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30k Alpha Legion Tactics

MSU 30k Alpha legion

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#1776
Unknown Legionnaire

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For intercept rule, I assumed it worked as I say, I just though it's strange why even say, hey you can shoot some weapon now, and in next phase you can shoot with rest of the weapons, since table wise there is 0 difference about what is gonna happen.

About Alpharious question, somewhere before in this thread someone mentioned he doesn't provide Hatred if he is in vehichle, but rereading rules I wasn't sure considering that Lorgar for example explicitly said he doesn't work from transport. 

So to sumarise it, if Alpharius is in transport and revealed he provides Hatred to other marines?

 

 

There is a slight difference. Read my above post.

 

Alpharius grants 'Preferred Enemy' ... not 'Hatred'. Yes ... it works while he is embarked on a vehicle. It even says so in his bloody rules.


Smile like Dynat when you're winning !


#1777
SkimaskMohawk

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Well the rule actually says "gain the Preferred Enemy (Everything) special rule while he's on the table and has been revealed". The argument is then whether being in a transport counts as being on the board or not, something that's usually been addressed in the edition's FAQ but got lost in the shuffle, but also slanting towards the "no" with "when a unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside".



#1778
Unknown Legionnaire

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There's no argument, it's even specified in his rules.

 

Read the 'Sire of the Alpha Legion' rule and the fourth paragraph of the 'One of many' rule below that.

 

He only needs to be revealed, not on the table. And he can be revealed to be inside a vehicle, capacity permitting.


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#1779
Gorgoff

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There's no argument, it's even specified in his rules.

Read the 'Sire of the Alpha Legion' rule and the fourth paragraph of the 'One of many' rule below that.

He only needs to be revealed, not on the table. And he can be revealed to be inside a vehicle, capacity permitting.

The point is that he isn't on the table if embarked because noone is.
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#1780
Unknown Legionnaire

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Please, re-read my post and the respective entries in his rules.  


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#1781
Gorgoff

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Please, re-read my post and the respective entries in his rules.  

Sire of the AL: All Models [...] gain PE [...] while he is on the table and has been revealed.

He is not on the table when embarked.

The One of many paragraph doesn't change that a bit.

Embarked models are not on the table therefore he doesn't give PE to his army.


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#1782
Cadmus Tyro

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Please, re-read my post and the respective entries in his rules.

Sire of the AL: All Models [...] gain PE [...] while he is on the table and has been revealed.
He is not on the table when embarked.
The One of many paragraph doesn't change that a bit.
Embarked models are not on the table therefore he doesn't give PE to his army.

Yes, I’ve heard this argument before, could you tell me which page of the rule book/FAQ clarifies it, save me looking through when I get back from work!

Cadmus
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#1783
Gorgoff

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Please, re-read my post and the respective entries in his rules.

Sire of the AL: All Models [...] gain PE [...] while he is on the table and has been revealed.
He is not on the table when embarked.
The One of many paragraph doesn't change that a bit.
Embarked models are not on the table therefore he doesn't give PE to his army.
Yes, I’ve heard this argument before, could you tell me which page of the rule book/FAQ clarifies it, save me looking through when I get back from work!

Cadmus
Page 78 "embarking".
Remove the miniatures from the table blablabla.
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#1784
Fallen11

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So lets say enemy knocks down alpharius from the table, your army looses buffs, you put him back up, roll dices, wanna reroll 1's, but enemy picks Alpharius model to look at him, you can't reroll since he is not on the table xD


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#1785
Gorgoff

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So lets say enemy knocks down alpharius from the table, your army looses buffs, you put him back up, roll dices, wanna reroll 1's, but enemy picks Alpharius model to look at him, you can't reroll since he is not on the table xD

Or if Arnold Schwarzenegger comes buy and eats it.
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#1786
WrathOfTheLion

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So lets say enemy knocks down alpharius from the table, your army looses buffs, you put him back up, roll dices, wanna reroll 1's, but enemy picks Alpharius model to look at him, you can't reroll since he is not on the table xD

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#1787
SkimaskMohawk

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There's no argument, it's even specified in his rules.

