[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[prime-alber]

Anyway I think that we are going to use vets over tacticals despite the downgrade. We just have to work in other combinations of weapons... :cuss , I need to pull out the flammers of one of my painted veteran squads...

Edited July 12, 2018 by Slips
Use the cuss emote or let the site's filters censor instead of self-censoring :)

[panascope]

For me, Outflank was always the more powerful half of the Marksmen rule. I used Combi-Plasmas which made the 4+ part not matter, and the Precision Shots were always incidental to what I was doing. But the board control offered by Outflank remains, which is why I feel basically unimpaired by this change. Sons of Horus combivets remain one of the best units in the game.

[Chaeron]

Fellow Cthonians, just thought I'd explore with the collective general thoughts on what people were currently running: I've started a force and so have been exploring the various Rites and possible builds, and have found a few options I'd like to lean towards, but wondered what people were using for events and other slightly more competitive gaming in recent times? 

 

I'm currently thinking that in terms of general collection diversity, it would be nice to utilise things I wouldn't typically within my other Heresy Legion army (Death Guard). That's easier when thinking about Horus, Justaerin, Reavers, etc. - but I wanted to also explore things like Javelins and Outriders, as a complete alternative. Very open to people's thoughts as to what might work, and what people find are working for them, and see what could be built towards! Look forward to discussing further.

[Charlo]

Outriders and assault squads work very nicely in black reaving, as do outflanking Vets etc.

[ProsperoStands]

I run both Javelins and Jet bikes in my Black Reaving and other RoW and they are wonderful. I find that the Black Reaving often lacks in the anti armor department and some melta bikes or las cannon speeders can help make up for this.

[Chaeron]

Outriders and assault squads work very nicely in black reaving, as do outflanking Vets etc.

I run both Javelins and Jet bikes in my Black Reaving and other RoW and they are wonderful. I find that the Black Reaving often lacks in the anti armor department and some melta bikes or las cannon speeders can help make up for this.

Thanks both: I’ve written towards the Black Reaving so far, and I think the only thing I’m really lacking is that anti-armour, so useful to know! I was thinking how to counteract, and figured a single tank might be enough, possibly just a generic Sicaran - but wasn’t sure if anyone thought there might be a better option? I’m hoping to run two Lascannon Javelins initially, but I think those Outriders longer term would be good too. The rest seems to mostly be Horus and Justaerin, so I will need some form of transport for him and his retinue though no doubt... Even if others can simply Deep Strike! Edited August 19, 2018 by Chaeron

[Charlo]

Attack Bikes with Multimeltas and Meltabombs. Really good at harassing back-line units too as they get good death dealer/ merciless fighters bonuses, getting stuck in first and being able to survive pretty well due to tankiness. You can supplement them with a combat tooled IC to give them some bite too. Make great enablers for the Rage Bonus from Cut Them Down. Apothecary on bike gives them FNP against anything not S10 too!

 

The bonuses of Black Reaving are very powerful, but the issue is a few of them are achieved just by Bringing the special characters (Troop Reavers are unlocked by Maloghurst, Deep Striking Justaerian are unlocked by Abby/ Horus) but obvviously not every game will have the damned Warmaster in!

[Chaeron]

Hadn’t even considered Attack Bikes, so that’s a great suggestion Charlo - thank you! I think with other options, it might not be possible to spare an IC (I’m leaning towards a Chaplain and MoS), but I’m sure their threat and potential ability would offer a useful distraction. (And might then mean I don’t go for a tank option!)

 

Ideally, it’d be great to use the Warmaster regularly, but of course that would depend on points limits. I think Abaddon would be the next in line as a direct replacement, but Maloghurst has a number of strengths as a viable alternative for builds. Excited to start some list building in more depth now!

[Charlo]

Don't forget Legion Champions can have Paragon Blades now, so a biker champ would be NASTY.

[Chaeron]

That would be! At the moment, I’m basically filling lists with Justaerin, so good to think about other options too. :lol:

 

I did wonder if anyone had used the Sicaran Omega? Was just looking at possible future expansions, and whilst I think two Sicarans would be a really nice option - I thought exploring that and the Venator might also be a good alternative choice (neither of which are currently in my DG force!). I don’t think I could squeeze them into 3k currently, but might offer something at a greater points limit later down the line.

