[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

So I've started to play IF for awhile without an inherent Templar theme which means no named characters. I have a couple games lined up for tomorrow... Excited !

[Terminus]

Legion Terminator Squad (895pts) [Chainfist, 9x Legion Terminators, Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Thunderhammer, 9x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

Cheater! ;)

[Tiger9gamer]

can somebody with experience help me out? I want to know what's better anti-tank (outside of a sicaran venator)

 

a full Quad mortor battery with shatter shells and a master of signals

 

or

 

a full heavy suport squad with missile launchers?

[Flint13]

The quad mortar battery, easily.

 

They're more durable, more customizable, and with the MoS boost to BS5, more accurate.

[pathatrick]

Why not both? IF gets tank hunters on HWS so even a squad of missile launchers has a chance, except for a flare shield.

[Charlo]

Missile are... Just terrible I'm afraid. They'll do work against light targets, but they aren't worth a hotly-contested Heavy Support slot for that.

 

Quads are much better purely through points to power ratio. You probably don't even need a master of signal for them.

[Tiger9gamer]

Missile are... Just terrible I'm afraid. They'll do work against light targets, but they aren't worth a hotly-contested Heavy Support slot for that.

 

Quads are much better purely through points to power ratio. You probably don't even need a master of signal for them.

 

I was afraid of that for the support team =( are they better with autocannons or something?

[Slips]

The only point they really become viable is with Lascannons thanks to free Tank Hunters and even then you have cheaper options that do the job just as well while not being MEQ.

[Charlo]

5 LC dudes in a bunker w/ammo dump or something is nice enough.

[Terminus]

The only heavy support squads I would use are Culverins.

[Slips]

40 S6 Tank Hunter Shots aren't bad. Can definitely scare any flyers even if they're snap firing.

[Tiger9gamer]

so are just five lascannon guys enough then? and what's the alternative? 

[Charlo]

so are just five lascannon guys enough then? and what's the alternative? 

 

Well 5 in a Bunker gives you on average...

 

2-3 Glance/ Pen on AV 14.

 

(I think, quick dirty math-hammer at work)

[Terminus]

40 S6 Tank Hunter Shots aren't bad. Can definitely scare any flyers even if they're snap firing.

40 S6 deflagrate shots will make almost anything sit up and take notice. A volley will take care of 4-5 terminators with average dice.

[Slips]

 

40 S6 Tank Hunter Shots aren't bad. Can definitely scare any flyers even if they're snap firing.

40 S6 deflagrate shots will make almost anything sit up and take notice. A volley will take care of 4-5 terminators with average dice.

 

Also great for Deflaging Blobs of 5+ Saves or worse especially with T3 meaning they'd get ID'd and have no FNP

[Lord Blackwood]

If you have 1700 points to work with and 3 knights as allies in  your list , how would YOU  allocate those 1700 points 

[Terminus]

More Knights?

 

Also great for Deflaging Blobs of 5+ Saves or worse especially with T3 meaning they'd get ID'd and have no FNP

Yes, this too, a natural counter to zealot rabble and the like. Although to be fair most of my experiments with the culverins squad involve an 8-strong unit in a bunker with ammo stores. I don't get to live the 40 shot dream, but the rerolling 1s helps.

[Lord Blackwood]

While I  own enough knights to run the list as 3k of just knights , Id rather take  imperial fists stuff  as well  since I  dont want the games to be horribly oppressive for my opponents. 

I was thinking something like this would be passable 

+++ Infantry  (3000pts) +++
 
++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Age of Darkness) (1700pts) ++
 
+ HQ (165pts) +
 
Alexis Polux (165pts) [Master of the Legion]
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
 
+ Troops (340pts) +
 
Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour]
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
 
Legion Tactical Squad (170pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour]
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
 
+ Elites (975pts) +
 
Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (210pts) [shatter Shell]
Legion Rapier Quad Launcher
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
Legion Rapier Quad Launcher
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
Legion Rapier Quad Launcher
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
 
Legion Terminator Squad (765pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 2x Chainfist, Legion Terminator Sergeant, 9x Legion Terminators, 6x Power Fist, Reaper Autocannon]
Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]
Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]
 
+ Heavy Support (220pts) +
 
Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (220pts) [Aiolos Missile Launcher]
 
+ Legion +
 
Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]
 
++ Questoris Knight Crusade Army (Allied Detachment) (1300pts) ++
 
+ HQ (485pts) +
 
Seneschal (485pts) [Cerastus Knight-Atrapos]
 
+ Troops (815pts) +
 
Scion Martial (400pts) [Cerastus Knight-Lancer]
 
Scion Martial (415pts) [Cerastus Knight-Acheron]
 
 

[Terminus]

With only 1700 points to play with, I think going with no Rite of War is a mistake. You don't want to be spending precious points on tactical marines unless you're running Orbital Assault. I am not super fond of the new Pride of the Legion, but I think a pair of BS5 marksmen veteran squads would serve you well.  You could even keep the Terminator squad as another troop choice, so your opponent would have to kill them and all the Veterans before claiming the 2 VPs.  Regarding the terminators, why no shields if you aren't going to be giving them combi-weapons? 

[Lord Blackwood]

I agree the tac marines arent terribly appealing to me either , I think  pride would work , but it would require taking the knight detachment as the main detachment and the fists as allies to it. which infact may  be the better direction to go  ill tinker with it some more. 

[Lord Blackwood]

So Swapping the primary and allied detachment leads me to having  some strange breakpoints as far as points spent goes  
 

+++ Infantry  (3000pts) +++

 

++ Questoris Knight Crusade Army (Questoris Knight Crusade Army) (1300pts) ++

 

+ HQ (485pts) +

 

Seneschal (485pts) [Cerastus Knight-Atrapos]

 

+ Troops (815pts) +

 

Scion Martial (400pts) [Cerastus Knight-Lancer]

 

Scion Martial (415pts) [Cerastus Knight-Acheron]

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Allied Detachment) (1700pts) ++

 

+ HQ (230pts) +

 

Sigismund (230pts)

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

+ Elites (210pts) +

 

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (210pts) [shatter Shell]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Troops (935pts) +

 

Legion Terminator Squad (675pts) [4x Legion Terminators, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 4x Thunderhammer, 4x Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

Legion Spartan Assault Tank [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]

Legion Terminator Sergeant [Thunderhammer, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield]

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (260pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Marksmen]

Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade]

Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon]

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Heavy Support (325pts) +

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (325pts)

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Storm Cannon, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]

 

 

I figure i should touch on the fact that as far as I know the next event will be 6k ( 2 players at 3k )  a side , with partners you dont get to choose beforehand Atleast thats my understanding of things.  


Though the more  I look at that the more I  worry that the  Leviathan is just ... like overkill  on  walkers 
This variant here would require me to purchase a few Speeders 
 

+++ Infantry  (3000pts) +++

 

++ Questoris Knight Crusade Army (Questoris Knight Crusade Army) (1310pts) ++

 

+ HQ (495pts) +

 

Seneschal (495pts)

Cerastus Knight-Atrapos [Occular Augmetics]

 

+ Troops (815pts) +

 

Scion Martial (415pts) [Cerastus Knight-Acheron]

 

Scion Martial (400pts) [Cerastus Knight-Lancer]

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Allied Detachment) (1690pts) ++

 

+ HQ (230pts) +

 

Sigismund (230pts)

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

+ Elites (210pts) +

 

Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery (210pts) [shatter Shell]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

Legion Rapier Quad Launcher

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Troops (650pts) +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (280pts) [2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Marksmen, Nuncio-Vox]

Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Fist]

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Templar Brethren (370pts) [9x Combat Shield, Nuncio-vox, 9x Templar Brethren]

Chapter Champion [Combat Shield, Solarite Power Gauntlet]

Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Fast Attack (225pts) +

 

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron (225pts)

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [2x Hunter-killer Missiles, Multi-melta]

 

+ Heavy Support (375pts) +

 

Legion Spartan Assault Tank (375pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [Loyalist, VII: Imperial Fists]

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bladewolf

[K3nn3rs]

I got an answer from FW regarding Vigil pattern storm shields and Tartaros terminator armour:

 

hi,

Thank you for your email. The Imperial Fists were the one of the first Legions to get the Indomitus Pattern Terminator armour ( 40k terminator Armour) and the Vigil Pattern storm Shields are what evolve in to the 40k storm shields. It is for this reason that they can only use normal terminator armour ( indomitus) or Cataphractii Terminator Armour, they don't use Tartaros terminator Armour, which is why the Vigil Pattern Storm shield can't be fitted to it.

 

Not particuallary happy with the response, makes little sense to me and whilst I've challenged them I expect the decision to stand.

 

So... What terminator pattern would you take as body guards for characters?

 

I'm leaning toward cataphractii as its a cheaper upgrade for storm shields (but loose the ability to run), for me it looks cooler and purpose built shields are coming out soon.

[Terminus]

See, it always kind of made fluff sense to me.  Tartaros armor is super advanced and focuses on mobility, so strapping a giant experimental force shield onto it probably undoes all of the work done to make it more mobile.  At this point there is little to challenge, the rules as written are unambiguous, but as Slips pointed out a few times, since they actually had a few models on display in Tartaros with vigil shields, maybe they will change their mind once the upgrade packs are released. q

[Charlo]

I feel sorry this is the case, especially for the likes of Bladewolf and his awesome Templar Terms, but thems the rules I guess and justified with fluff.

 

From a game design stand point, it did make fist Tartaros the best terminators for mobility, survivability and sweeping - but again it was essentially their unique thing.

 

Maybe Huscarls will be this config...

 

It still annoys me that indomitus has literally no redeeming qualities though. Maybe by the Siege they'll get a cool special rule.

[Soldier of Dorn]

I got an answer from FW regarding Vigil pattern storm shields and Tartaros terminator armour:

 

hi,

Thank you for your email. The Imperial Fists were the one of the first Legions to get the Indomitus Pattern Terminator armour ( 40k terminator Armour) and the Vigil Pattern storm Shields are what evolve in to the 40k storm shields. It is for this reason that they can only use normal terminator armour ( indomitus) or Cataphractii Terminator Armour, they don't use Tartaros terminator Armour, which is why the Vigil Pattern Storm shield can't be fitted to it.

 

Yeah, I'm calling B.S. on that. They don't use goddamn Tartaros pattern armor? To quote Extermination, pg. 62: "The Imperial Fists were also amongst the strongest proponents of the development of Tactical Dreadnought Armour, and fielded a large number of squads equipped in all patterns of the so-called Terminator armour. Notably, they were also amongst the first to field significant numbers of the Indominus pattern produced by the forges of Deimos" (emphasis mine.) I know this is just a fluff section, and that it may not have any impact on the actual game, but I believe that Tartaros does fall within the parameters of "all patterns." I mean, I'll accept the decision, and abide by it, but this email, as much as I want to respect something from Forge World, is bloody nonsense.

 

Sorry if I come across as a bit aggressive, but I sincerely have never, ever, had this kind of nerd rage all because of something GW or FW has done (they usually just make me disappointed.) and I had to get it out of my system.