Read the 'Sire of the Alpha Legion' rule and the fourth paragraph of the 'One of many' rule below that.

He only needs to be revealed, not on the table. And he can be revealed to be inside a vehicle, capacity permitting.

First, Sire of the Alpha Legion explicitly says he has to be on the table. I don't know how to explain it any clearer; it's literally what it says. Second, One of Many doesn't say in any way "alpharius counts as being on the table while being in a transport"; it lets you reveal him while embarked.

Him granting PE while in transport isn't specified or even hinted at, and SoftAL is explicit in requiring him to be on the table.

This brings us back to the argument of whether being in transport counts as being on the table. RAW it's no, RAI its not clear because faqs that addressed it were never for 30k. However, as 30k uses most of the rules for 7th ed 40k barring multi-grenades and a few tweaks to psychic stuff then it's safe to go with the FAQ, which straight up says no and backs up the RAW.

https://www.warhamme...book-final-faq/

Edited by SkimaskMohawk, 14 February 2021 - 04:26 PM.

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#1788
Fallen11

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That's why I asked because for Lorgar it specifically says that he doesn't count as on table if he is in vehicle, but same doesn't say for Alpharius.


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#1789
Gorgoff

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That's why I asked because for Lorgar it specifically says that he doesn't count as on table if he is in vehicle, but same doesn't say for Alpharius.

Inconsistent rule writing is and always had been a big problem.
Example: the rules specifically permitting that troops in a flying transport can score but nowhere you find any word about troops in regular transports. So why did they bring that up in the first place? And if so why did they specifically explain that scoring units in buildings still score? Infuriating that's what it is.

Edited by Gorgoff, 15 February 2021 - 04:36 PM.

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#1790
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Just to check, since I ain't sure, about AL Praevian and Castellax, I was reading few discussions, and I am not sure has concensus been reached  about if Castellax take one of special rules(tank hunter for example) do they still infiltrate because praevian has infiltrate, and he is part of unit or not?!

 


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#1791
Charlo

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Infiltraite is not granted by attached characters.

 

However, if they take LA:Alpha Legion instead and it's the chosen ability they should have it.

 

....I think.



#1792
Cadmus Tyro

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Just to check, since I ain't sure, about AL Praevian and Castellax, I was reading few discussions, and I am not sure has concensus been reached  about if Castellax take one of special rules(tank hunter for example) do they still infiltrate because praevian has infiltrate, and he is part of unit or not?!


Pg22 Of the FAQ updates the legion praevian rules to specifically state that the automata do not benefit from the LA rules of the praevian. Instead, they can choose from a selected list of generic or legion specific rules.

So no, unfortunately they can’t infiltrate.

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#1793
RoadRunna

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For the benefit of the group I recently ran a 750pt ZM game using the unique Headhunter ROW with the following:

 

Autilon Skorr Pwr Axe (m/craft) Arti Armour

Refractor Field

 

  2 X 5 man HeadHunter Kill Team Pwr Axe

Sgt Artificer Armour

 

      Breacher Squad 2 X MeltaGun   Meltabomb (Sgt) PowerAxe (Sgt) Sgt Artificer Armour

 

 

List performed surprisingly well against Deathguard and taking the win in an objective grab mission.  Breachers were able to hold their own in HTH while the 2 squads of Headhunters doused the enemy tacticals with fire then took the charge.  While one squad was wiped the other with Skorr was able to kill its opponents to score the objective.  Infiltrate via Skorr with the Counter-charge Mutable tactic was a boon for the army as it was vital to get the HH squad in the right place to pick its opponent without being overwhelmed.  Deployment was a key focus of this win

 

Anyway I would run them again...



#1794
Cadmus Tyro

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Yes, I have had good results with headhunters in ZM. Their innate infiltrate frees up mutable tactics (I often choose counter attack, combined with reactionary fire in ZM it’s pretty useful).

Although, I find the VP loss of the leviathanal very punishing. A more efficient way to use your list would be to run it as a ZM RoW or even swap the breachers for veterans and run chosen duty with Skorr (or even a standard delegatus). You only need one troop selection in ZM and elites score as well. Vets are more points efficient than breachers and bring more attacks/specialist CC weapons and have cheaper access to MB, albeit at the cost of durability (and not looking as awesome).

