AfroCampbell Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 If you have access to the novel i highly recommend re-reading the last chapter/epilogue. I did this evening and cannot believe how many vital details i missed and how it relates into setting up Scars. It also VERY STRONGLY hints at a future legion split. Omegon ‘Let him (ALPHARIUS) see the fallen fruit, sitting warm and inviting in the afternoon sun,’ Omegon whispered to the empty battle plate. ‘And let me be the serpent beneath. Hidden and waiting to strike.’ merely lines before he had been spinning yarns to the big A also interesting .... thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneOfOneThousand Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Good spot! I've recently started re-reading the heresy books because I must have missed so much first time round. Legion for example was 20 (see what I did there) times better second time around when I wasn't trying to rush through. Same for the first trilogy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Interesting. I was waiting to see when that Omegon teasing would bear fruit. Now Scars is in my "to read" pile I know I may find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 All setting up for a Alpha civil war imo. Would be interesting to see if it's just both Primarchs taking a different Acuity option to spread the odds, or if Omegon is genuinely loyal to the Emperor. Also, I think the armour under the cloth in Omegon's quarters could be Knights-Errant armour, iirc the description matches the description of Garro's new armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 yea i agree, the armour does NOT sound like the Effrit Stealth Armour that naysayers would likely suggest.... it also then makes you wonder if somebody has already contacted him ala Malcador/ Garro etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I had never thought about the possibility that it was Knight-Errant armor. That would be pretty cool. I just always assumed that it was armor in the old Indigo colors, but I like the Knight-Errant idea better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 If you have access to the novel i highly recommend re-reading the last chapter/epilogue Could you clarify what specific novel you are referring to? Legion for example was 20 (see what I did there) times better secondtime around when I wasn't trying to rush through. Same for the first trilogy too. Alpha Legion means never having to say "see what I did there"? :) I've read Legion 5 or 6 times now and it's still among my favorites. Abnett did some pretty trippy stuff in Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Could you lay out your rational? I haven't got the time to sit and read The Serpent Beneath at the moment and you're theory interests me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 More than a internecine war in the ranks of the Alpha Legion I think that the case is for a plot to remove Alpharius from the head of the XXth legion and bring it back, to its roots in proper Omegon style. Said that, Eskandor is the ultimate act when brother betrays brother for the good of the legion I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Lol just to throw a badger amongst the lions, maybe it's Omegon who is Khyron, 8th Grand Master of the Grey Knights. You know, exalting treachery, brothers betraying brothers and all that. Who knows maybe the Nemesis Force Halberd on his statue is actually The Pale Spear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Possible, though I would suggest that the spelling of Khyron points to it being a Nostramo Night Lord, otherwise there is no purpose it not spelling it Chiron. Reaching a bit there I know I think Janus is a good fit, for the obvious reason of Janus being the two-headed god, Alpharius and Omegon being one soul in two bodies etc. Also in that Ferrus Manus short story, when he see's statues representing all of the Primarchs Janus is used to represent the Alpha Bros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talos402000 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 There are many possible interpretations of this. My personal take is that one of the brothers has fallen to chaos (Omegon) while the other remains loyal to the Acuity (Alpharius). Or vice-versa. You never know with the Alpha Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 The one thing that kinda makes me feel that it isnt just an Omegon or Alpharius plot is that Sheed Ranko was fully committed to die for Omegon's cause, that he had actually explained. Omegon also has this mystery statement.... "The Third Paradox... He rubbed his eyes with a finger and thumb; his mind ached with responsibility. He thought on the tortuous network of contacts and relationships, secrets and lies, betrayals and bought allegiances. They were spread out across the galaxy and closing like a net. Omegon saw himself at the knotted heart of the entanglement." Saw himself at the heart of the entanglement is an interesting statement. anybody know about the Third Paradox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFH Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 All setting up for a Alpha civil war imo. Would be interesting to see if it's just both Primarchs taking a different Acuity option to spread the odds, or if Omegon is genuinely loyal to the Emperor. Also, I think the armour under the cloth in Omegon's quarters could be Knights-Errant armour, iirc the description matches the description of Garro's new armour. I should know better than to read an Alpha Legion thread before I drive to work. It's really hard to drive when your mind has just been blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The third paradox could be the one that led to stalemate at the end of Horus Heresy. Horus died and Chaos got beaten while Emperor won but mortally wounded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The third paradox could be the one that led to stalemate at the end of Horus Heresy. Horus died and Chaos got beaten while Emperor won but mortally wounded... Except that we've already seen that future because it was the one that would bring about the final victory for Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 could be where they're in it for the long haul - Horus loses, the emperor slowly rots and 10,000 years later the Alpha legion eventually comes out tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Also, I think the armour under the cloth in Omegon's quarters could be Knights-Errant armour, iirc the description matches the description of Garro's new armour. http://img.pandawhale.com/45822-jon-stewart-mind-blown-gif-DF98.gif Mind. Blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The third paradox could be the one that led to stalemate at the end of Horus Heresy. Horus died and Chaos got beaten while Emperor won but mortally wounded... Except that we've already seen that future because it was the one that would bring about the final victory for Chaos. I remember members of the board talking about this a while back and most came to the conclusion that the 3rd paradox was that the Emperor won and Horus was defeated yet the Emperor sustained no crippling injuries. The cabal are a mix of xeno-scum who have often voiced their dislike or hatered for humanity, why would they not only show two visons both of which humanity would be killed in rather the third which would see humanity come out of the Heresy better than they actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The third paradox could be the one that led to stalemate at the end of Horus Heresy. Horus died and Chaos got beaten while Emperor won but mortally wounded...Except that we've already seen that future because it was the one that would bring about the final victory for Chaos. I remember members of the board talking about this a while back and most came to the conclusion that the 3rd paradox was that the Emperor won and Horus was defeated yet the Emperor sustained no crippling injuries. The cabal are a mix of xeno-scum who have often voiced their dislike or hatered for humanity, why would they not only show two visons both of which humanity would be killed in rather the third which would see humanity come out of the Heresy better than they actually did. Because I'd imagine that in all three visions they still get wiped out so they'd at least want one of the visions to take their enemy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The third paradox could be the one that led to stalemate at the end of Horus Heresy. Horus died and Chaos got beaten while Emperor won but mortally wounded...Except that we've already seen that future because it was the one that would bring about the final victory for Chaos. I remember members of the board talking about this a while back and most came to the conclusion that the 3rd paradox was that the Emperor won and Horus was defeated yet the Emperor sustained no crippling injuries. The cabal are a mix of xeno-scum who have often voiced their dislike or hatered for humanity, why would they not only show two visons both of which humanity would be killed in rather the third which would see humanity come out of the Heresy better than they actually did. Because I'd imagine that in all three visions they still get wiped out so they'd at least want one of the visions to take their enemy with them. Worth noting that Eldrad is working against the Cabal and their visions, and his guidance/visions are usually right*. Either he's seen something else that disproves the Cabal's visions, or the vision that they've shown the Alphas is the only one that works out for them. I think it's in the TFH that either Erebus or Lorgar are talking about how many different threads and realities there are when dealing with visions of the future, it seems awfully suspicious that the Cabal have whittled it down to two... sneaky xenos. *Apart from that one time he died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Or he has been shown the "right" visions to lead him down the path where he'd get eaten by Slaanesh. Sometimes the best way to trap someone is to give them exactly what they want. And its in Betrayer. Erebus proudly states how he has seen the Ten Thousand Paths of the future and Lorgar basically goes "You're an idiot if you think there are only ten thousand and that all of them are true or could ever come to pass." It in the same discussion where Lorgar tells Erebus that Sanguinius will never be converted to the Traitors' despite there being so many possible futures where it could have happened, IIRC. But that's the thing. Everyone(even Curze and Talos[?]) receive their visions from the warp. In some cases, those visions are given to them. The Ten Thousand, the Final Two, maybe even the Third Paradox, and especially anything concerning runes since you are basically asking the universe to tell you what to do or not to do and the thing about 40K is that you can't always trust those visions. Look at Soul Hunter. Talos trusted those visions to come right then and there. They didn't come about until Void Stalker. Even then, the vision he had of Xarl dying on Tsalgualsa was proven false and he still misinterpreted the vision of Uzas killing Cyrion. And the Outcast Dead has the Emperor receiving a vision of himself dying on the Vengeful Spirit and what does he do? [voice=Ace Rimmer]"Well, this is the first glimpse of the future I've seen since the war started so I'm going to do it. So what if it came from a warp-possessed Navigator?"[/voice] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Loki Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I had also wondered about the plot of Legion. It struck me that Omicron seemed to be acting against/ behind Alpharius back. Damn these alpha legion! More intrigue than a tzentchien plot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Or he has been shown the "right" visions to lead him down the path where he'd get eaten by Slaanesh. Sometimes the best way to trap someone is to give them exactly what they want. And its in Betrayer. Erebus proudly states how he has seen the Ten Thousand Paths of the future and Lorgar basically goes "You're an idiot if you think there are only ten thousand and that all of them are true or could ever come to pass." It in the same discussion where Lorgar tells Erebus that Sanguinius will never be converted to the Traitors' despite there being so many possible futures where it could have happened, IIRC. But that's the thing. Everyone(even Curze and Talos[?]) receive their visions from the warp. In some cases, those visions are given to them. The Ten Thousand, the Final Two, maybe even the Third Paradox, and especially anything concerning runes since you are basically asking the universe to tell you what to do or not to do and the thing about 40K is that you can't always trust those visions. Look at Soul Hunter. Talos trusted those visions to come right then and there. They didn't come about until Void Stalker. Even then, the vision he had of Xarl dying on Tsalgualsa was proven false and he still misinterpreted the vision of Uzas killing Cyrion. And the Outcast Dead has the Emperor receiving a vision of himself dying on the Vengeful Spirit and what does he do? [voice=Ace Rimmer]"Well, this is the first glimpse of the future I've seen since the war started so I'm going to do it. So what if it came from a warp-possessed Navigator?"[/voice] I think there needs to be more of a distinction between the warp and Chaos here. Erebus, from what I've seen, gets his power and visions from Chaos. Eldar Farseers most certainly do not. The whole process is described in Path of the Seer, I don't remember it in detail but it definitely has no hint of Chaos in it. You could make a case for Curze either way. It could be a genetic inheritance from the Emperor, or it could be that he was already tainted with Chaos. Talos' power, although a genetic inheritance, comes from the same source as Curze's. There is a lot to think about with that, chaos taint and genetics etc, but my main point is the difference between Eldar Farseers viewing the future and the likes of Erebus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Ehhh. Yes and no. There is a big difference between the sight of Erebus and the sight of Farseers. But that distinction does not lie in the differences between the Warp and Chaos. There isn't one. The Warp is Chaos, and Chaos is the Warp. There is a difference between the Chaos Gods and the Warp, however. The Gods are entities that exist within the Warp, within Chaos. Though the power that defines them, and the power that they can provide, is derived from the Warp, it is distinctive from it. Erebus' visions are granted to him by these powers, or lesser vassals thereof, due to his supplication to them, and is by this virtue colored by it. The Farseers, on the other hand, gain their vision from an innate genetic capability not unlike our own psykers, and operate in contention with the powers within the Warp. It is like the Webway. It exists within the Warp, and therefore travel through it is travel through the Warp, but the means behind it both protect it and restrict it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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