[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Charlo]

Wait wait wait, you have a Spartan in the list already? Perfect.

 

Command squad just improves the quality of the terminators as lot as they get WS5 and can issue/ accept challenges - which with a 2+/3++/5+++ makes them funny to tank things like enemy paragon blade preators while your own one minces a squad. Plus Fearless from the banner (massive in 30k).

 

Lascannons with Tank hunter are very strong, but I'd say you need a bunker and medic to keep them healthy.

 

Stone Gauntlet will indeed make your TDA & Breachers T5 as long as there is at least 3 models in the squad and they are in base to base, OR if you charge you get Hammer of Wrath, which is great too - but always take charges with breachers. BUT it imposes a limitation of you can't have more elites and fast attack than you have troops choices, so you'd need to be a touch careful. Command squads are HQ so that's another point for them too :D

[K3nn3rs]

I agree with everything Charlo has said.

I love my TDA SS Comd Sqd with all chain fists, supported by a tooled up praetor and Primus Medicae (all delivered a Spartan)

 

The only thing I'd add is that you need armoured ceramite and a flare shield on the Spartan - you've already invested a lot but those extra upgrades are worth every point!

 

You also don't need to be in base to base contact to get the T5 from SG but you do loose it on the turn you charge.

[Brother Captain Spud]

You also don't need to be in base to base contact to get the T5 from SG but you do loose it on the turn you charge.

Correct but i think its coherency with 2 other models so ypu kinda need to keep them packed together.

 

I love using SG with breachers and apothecary its such a great combo for survivability. Theres some people on here who trash talk it but i think its a good RoW although no good at sub 2000pt games as the tax you pay fpr breachers kills you on numbers of boots on the ground at that points level i find.

[Viridia]

Morning all, I'm looking for some input on how to field my Terminators. I want to field a Praetor in TT, with a Paragon Blade and volkite charger, alongside a group of nine other Tartaros Termies. I want to give them all Volkite chargers as well to give them firepower on the move, but I'm stumped as to how to arm them for CC. Please bear in mind I've not had the chance to play any games, and so I don't know what the current trend in my area is for HH gaming, so no help there I'm afraid.

[Slips]

In general, go for Power Fists with a smattering of Chain Fists. This solves a lot of problems you might encounter in CC:

• T4 or less units with FNP; the S8 of a Power Fist ignores that making them that much more vulnerable.
• T4 or less multiwound models; again, the S8 of a Power Fist causes you to double out their toughness meaning you instant death them.
• Ap2; you negate any and all armour saves meaning the target usually has to fall back on invulnerable saves which are VERY rarely a 2++
• S8 lets you possibly deal damage up to Av14; chain fists making it that much easier.

If you want Power Swords to kill 3+ Save marine units, Templar do it better.

 

Power Axes are the cheaper solution but all they do is give you AP2 and no other real benefit vs the Power Fist.

 

Most other units that can threaten Terminators will be striking at i1 so having a Thunder Hammer to concuss them isn't all that worth it UNLESS you're specifically going after Primarchs.

[Viridia]

Fair point, I hadn't considered that. Sounds like the start of a plan. Also, looking into sourcing Volkite Chargers for my termies is a pain. With the +1BS for their combi-bolters, is it worth keeping those instead?

[Charlo]

For the sake of not bloating the cost of each model 7points and saving you money AND the fact they get +1BS.

 

Yeah, probably.

 

Though you should probably take Combi-Plasma or something.

[Caillum]

Consider taking combi-weapons on your Imperial Fists Terminators. They can unload their plasma/melta at a juicy target, and then still have BS5 bolters after that (which are almost as good as BS4 combi-bolters). :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I always run a plasma blaster.

[Gorgoff]

I always run a plasma blaster.

I second that.

It is a nice thing to have. :)

[Brother Captain Spud]

I use a mix of Combi plasma and melta guns as this covers AT well too.

 

Plasma to zap hard to crack infantry or characters and melta for vehicles or walkers. While armoured ceramite will dent melta effectiveness, if ypu have three of them are likely going to punch a hole in the tank regardless.

[StruManChu]

Hello one and all!

 

I'm kind of trying to finally lock down my Imperial Fists list in anticipation of Dorn either being previewed in his full glory or being (hopefully) released at the Weekender in a couple of weeks. Basically, I'm trying to put together a semi-fluffly Siege of Terra-esque list for him and Siggie Ztardust to run with a pile of Termies or Templars, but I'm torn about what their ride should be. In an ideal world where money was no object, it'd obviously be the Aetos Dios, Dorn's pimped out Thunderhawk. However, I don't live in that world. 

 

The world I do live in has some extra cash leftover from my Christmas bonus though, which happily means I can afford a Mastodon. 

 

However, is a Mastodon even viable as a Dorn Bus? I'd obviously need to run a Primarch's Chosen list, so would I be better off with him and his entourage in a Spartan (Which I can basically afford three of for the price of the Mastodon) and choosing another, better Lord of War? I love the model, but I've let myself love expensive models from afar before when they're horrible point sinks or they just don't work. 

 

Have any of you run a Mastodon with the IF? Are they any good? It seems like it should be a good fit, but I just don't know if I can justify it yet.

[K3nn3rs]

I’m interested in the response to this as to me a Mastadon looks likes a significant points sink.

 

That said I also love the model and would love to run one with Dorn in an onslaught FOC, ideally with my Stone Gauntlet Breachers and termies (its implied in the new rule book that you don’t need your opponents permission to use the alt/ FoCs and the barrier to using both an alt FoC & RoW is gone).

 

Note you can’t run Primarchs Chosen and take another LoW.

 

Spartans are an effective option (I love mine) but there is a danger of turning your list into a one trick pony by taking; Primarch, supporting HQ, terminators all in an expensive transport. Especially as the meta has generally shifted and can now deal with single Spartans.

