[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Unholyechoes]

Ordered my Iliastus Assault Cannons today!

[Reyner]

But I love the idea of Deepstriking breachers, there away to make that happen outside of the HSF?

You could do that with Alexis Polux's Warlord Trait providing you don't use the Stone Gauntlet Rite of War

 

edit: you can only deep strike 1 squad I think with the Trait.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Reyner

[Unholyechoes]

 

 

But I love the idea of Deepstriking breachers, there away to make that happen outside of the HSF?

You could do that with Alexis Polux's Warlord Trait providing you don't use the Stone Gauntlet Rite of War

 

edit: you can only deep strike 1 squad I think with the Trait.

Speaking of The Crimson Fist, they are going to have to change him fairly significantly if/when they switch 30k to 8th. They revealed today that Power Fists strike at the same time as everyone else now with a -1 to hit mofifier.

[Slips]

Hes probably going to be able to ignore that -1 penalty or something. He was already decent as a combat character mostly held back due to his low # of attacks but his S10 Master-Crafted Power Fist at I5 was already a thing he could do.

 

I'm more curious to see how Sigismund will be now that there are no longer challenges (as far as we know) for his Instant Death. Does that mean hes going to be dishing out Mortal Wounds at all times? Would be pretty nifty.

 

Additionally, our Terminators, if Storm Shields keep their 3++, just got a bit tougher than others with how the AP system is changing no longer being an "all or nothing" type deal....also more wounds!...hopefully.

• -1 all 2+ saves go to 3+, no real change since 2++'s are pretty much nonexistant in 30k.
• -2, 2+s go to 4+ but, with a 3++, we still get a 3+ save.
• -3, 2+s go to 5+ ours are still 3++ and Cataphractii/Halo Invuln kicks in for a 4++
• -4, 2+s to to 6+ and Indomitus/Tartaros/Refractor/Combat/Boarding Invulns kick in for a 5++

AND, if we can assault from Deepstrike, Hammerfall just got a whole lot less pathetically disappointing + our termies get even better if not all termies can DS in 30k like it currently is.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Slipstreams

[Brother Captain Spud]

Second question:

 

What are people's thoughts on the Mastodon?

 

I'm thinking of using it to add some much needed protection & mobility to my SG list but I think it might be a massively points sink.

 

Does anyone have much experience with it?

Ive been wondering this too. I got one as i love the model so i'm not too concerned about game performance although i am yet to build it.

 

I do have a feeling that it'll be very effective under some mission parameters (i.e. where needing to take a well defended strong point is critical) but less so in games focused on wiping out the other army as it just doesnt have a lot of kill power conpared to other super heavies.

[Unholyechoes]

Hes probably going to be able to ignore that -1 penalty or something. He was already decent as a combat character mostly held back due to his low # of attacks but his S10 Master-Crafted Power Fist at I5 was already a thing he could do.

 

I'm more curious to see how Sigismund will be now that there are no longer challenges (as far as we know) for his Instant Death. Does that mean hes going to be dishing out Mortal Wounds at all times? Would be pretty nifty.

 

Additionally, our Terminators, if Storm Shields keep their 3++, just got a bit tougher than others with how the AP system is changing no longer being an "all or nothing" type deal....also more wounds!...hopefully.

• -1 all 2+ saves go to 3+, no real change since 2++'s are pretty much nonexistant in 30k.
• -2, 2+s go to 4+ but, with a 3++, we still get a 3+ save.
• -3, 2+s go to 5+ ours are still 3++ and Cataphractii/Halo Invuln kicks in for a 4++
• -4, 2+s to to 6+ and Indomitus/Tartaros/Refractor/Combat/Boarding Invulns kick in for a 5++

AND, if we can assault from Deepstrike, Hammerfall just got a whole lot less pathetically disappointing + our termies get even better if not all termies can DS in 30k like it currently is.

Everyone is getting a good fisting now! I was going to put a couple power swords in my Cataphractii squad, but no longer see a reason not to go for pure fisty.

[Gorgoff]

Hes probably going to be able to ignore that -1 penalty or something. He was already decent as a combat character mostly held back due to his low # of attacks but his S10 Master-Crafted Power Fist at I5 was already a thing he could do.

Decent?

He is one of the most feared character in our gaming group having punched time and again almost any sort of character into a bloody pulp.

Awesome miniature and really good rules.

Love it.

[K3nn3rs]

 

Hes probably going to be able to ignore that -1 penalty or something. He was already decent as a combat character mostly held back due to his low # of attacks but his S10 Master-Crafted Power Fist at I5 was already a thing he could do.

 

I'm more curious to see how Sigismund will be now that there are no longer challenges (as far as we know) for his Instant Death. Does that mean hes going to be dishing out Mortal Wounds at all times? Would be pretty nifty.

 

Additionally, our Terminators, if Storm Shields keep their 3++, just got a bit tougher than others with how the AP system is changing no longer being an "all or nothing" type deal....also more wounds!...hopefully.

• -1 all 2+ saves go to 3+, no real change since 2++'s are pretty much nonexistant in 30k.
• -2, 2+s go to 4+ but, with a 3++, we still get a 3+ save.
• -3, 2+s go to 5+ ours are still 3++ and Cataphractii/Halo Invuln kicks in for a 4++
• -4, 2+s to to 6+ and Indomitus/Tartaros/Refractor/Combat/Boarding Invulns kick in for a 5++

AND, if we can assault from Deepstrike, Hammerfall just got a whole lot less pathetically disappointing + our termies get even better if not all termies can DS in 30k like it currently is.

