15 points from the Anti-titan list to grab a grapple though! 

 

I can even lose some of the VVets ?  2 of them down means 60 points free.  Gives me enough for a MG.

 

Other 45 points can go to 1 more DC and a fist. Can even tweak to get a hammer- lose the Axe and pick up another DC.  

 

Thoughts? or you rate the dual assault is the way forward?


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#20
Jolemai

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You know what the field is like better than us, do you see being able to combat squad your VAS as a necessity? If not, maybe go down to the classic seven model number and toss in a Storm Shield?


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#21
Morticon

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From what ive been seeing, im thinking the double VAS is the way to go.

 

One more question, 

 

Seems like there will be 3 belakor players there <_< 

 

With some fiddling, i can get pretty much the exact same load out as above, minus 3 attack bikes- and in its place, can get a Rune priest on a bike (for the 4+ deny). Im thinking that can seriously help with the Psychic nonsense. 


Do you think its worth it? 

 

Everything else remains largely the same (swap out a raz squad for a wolfy raz squad).

 

Jaws/and LL could come in handy. 
 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#22
Jolemai

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Perhaps, but I've never used a Rune Priest. Would it be cheaper for the Grey Hunters to be in a Pod rather than a Razorback and if you were to go for a Razorback, what weapon would you use? As least you don't lose points for duplication.

 

If your Storm Ravens had a different loadout, would you still lose duplication points?


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#23
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Yeh, if it comes from the same unit selection, its duplicate (in anywhere other than troops) -same cross codex. 

 



Added some more thoughts:
 

My biggest opponents will be daemons (2 belakor lists), a double thirster list and oddly a sisters list (currently scariest of the lot i'm finding O_O) There will be titans- Warhound, Stompa etc. 

 

I have chosen to take a non-titan, non-dataslate list which allows me the option of side-boarding. 

That means I have 1750 core, and 2x 750 add-ons to choose from.

 

My current core is this:

 

 

Mephiston

 

Corbulo

 

5x ASM - MB, PW, MG

Razor - Las/Plas

5x ASM - MB, PW, MG

Razor - Las/Plas

5x TAC - PW  (for bonus comp)

Razor - Las/Plas

10x SCT - 5xSR (for bonus comp)

 

4x Hyperios Launchers 

2x Storm Ravens

 

3x Attack Bikes - 3MM

 

 

CURRENT ADD ON OPTIONS:

 

 

ADD ON 1 (Anti-TITAN)

 

10x Vanguard Veterans - TH, 6 MB, JP

5x DC - PW  (for bonus comp)

1x Furioso - Frag/Fist 

1x Baal Pred - TLAC, HB

 

ADD ON 2 (All-purpose)

 

10x Legion - Cmbi Grav, Axe, MM, PG

5x DC - PW (for bonus comp)

1x Baal Pred - TLAC, HB

8x ASM- PF, MG 

 

 

 

Now, there are a few considerations to make.  

 

Firstly, this list nets me about 27or28 out of 30 comp -which is really high. I need to keep the 4 diff troop types in each list to get that, though.  BUT -if i can make things uber killy, and take a reasonable hit, i dont mind.

 

Secondly, im torn between the Baal and another squad of MM bikers.  The baal is "nice" - but those bikers seem quite tactically flexible.  The Baal absorbs some of the long range, high strength shots incoming. This is a big concern for me.

 

Next - instead of the jumpers I can have another 5man, axe,meltagun, meltabomb squad in razor. I lose the tactical flexibility of the jumpers and ability to charge etc quickly.  But, i pick up some more firepower.

 

 

Finally- that double thirster list is doing my head in.  I have no idea how to take them.  The legion of the damed will help a little with 3++, but beyond that, i'm thinking of going back to the Chapter Master on bike idea. 

 

Daemon/ALl-purpose ADD ON option:

 

10x  Legion - Cmbi Grav, Axe, MM, PG

1x WS Chapter Master on bike - shield eternal, artificer, bike, hammer, Auspex

5x WS Bikes + Attack Bike - Cmbi melta, 2x GravGun

 

(that list drops me to about 23 comp- but i can live with that). 

 

 

What are you thoughts?


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

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Corbulo Tactica

#24
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Okay, guys. 

 

Last one unless there are glaring issues.  

Ive taken what people have said into consideration, including the grav gun idea. 

 

Thinking of this:

 

Meph

Damocles

 

Corbs

 

2x 5 ASM - Axe, MG, MB

2x Razors- TLPG/LC (1Dozer)

10x Scouts- 5SR

5x DC - Axe

 

3x Attack Bikes- 3MM
2x Ravens

4x Hyperios
 

ANTI-DAEMON:

 

1x SM Librarian - Axe

1x 5 SM  TAC - Gravgun.

1x Razor- TLPG/LC (or TLAC)

10x Legion - Combi-grav, plasma, multimelta, axe

1x DC Dread - Snippy Claws

1x Thunderfire Cannon. 

 

ANTI-TITAN:

 

10x BA Vanguard - 6MG, PF

1x DC Dread - Bashy Fists

1x 5 SM TAC - Axe

1x SM Librarian - Lvl 2, Bike, Axe

 

 

 

First combo offers the general all-porpose stuff. Got stuff for hordes, for elite armies, and for the big MC daemons (i think).  Im happy i squeezed in a Tfire - i think theyre incredible units.  That combo, with the legion should hope to even the odds a little. 

 

The anti-titan combo is simple - SM libby rolls on telepathy to try get puppet master (lol), and probs hangs out with the attack bikers.   Bashy dread and Mephy hitch rides in Ravens -depending on whether the titan has any ranged D weapons.

 

And vanguard help out by striking in and tying up the big boy.  

 

I'm really liking the feel of this- as thin on the ground as it is ><; 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#25
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Ive figured out a way to get full comp (by having no multiples/duplicates).  This involves me trading a Raven for a Fire Raptor.

 

I lose a fair deal of tactical ability - ie: the ravens transporting fighty guys - but, the dakka they put out is just so, so, so sick.

 

I also pick up a good few more points. 


Do you think its worth it?


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica