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30k Alpha Legion Tactics

MSU 30k Alpha legion

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1647 replies to this topic

#1626
Gorgoff

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I played thursday a noice game with a new guy, so HH does well in my area. :)
Bring back Psycho Dad!
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#1627
K3nn3rs

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I don’t think HH is dead... just slightly stagnant.

I new FAQ & errata would help kick start some fresh momentum as would a black book that offered more then just a focus on 2 Legions and the Talons.

#1628
Cadmus Tyro

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Greetings fellow legionnaires.

I have a 1500pt game against custodes next week and I would appreciate some advice on my list:

Spoiler


So the plan is to infiltrate the quad mortars on a flank to bypass flare shields on a priority AV target

The rest deploy around my deployment line with the foot slogging dreads in support. Infiltrate allows me to deploy mostly second and avoid his slower units.

The other option would be to take Skorr and combine infiltrate and scout on the seeker squad to annihilate a unit with the combi plasma turn one. But this relies heavily on getting first turn!

Any thoughts brothers?

Cadmus

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#1629
Hesh Kadesh

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You're probably going to lose. It's custodes, and you're at 1500pts. There's not much more to say other than Custodes are broken good, and Legion lists especially do not work until 2K+ (and the game begins to break down at 2.5K+; 2.4k is about the optimum for a good fun, fast paced game)

 

Custodes are just too resilient, and too capable that even if you do get a good flank against one vehicle, you've also got to try and go first, which you have no way of manipulating. Clever terrain planning will also see you SoL with your Quads, and he can even just refuse flank you, because he has speed on his side, and you don't. 

 

TL:DR, pod your Dreads, it's the only chance you have of scoring a win by putting threats in his face turn 1.


Edited by Hesh Kadesh, 10 April 2018 - 09:36 PM.

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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#1630
Cadmus Tyro

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I would pod the dreads but I’m still waiting on forgeworld to rerelease the dread pod. Perhaps I should push for a 2000pt game and take my typhon.....

How about changing it up completely and taking a primarchs chosen list with Ferrus Manus and the Xth? How do custodes deal with the heavy armour?

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#1631
Hesh Kadesh

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At that stage, you're getting into dick move territory by bringing a Primarch to 1500pts battles. We had a game where we were playing a 750pt Zone Mortalis, and they brought Fulgrim. He doesn't get invited to come play with us any more (final straw that broke the camels back; continuously uninterested in actually playing the kind of games our group was keen on playing).

 

All I can say if you're interested in running a Primarch, let your opponent know you're doing it.


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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#1632
Cadmus Tyro

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Fair point, perhaps that’s too far....it’s a new group and I’m more into narrative play TBH. But I do want to give a reasonable account of myself at the same time.

Thanks for your insight Hesh, good to have you back posting.

Cadmus

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#1633
Imren

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You have the moral right to bring cheese to a cheese fight, so line up those shatter shell/phosphex loaded quadmortars, typhons and primarch etc.

 

Consider maxing out on tactical squads and play the mission, your opponent will have fewer and smaller units, it will take him many turns to chew through 20 man tactical squads with additional CCW and apothecary. Plasma squads will help you.

 

Against custodes you could try go the ork-way and blob up and sit on objectives (infiltrate in on them), You will havfef an head start since he has to move towards and engage the objective sitters, you'll cash in a few VPs until he comes and contests them in close combat, and in close combat, your advantage is numbers, just like orks.


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#1634
Gorgoff

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First of all we should drop the habit of calling them "Custodes". The army is called Talons of the Emperor and should be named like that. The reason for this is, that most players tend to forget, that there are many different units in that army and by calling it Custodes we enforce that further.
If a TotE ;) army is made of a good chunk of Sisters of Silence as well it becomes more interesting to play for both sides. Sisters have great rules without being op and give the inevitable marine something to do.
That's why we try to encourage TotE players to actuall field them. :)
What works against them:
Seeker with Combi-Plasma, TSS with Plasma Guns, Executioner Predator tank, Vindicators, all sorts of Dreadnaughts in CC (not against units with lots of Melta Bombs and those damn shields of course), Volkite Culverine, going for objectives.

What doesn't work against those damn golden dudes:
everything with S 4 or less, Phosphex Thudd Guns (only AP3 means they do :cuss against Custodes), Heavy Bolters, Missle Launchers and almost anything without AP2.
CC is a bad idea. Very bad actually. The Custodes are horrible good at it and will win fights with a huge winning margin which means your units will run and be killed. Unless you have a Chaplain or another way of being fearless or stubborn it is not a plausible tactic against the golden dudes. Sisters you can get with it hence my preamble.

You have to run and shoot.
Run and shoot.
Run.
And shoot.
That's tje way to go. Rushing headlong into close combat won't win you anything against TotE.

Edited by Gorgoff, 11 April 2018 - 06:08 AM.

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#1635
Cadmus Tyro

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Good point Gorgoff, I’m aware that Quads are fairly useless against infantry but the shatter shard shells will help against armoured targets. I think I may be a bit out with my points calculation. I can probably squeeze a fourth quad mortar into the list and split them into two batteries of two. Would it be worth dropping the contemptor for some standard load out seekers? At least they can benefit from the mutable tactic.

I’m going to post an alternate IH list in the relevant section, would be interested in any other thoughts!

Cadmus

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#1636
Fallen11

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What I have learned playign few games vs custodes, and some of those games were with 500pts more, and I lost all of them. They are broken OP. Tankibune, which costs around 50% of primarch, can tank your primarch, maybe even kill him. On top of that, he can bring valdor, which is in his own class. Less survivable than tankibune, still very cheap for what he brings.

Bikes are broken, considering d3 lascanon shots each, very survivable, movable, good ,in cc etc.

 

transports, broken - not only is he very cheap for what you get, AV 14 with flare shield, but he can jink on top of that, and negate 50% of what you do. Still, his guns kill anything that is not terminator.

Sister transport is also very good.

Their dreadnought, comapred to legion one, make legion one laughably UP.

 

If he makes deathstar, you can't kill that in cc no matter what you throw at it. Even shooting it with your whole army is not gonna kill it.

Ofcourse, your enemy might decide to footslog his entire army and not bring anything that is good, then they are probably manageable.


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Hydra Dominatus!


#1637
Cadmus Tyro

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Thanks for the advice brothers, the tenthousand are no longer tenthousand strong. Victory for the XXth.

Plasma seekers are the way forward.....

Cadmus
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#1638
Gorgoff

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Thanks for the advice brothers, the tenthousand are no longer tenthousand strong. Victory for the XXth.

Plasma seekers are the way forward.....

Cadmus

Yup.
When they fire at the squad they called their hatecrime upon most of their shots hit and wound which helps a lot.
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#1639
Withershadow

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Yes, 94% of your shots will hit and successfully wound. Can't get much better than that.


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#1640
Gorgoff

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Yes, 94% of your shots will hit and successfully wound. Can't get much better than that.

Oh yeah, last time I played against TotE my 6 man Seeker squad hit 12 times and wounded 12 times, killing 4 Custodes.
Damn, that felt good.
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#1641
Cadmus Tyro

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Yes, 94% of your shots will hit and successfully wound. Can't get much better than that.

Oh yeah, last time I played against TotE my 6 man Seeker squad hit 12 times and wounded 12 times, killing 4 Custodes.
Damn, that felt good.

It’s feels better when they’re bikes .

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#1642
Vogon

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I too have a game coming up against a talons army. I don’t believe he’ll be bringing any SoS with him, just the golden boys.

I’m suspecting jet bikes but know he has a Galatus and a Caladius with autocannons along with a lot of sentinels and guard.

I was thinking a Fire Raptor would be a good start and a 10 man Volkite Caliver tac support squad for plenty of higher strength shots. At 2000 points do you think it’s worth throwing Alpharius in? I know he’s a points sink but I think he’s going to be one of the few things that could stand up to combat with them, possibly with a body guard of Lerneans.

I was also thinking of putting Exodus in to take pot shots at the inevitable tankibune if a shot gets though that’d be 2 wounds thanks to the lethal shot rule.

But then what? Vets with the sniper rule? Sicaran to help with the jet bikes? Sicaran Venator to deal with the Caladius? I’m assuming that an Assault squad is going to get minced in combat even on the charge and not to bother with them. Is a dread with an assault cannon worth a punt?

giphy.gif

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Vogon

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#1643
Imren

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If you want to bring a ten man Volkite squad, bring Culverins instead of Calivers. Here is why (both are AP5 and have deflagrate):

 

Culverins: 45", S6, Heavy 4 (10x costs 50p on a 10 man strong heavy support squad)

Calivers: 30", S6, Heavy 2 (10x costs 45p on a 10 man strong tactical support squad)

 

Against Custodes you really want him to roll tonnes of saving throws so statistically you'll get some kills with each round of shooting. Since both types are heavy, tactically there is no difference, you either move or shoot for both of them. Culverins have a 50% longer range, and since the price difference is negligible, choosing between them is a no brainer in case you have heavy support slots available.

 

I's also suggest the following for fast attack:

  • 2 or 3 Javelins with misslile launchers, 2x hunterkiller missiles and multimelta each.
  • A unit of six scimitars (with 2x Culverins) or skyhunters (with 6x Culverins).

These skimmer units you play evasive in the sense that they unload their shots and keep distance to the custodes units to avoid getting charged. They pack a tonne of S8 and S6 shots. so you'll make him roll a bunch of saves. Use these guys mobility to stay away from getting charged. See them as a highly mobile firebase that shoots and evades charge range.

 

The Scimitars will be a a bit tough to put down with their T5 and 2+ save. Make sure to get the sergeant upgrade to improve their Ld but nothing else except for maxing out on Culverins.

 

I guess bringing a plasma support squad to deep strike (with Dynat) rapid fire range goes without saying. if you bring seekers keep in mind that the Scorpius round are 24" heavy 1. So they need some tactical effort to get use of the scorpius rounds, Perhaps kit them out with combiplasma if you want to have a round of moving and shooting.



#1644
Vogon

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Imren, I currently have 3 scimitars but have the weapons magnetised so switching out isn’t a problem but I don’t have any infantry with Culverins at the moment. They’re on the to buy list but not in time for the game, same for the Javelin.

I have a heavy squad of missile launchers and also a unit of Thallax which might be fun to throw in as a bit of high toughness resilience but I think they’re not that capable of taking Custodes down.

Cheers

Vogon

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#1645
Gorgoff

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Speaking of point sinks:
Drop the Learneans. ;)
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#1646
Vogon

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Speaking of point sinks:
Drop the Learneans. ;)


Really?

I had thought that with a 2+ save and the high strength of the Volkite chargers they might be able to do some damage. You think they’re a poor choice?

Cheers

Vogon

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#1647
Spiritual Liege

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Against Custodes they will get butchered. That so called high strength shooting isn't going to do a single thing against Custodes and they will just die to at initiative ap2 that they have in droves.

Don't try to melee them. You will lose. You must outshoot them, be it a bucket load of dice from culverins or ap2 from plasma.

Also why would you think Exodus is a good choice against them? That ap3 is just outrageous and he won't probably get a single shot through the entire game.
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#1648
Vogon

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I’ll be honest I was looking at the models I have and working out what has high strength that have a better chance of causing wounds.

Cheers

Vogon

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