Everyone is getting a good fisting now! I was going to put a couple power swords in my Cataphractii squad, but no longer see a reason not to go for pure fisty.

For now we can assume 2W, hitting on 3+ and no fear of being swept - making legion terminators with SS (especially in SG) really useful.

 

I've been taking termie command squads to get around these issues.

 

I think power weapons are pretty viable gaming wise and AND look great with shields!

 

I'm looking forward to the rules for lightning claws - -3 rend and reroll to wound?!?

 

The new transport rules also make Spartans even better (assumed increased survivability, increased damage output and flexible transport options!)

[Unholyechoes]

Yeah, it looks like the Spartan is going to be ridiculous.

[almightyjesus55]

If Templars keep their +1 S for charging they're gonna kick ass with their -3 Pswords. 20 templar and Sigs riding on a Spartan is now a reality as well. 

[Gorgoff]

If Templars keep their +1 S for charging they're gonna kick ass with their -3 Pswords. 20 templar and Sigs riding on a Spartan is now a reality as well.

We have to wait and see how good characters will be since they can always be targeted seperatly in CC.

[Elzender]

Regarding Sigismund, maybe he'll only inflict mortal wounds against characters?

 

Changes to power swords have a curious effect on templar brethren, becoming better at facing terminators (forcing them to use their invul) but slightly worse against power armour (6+ armour save, probably not very relevant but still better than no save at all).

[K3nn3rs]

Regarding Sigismund, maybe he'll only inflict mortal wounds against characters?

 

Changes to power swords have a curious effect on templar brethren, becoming better at facing terminators (forcing them to use their invul) but slightly worse against power armour (6+ armour save, probably not very relevant but still better than no save at all).

Which is an effect I'll take anyday!

 

Everything released so far indicates our elite will finally have their place in our forces!!

 

Fingers crossed Phalanx Wardens get some new rules or points to help balance them....

[Unholyechoes]

 

Regarding Sigismund, maybe he'll only inflict mortal wounds against characters?

 

Changes to power swords have a curious effect on templar brethren, becoming better at facing terminators (forcing them to use their invul) but slightly worse against power armour (6+ armour save, probably not very relevant but still better than no save at all).

Which is an effect I'll take anyday!

 

Everything released so far indicates our elite will finally have their place in our forces!!

 

Fingers crossed Phalanx Wardens get some new rules or points to help balance them....

Yeah, Phalanx Warders with Power Axes attacking first is a bad day, but with TEQ getting a 4+ and MEQ getting a 5+ they still probably won't make it in many lists. Stormshield Terminators are still a better choice in my eyes.

[Elzender]

Regarding phalanx warders (and breachers too), it would be interesting to see a change in how their shields work, maybe reducing armour save modifiers of shooting attacks? It would help against middle AP weapons (although it also affecting high AP weapons could be considered too much), and it's not like the  current invulnerable save does anything against low AP firepower. Maybe I'd keep the +5 invulnerable in melee to show it is more of a case of parrying or blocking the attack.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention before, but my (WIP) legion champion with sword&board is a viable threat to other characters and 2+ units, yay .

Edited May 21, 2017 by Elzender

[Unholyechoes]

Regarding phalanx warders (and breachers too), it would be interesting to see a change in how their shields work, maybe reducing armour save modifiers of shooting attacks? It would help against middle AP weapons (although it also affecting high AP weapons could be considered too much), and it's not like the current invulnerable save does anything against low AP firepower. Maybe I'd keep the +5 invulnerable in melee to show it is more of a case of parrying or blocking the attack.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention before, but my (WIP) legion champion with sword&board is a viable threat to other characters and 2+ units, yay .

Yeah, the Power Sword is getting quite a boost with the way AP works in 8th.

[Brother Captain Spud]

Quick question gang. I just got Polux and i'm trying to figure out of he gets the +1 T for stone gauntlet ROW considering he has a storm shield, so long as he is within a unit and in coherency with breachers etc.

 

Cheers

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Well, he has Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists) as a rule and is equipped with a Storm Shield.

 

So, as per the Stone Gauntlet RoW description he qualifies for the bonus, yes.

[Brother Captain Spud]

I thought so but just wanted to confirm. Thank you

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Of course his 'Void Commander'  trait is entirely wasted in a Stone Gauntlet list though.

[Lord Blackwood]

That's an okay trade really. Especially in boarding actions where deep striking into walls is a real threat.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Reminds me of good ol' Spaceballs teleportation mishap ... 

[Gorgoff]

Reminds me of good ol' Spaceballs teleportation mishap ...

"Why hadn't anyone told me that I have such a big ass?!"

------Pollux-----

[Brother Captain Spud]

Of course his 'Void Commander' trait is entirely wasted in a Stone Gauntlet list though.

Why so? I was under the impression that this special rule overides the deepstrike restriction on SG. I've seen that claimed around the interwebz. Is this not so?

Edited June 11, 2017 by Brother Captain Spud

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

Of course his 'Void Commander' trait is entirely wasted in a Stone Gauntlet list though.

Why so? I was under the impression that this special rule overides the deepstrike restriction on SG. I've seen that claimed around the interwebz. Is this not so?

 

 

Because of  'Stone Gauntlet's'  restriction as described on p. 28 AoDL ?

 

Polux trait merely bestows the ability to Deep Strike on a unit, it doesn't override anything.