Cadmus
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#1795
Excessus

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With local events starting up again I'm dusting off my old Alpha Legion, and I'm going for my old coils list with the ultra suzys.

...but what are other people running with coils? Are the IW termies still a popular option?
"Deception IS the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

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#1796
Imren

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With local events starting up again I'm dusting off my old Alpha Legion, and I'm going for my old coils list with the ultra suzys.

...but what are other people running with coils? Are the IW termies still a popular option?

you can go the shooty list or the CC list:

  • Shooty list:
    • Alpharius
    • 10x siege tyrants
    • 1x master of signal
    • 10x Volkite HSS
    • 3x laser rapiers.
    • 3x Javelins with missile launchers and multimelta.
    • 5x Skyslayer Scimitar squad (plasma cannon)
    •  
    • Everybody gets Preferred enemy everything. siege tyrants have Alpharius in the squad, so with BS5  and reroll 1's they will hit with every shot, same for the 10x Volkite HSS with the MoS attached to them. Skyslayers are good too with plasma cannon since they have 2+ save so if the plasmacannon overheat (they overheat only on a roll of 2 on the first roll) they still have a good chance of surviving. Laser rapiers have LA (AL) rule so you can redeploy them to get good shots at enemy vehicles turn one (most likely you will go first with Alpharius). Also with this list you will have to go with infiltrate as mutable tactic.
  • CC list:
    • Dynat
    • 8x suzerains (2x with TH)
    • 3x apothecary (one footslogging with suzerains, the other two with jump packs to accompany the assault squad)
    • 1x dreadclaw OR drill. if you go drill then you can fit 10x suzerains together with Dynat and the footslogging apotechary.
    • 2x assault squads 15x each with 3x power axes.
    • 10x Tactical squad in rhino with multimelta
    • 10x plasma support squad that deepstrikes in thanks to Dynat (good for picking enemy footslogging units turn one). you can go with meltaguns to if facing a vehicle heavy enemy list.
    •  
    • I would fill up the list up to 2500p or 3000p with javelins and scimitars, perhaps a Fire raptor as well since you will most likely face flyers at such point levels. The advantage with this list that you can choose your mutable tactic since everything can deep strike or are in transports.


#1797
Chaeron

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With local events starting up again I'm dusting off my old Alpha Legion, and I'm going for my old coils list with the ultra suzys.

...but what are other people running with coils? Are the IW termies still a popular option?

A touch belated, but I’m keen to get one up and running: the Siege Tyrants do seem like a brilliant option, and I think they’d be top of a future list.

 

In exploring others Coils builds, I think my debate would be whether Alpharius and Dynat would be overkill, but I love the thought of it. I’m considering planning a solid 3k list to build towards, with the usual view of making it thematic and different to any of my other Heresy projects. I’d definitely be interested to see what others had done and were doing! I like the options Imren suggested, but I’d probably go for a bit of a hybrid…


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#1798
Excessus

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My plans are all messed up, I need to run a 3,5k Leviathan list. I can borrow some warhounds but my AL "allies" detatchment will need to be constructed...but then I can't use the coils...woe is me tongue.png


"Deception IS the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

Alpha Legion Cell #379, Thousand Sons and other friends - The corruption of cell #379
The Serpent's Lair - Alpha Legion Forum
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#1799
Imren

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My plans are all messed up, I need to run a 3,5k Leviathan list. I can borrow some warhounds but my AL "allies" detatchment will need to be constructed...but then I can't use the coils...woe is me tongue.png

At 3,5k points I'd go for a shooty list with Alpharius, siege tyrants HSS volkite etc. Fill up with javelins and scimitars for mobile heavy weapons. Even if you face titans/LoW tanks those are usually not a problem that some infiltrating/deep striking melta vets or meltabomb equipped infantry cannot solve.

 

I presume this is for Scandus :)


Edited by Imren, 20 September 2021 - 06:43 AM.

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