[StruManChu]

Many of those things are a big damn shame...

 

Didn't realise the LoW limitation on Primarch's Chosen. Been a while since I read up on the newer ones. It makes sense for game balance, but it also means that I'd need at least a 4.2k list instead of a 3k list to have both Dorn and a Mastodon, which is not impossible, but still. Boooooooo...

 

Definitely wouldn't be running less than two Spartans. I've been running an Onslaught Iron Hands list with two Spartans and two Fire Raptors, so I'm familiar with the ideas of Spartans getting blown up and the need to distract from your distraction carnifexes sometimes. Also, two Spartans would cost £220 instead of £310 for the Mastodon, so I'd have some change to grab some other stuff as well, which is nice.

 

On the face of it - 

 

• Hull Points - Mastodon has 10, two Spartans have 10 between them - No Points awarded
• Both have armour 14 all round. - No points awarded
• Spartans can take Flare Shields and Armoured Ceramite as upgrades, where the Mastodon is Super Heavy and has Armoured Ceramite and 2 x Void Shields free. +1 Mastodon
• Mastodon will take all incoming fire from enemy, two Spartans force opponents attention to be split. + 1 Spartans
• The shooting from two Spartans is just overall better than the Mastodon against MEQ (my meta) because of the short range of the Siege Melta Array. Not even worth discussing. + 1 Spartans
• Mastodon can transport 40 (inc. Dreads!) in separate squads. Two Spartans can transport 50 and are already split. + 1 Spartans
• Mastodon is 700 points base. Two Spartans would be 600 base, plus upgrades. Not much in it. No Points awarded
• Both are relatively expensive choices in crowded Force Org slots, both with arguably better options. Spartans could be a Dedicated Transport, but realistically only for Termies in an IF list. + .5 to Spartans
• Mastodon overwatches at BS2 while transporting at least one unit, and rolls D3+1 for it's heavy flamers. Spartans re-roll misses with twin/quad-linked weapons. Situational at best, so +.5 to Mastodon
• Mastodon gets extra bonuses against buildings/fortifications, but again, no one plays them in my meta, so no points awarded.

 

Obviously this is an incredibly high-level, and no overly detailed analysis, but the Spartans win by 2.

[Gorgoff]

Mastodon looks way cooler then two Spartans.

Check and mate, brother.

[Charlo]

If you run two Spartans, people will probably call you cheese.

 

If you run a Mastodon people will say "oh cool Mastodon bro!"

[LtDan]

Exactly. 30k is about what looks cool as well as tactics. Mastadon is cool.

[Brother Captain Spud]

Mastodon looks way cooler then two Spartans.

Check and mate, brother.

This is the truth of the matter.

[StruManChu]

Mastodon AND two Spartans?

[Brother Captain Spud]

Mastodon AND two Spartans?

Ooooohhhh yeah! Now thats how you bring on a nerdgasm.

 

Load the Mastadon with 20 breachers and 2 2xCC contemptors and the spartans with Terminators w TH&SS

[LtDan]

Yep think that's a plan haha

[Brother Captain Spud]

Now i was just listening to the eye of horus podcast which has done a FAQ session with Radio Free Istivan

 

pdf link -

https://archive.org/download/EOHRFIHH7THEDFAQ/EOH%20%26%20RFI%20HH%207TH%20ED%20FAQ.pdf

 

One of the things that raised my interest was the veiw on this: "In an Imperial Fists army can Tartaros Terminator armor equipped models take Vigil Pattern Storm

Shields and if so what is the points cost? (page 29 of the Legion Astartes Age of Darkness Army List)

A. Yes they may at the cost of 15 points per model with a Storm Shield."

 

Thoughts?

[Charlo]

Now i was just listening to the eye of horus podcast which has done a FAQ session with Radio Free Istivan

 

pdf link -

https://archive.org/download/EOHRFIHH7THEDFAQ/EOH%20%26%20RFI%20HH%207TH%20ED%20FAQ.pdf

 

One of the things that raised my interest was the veiw on this: "In an Imperial Fists army can Tartaros Terminator armor equipped models take Vigil Pattern Storm

Shields and if so what is the points cost? (page 29 of the Legion Astartes Age of Darkness Army List)

A. Yes they may at the cost of 15 points per model with a Storm Shield."

 

Thoughts?

 

Rules as written, they can't.

 

It's something that has been discussed to death but it says "Terminator Armour or Cataphractii Terminator armour", thus making the distinction that Tartaros is also another separate entity.

[Slips]

Now i was just listening to the eye of horus podcast which has done a FAQ session with Radio Free Istivan

 

pdf link -

https://archive.org/download/EOHRFIHH7THEDFAQ/EOH%20%26%20RFI%20HH%207TH%20ED%20FAQ.pdf

 

One of the things that raised my interest was the veiw on this: "In an Imperial Fists army can Tartaros Terminator armor equipped models take Vigil Pattern Storm

Shields and if so what is the points cost? (page 29 of the Legion Astartes Age of Darkness Army List)

A. Yes they may at the cost of 15 points per model with a Storm Shield."

 

Thoughts?

Trust me when I say I have a vested interest in this being true since I have 15 Tartaros Termies w/ Storm Shields but....

 

This isn't an official FAQ so its, at best, houserules which means you'd have to discuss this with your own local group to see if they want to bring any of these rulings onboard. Otherwise, its as Charlo said.

[Brother Captain Spud]

Yeah i thought it had been settled too but hearing this made me realise it had been settled in this forum, not in general so unless FW has actually FAQ'd this i guess its still actually open to debate/use.

 

The EoH/RFI guys make a good point that 15 points is not cheap so you are really paying a pretty high cost to do this.