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Imperial Fists Tactics

Imperial Fists Legion

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#1
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So while this could serve as a general IF tactics post, I have some questions of my own :


Since we get +1BS with our Legion Rules, has anyone had/tried running Recon Squads and what kind of success have they had? Obviously you'd be running them with bolters to benefit from the rule.
Would you run them with with recon armor for infiltrate and use them as beefier scouts from 40k and alpha strike like its nobodies business or keep PA and make them slightly tougher? Is it even worth considering them?

Heavy Support Squads : How would you gear them if at all use them? Continual preference of Autocannon, Culverin and Missle or would the HB be worth considering? This is also dependent on what game type : ZM, sub 2k, above 2k, etc. Note that they also get Tank Hunter with legion rules.

Templar Squads : Since Sigismund Makes them Troops, how would you put them to work? I thought of using them as Troop Culling units while the rest of the list would be built around anti-armor and fire support. But would a rhino be good enough as a transport or is something that pricey a guaranteed Land Raider'd unit? While Apothecaries would help, how much help would they actually provide?

Solarite Power Gauntlet Vs Thunderhammer. Both have more or less the same profile, the gauntlet having AP1 but the Hammer Concussive. Thinking about it I'd focus the Sol Glove on Anti vehicle and the Hammer on Characters/infantry. What other uses beyond those could you see them being put to?

Jetbike Squads : do they benefit from the +BS since theyre using HB? If so how much does that affect them? It seems counter-intuitive to be using jetbikes/bikes/flyers of any kind as IF for me, but since this a Legion...

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#2
TemujinZero

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The Templars are quite an extreme unit, as they completely annihilate power armour, but are pretty useless against 2+ armour. A 5 man squad in a land raider is plenty to flatten even a large tactical squad. I would hesitate to field them without the land raider, since you really need to choose your battles with them, so they kind of need that assault ramp.

Sigismund compliments them in many ways, except that he wants to be gunning directly for the enemy warlord, who might well be sitting in a nasty terminator bodyguard that the Templars will struggle to hurt. Splitting Sigismund from the unit might be wise in this situation.

#3
Hand of Sigismund

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Also sol gauntlets are not specialist weapon like hammers so you could get a dual wielding attks off them and sense they are x2 str why not take them they'll insta kill none EW marines.

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I have a 1500 pt game coming up and I am thinking about running some Phalanx Warders and see that they are capable of.

 

Fury of the legion attacks are nasty but with +1 BS they are potentially more so.


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#5
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Bs5 fury of the legion terrifies most things that don't have AV11 or higher.

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I have a 1500 pt game coming up and I am thinking about running some Phalanx Warders and see that they are capable of.

 

Fury of the legion attacks are nasty but with +1 BS they are potentially more so.

 

I will be interested to see how the Warders go. They are a great idea but their load out dont match their rules very well, the ability for all of them to take Power Axes then defeats the purpose of them getting an Initiative boost in formation.



#7
Phalanx Warder

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I have a 1500 pt game coming up and I am thinking about running some Phalanx Warders and see that they are capable of.
 
Fury of the legion attacks are nasty but with +1 BS they are potentially more so.

 
I will be interested to see how the Warders go. They are a great idea but their load out dont match their rules very well, the ability for all of them to take Power Axes then defeats the purpose of them getting an Initiative boost in formation.

I hope that this will get a FAQ and that the entry is just wrong, but then again....

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#8
UltraCaptain

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Maybe they did a brainfart, and expexted the initiative to count with axes, as to give them 2 and over power fist like weaponry. That might make them worth their price if so.

But i do not see their speciality, purpose or anything they do better than normal breachers

#9
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That is my sticking point, they are over priced Breacher unit unless you make the axes hit at the models Initiative, though the Hammer of Wrath attack into the assault could have this uses or you could use it to support other units in the assault/close combat, that may be an effective use but a little to specific for my tastes!


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#10
Ion

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Is the Stone Gauntlet RoW worth considering?


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#11
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I think that two big blobs of tactical marines with bolters supported by an apothecary and an AA sgt would do wonders for an IF list.


And while the loss of deep striking in a stone gauntlet RoW is lamentable, footslogging some terminators might not be a bad idea. Just run a big squad of ten with 4/5 vigil shields, 2 with assault cannons, and the rest bolters to gain that nice BS5. T5 terminators (in cataphractii armor) would be nuts.


Though it doesn't make sense that there's a rule called shield charge, when you can't benefit from it if you charge. Go figure
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#12
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A squad of T5 terminators are brutal, I played a squad of nine with Alexis Polux in there and they survived a LOT of incoming fire. The main problem of the list is that it is very costly to field, with your first two compulsary units being priced at over 500pts for the two min sized squads, ideally you want bigger squads to really take advatange of the discounted additional marine cost.



#13
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Honestly if you do run Stone Gauntlet and use Shield Terminators, the 3++ overrides the 4+ of Cataphractii so I'd say run them in  normal (tartaros / indomnitus) Terminator armor so that they can at least run for a bit more mobility. Though slow and purposeful does fit the theme of the RoW especially if you make it a moving shield line with phalanx/normal breachers and Storm Shield Terminators. Maybe even Shield Templars too - since they can take combat shields.


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Honestly I've been pouring over the rules for the Phalanx Warders and...uh... still not impressed. A squad of 20 with some of the more interesting special weapons in their options might be nice, but... they don't seem to justify their points. Regular breacher squads seem to be the way to go IMO, if you're going to take that sort of thing.

 

In order to get full legion rules benefits, regular tactical squads seem to be the way to go with this.


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#15
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I'm contemplating getting some breacher squads myself, and have been giving it a bit of thought lately.

Phalanx Wardens with an attached Apothecary and Techmarine are a great defensive unit. After all, they get hardened armour (re-roll saves vs template/blast) 5++/6++ with the boarding shields, T5 with the Stone Gauntlet RoW, the Apothecary gives them FNP, and the Techmarines Rad grenades make enemy -1T.

These are definitely on my wish list.
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#16
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Honestly I've been pouring over the rules for the Phalanx Warders and...uh... still not impressed. A squad of 20 with some of the more interesting special weapons in their options might be nice, but... they don't seem to justify their points. Regular breacher squads seem to be the way to go IMO, if you're going to take that sort of thing.

 

In order to get full legion rules benefits, regular tactical squads seem to be the way to go with this.

This is sadly true, both the Phalanx and Normal Breachers are rather overcosted for what they bring. Though I've read on this board that some people have been getting consistent and promising results with them in Zone Mortalis.


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Honestly if you do run Stone Gauntlet and use Shield Terminators, the 3++ overrides the 4+ of Cataphractii so I'd say run them in  normal (tartaros / indomnitus) Terminator armor so that they can at least run for a bit more mobility. Though slow and purposeful does fit the theme of the RoW especially if you make it a moving shield line with phalanx/normal breachers and Storm Shield Terminators. Maybe even Shield Templars too - since they can take combat shields.

 

It depends on how tight you are for points, putting Storm Shields on other patterns is more expensive than putting it on Cataphractii.



#18
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Honestly if you do run Stone Gauntlet and use Shield Terminators, the 3++ overrides the 4+ of Cataphractii so I'd say run them in  normal (tartaros / indomnitus) Terminator armor so that they can at least run for a bit more mobility. Though slow and purposeful does fit the theme of the RoW especially if you make it a moving shield line with phalanx/normal breachers and Storm Shield Terminators. Maybe even Shield Templars too - since they can take combat shields.

 

It depends on how tight you are for points, putting Storm Shields on other patterns is more expensive than putting it on Cataphractii.

 

 

Reading the Entries for units that can take either suit and : there's no difference in cost. For a Preator its either standard or Cataphractii for 35pts, same with the consul. For Terminator Squads its free but all of them need to have the same suit type. This is as per Betrayal, haven't yet gotten my Crusade Army books yet so that might've changed but I doubt it.

 

Since the Storm Shield's invulnerable save overrides the improved save of the Cataphractii suit, I'd choose Tartaros or Indomnitus over the sexier suit just for more mobility in the even of footslogging. 

 

Also Looking through extermination and the points cost for a Vigil Pattern Storm shield is the same all around.

 

 

Unless your talking about having several heavy weapons throughout the squad (up to 2 in 10 mans) then maybe since the Heavies will benefit more from Slow and Purposeful than an Assault Terminator Squad with various Melee weapons (like how I'm gearing them up).

 

Since they come standard with a Combi-Bolter and Power Weapon (axe, sword, maul, IIRC) you just end up paying the shields cost for a 3++ invul but loose your shooting.

 

 

The way I plan on running My terminators is : 5 Terminators, Chain Fist, Power Fist, TH on Sarge and 5x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield + Primus Medicae in Terminator armor, Solarite Power Gauntlet, Storm Shield all with Teleportation Transponders.


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#19
Dorns Templar

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Storm shields cost 10 points for Cataphractii, or 15 points for Tartaros/Indomitus.
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#20
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Hmmm guess I hadn't read the books as thoroughly as I thought I did. It would make sense that the slower moving units would get it for cheaper. thanks for enlightening me Longfang 


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#21
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Hmmm guess I hadn't read the books as thoroughly as I thought I did. It would make sense that the slower moving units would get it for cheaper. thanks for enlightening me Longfang 

 

Isn't the points break more to do with the fact that the Cataphractii have a 4++ anyway, so it's less of an upgrade for them? I think that's the reason, rather than having anything to do with the speed of the unit. :)



#22
Joeyray

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What is the brethren's thoughts on using support squads with Autocannons to soften up units then sending Polux with a squad of "Heavies" (Prob Breachers) to finish them off? 


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#23
Phalanx Warder

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So after 5 or so games I will provide a couple of points that I have learned about our beloved fists:

 

RoW: Gauntlet of stone. Not had the chance to use this RoW but I have 10 more breachers on the work bench primed white and need to be done to compete in a ZM campaign I have coming up so I can run GoS. My gut feeling tells me that it will be highly effective for my current play style in regular and ZM games more to follow once I get to use it.

 

Breachers: I have heard from many on this board that they are a poor choice as a troop option due to the lack of FotL attack, I can agree that this is a drawback but not a deal breaker given our buffs as Imperial Fists (+1 BS = more wounds) and the ability to run 1 special weapon per 5 marines allows some flexibility that is not afforded to the venerable Tactical Squad. Oh I almost forgot to mention the reroll failed armor saves against blast weapons and the Invo save that these guys have! Coupled with the RoW these guys become quite conundrum if you have to assault them. Bottom line in CC 20 breachers with toughness 5 will beat 20 Tactical marines (without the extra CCW and I think that it would be close with them) in CC. throw in an apothecary and this unit with LA:IF is just plain nasty but expensive.

.

Tactical Marines: not much to say, they gain FotL attacks and at BS-5 we know how that will go they are however less durable than breachers.

Alexis Polox: This Astartes is a CC power house, his special rules don’t lend itself to our RoW unless you don’t mind not having one unit be able to deep strike (fine with me), I have not managed to get off is at initiative attacks but I am trying!

 

Templar Brethren: they are beasts in CC but you need them in CC, I managed to chew through 10 destroyers on my charge (with 7) and they were left in the open to be gunned down the next turn. I was proxying these guys but I will hold off until FW releases the models, given the love that the EC swordsmen received I expect these to be beautiful models that I will probably buy too many of.

 

I have to say we got it good from forgeworld, I have struggled to win historically with 40k but that trend has reversed I am glad to say!


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#24
Sanct

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The bias against breachers is more that a 20 man squad is 150pts more than 20 tactical dudes.  That is 3 tacticals to every 2 breachers.



#25
Phalanx Warder

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How expensive they are is not in dispute brother, I am making the argument that with our RoW Breachers are an attractive choice. 20 toughness 5 marines with an invulnerable save, re-roll armor saves against blast weaponry scares me more than a tactical squad, add in an apothecary and its plain nasty

Edited by Battle8rother, 23 September 2014 - 03:36 AM.

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