[Charlo]

So the issue with the Omega is that it does hardly anything and costs a lot of points. The missile one is 10000x better.

[ProsperoStands]

Omega, looks cool does terrible.

Arcus, Looks terrible does AMAZING.

 

Honestly the Arcus is busted, hands down.

[panascope]

For the points, is Maloghurst the best non-Primarch character in the game? He provides so much - Vets/Reavers as troops, Master of the Legion, a Standard, and his Warlord trait makes him a scoring unit - it’s always more challenging to list build without him or Horus to amp up the troops choices.

[Gorgoff]

For the points, is Maloghurst the best non-Primarch character in the game? He provides so much - Vets/Reavers as troops, Master of the Legion, a Standard, and his Warlord trait makes him a scoring unit - it’s always more challenging to list build without him or Horus to amp up the troops choices.

Well, you could try to be succesful with Pride of the Legion or even without a ROW.

Special characters are a fluffy, cool addition to any army in the best case or a crutch for the players skills when used to often.

Which is quiet ironic since we speak about Mal. ;)

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Hi brothers. Question for you.

 

How many machine killer vets with combi meltas do you need to reliably kill a Spartan?

 

Vets are first turn dropping in. Assuming you’d drop behind the flare shield.

 

Can’t quite wrap my head around the numbers when armoured ceramite comes into play. Or when you land outside of the 6” multiplier for melta guns.

 

There’s a +1 bonus for penetration rolls from machine killers alongside the +2 damage table for AP1 on the meltas.

 

We’ve also got death dealers with the +1 bs.

 

I reckon maybe about 7 is a decent chance but mostly a gut feel more than anything else.

Edited August 21, 2018 by SMcaptainAurelius

[ProsperoStands]

10 Machine Killer vets. I do 8 with combi Melta including the Sgt. And two with normal Meltas.

 

I have used them twice to pop a spartan and both times they do it in one turn. Stacked with Machine Killer and Death Dealer, you have hand held Las Cannons what hit on 2's. You will pop a Spartan, or at least hurt it ALOT.

 

Toss on Melta bombs for good measure.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Thanks ProsperoStands.

 

Roughly how many penetrating hits are you getting there?

 

Wondering if it can be done with 6/7/8 marines

 

Reason being these power armoured bodies are unlikely to survive the next turn and so don’t want to load up on what’s essentially a unit for unit swap.

[Gorgoff]

1/6 miss and 1/3 will glance or penetrate.

Now take you calculus and do the math. :)

[Chaeron]

Having looked further, I definitely think the Arcus would be on a want list!

 

In terms of Maloghurst - would people include him over say a Chaplain or something similar, when Horus is present? Definitely has some great rules, but wondering how much he adds to a standard build.

 

SMcaptainAurelius - I would be building a squad like ProsperoStands too, if you’re going in for the kill - better over than under!

[Charlo]

Include Mal if Horus is there - he's his Equerry and has a lovely fearless banner for the back-field ;)

[prime-alber]

I don't use Reavers, only vets, so I have Mal only for they. If I can use Horus in my list I prefer to do it because I use Justaerin too, and in that case I can spend Mal points in a close combat monster Praetor

[Chaeron]

True, but the potential need for an MoS, and the thought of a jump-pack Chaplain with a fully tooled Reaver squad? So many exciting options and builds!

[ProsperoStands]

True, but the potential need for an MoS, and the thought of a jump-pack Chaplain with a fully tooled Reaver squad? So many exciting options and builds!

 

I do this, and let me tell you this squad will EAT almost anything. NOT terminators or anything with 2+ though unless you have a few power axes in there.

 

I tend to run a 15 man reaver squad, two power axes, a power fist on the chieftain, chain axes for everyone else and then a chaplain, praetor or both. Depending on the points that is. All with jump packs.

 

Yes Reavers are overpriced, but if you keep them low on upgrades they don't need and keep it to what you need to have to fulfill a role then they work out well.

[panascope]

 

For the points, is Maloghurst the best non-Primarch character in the game? He provides so much - Vets/Reavers as troops, Master of the Legion, a Standard, and his Warlord trait makes him a scoring unit - it’s always more challenging to list build without him or Horus to amp up the troops choices.

Well, you could try to be succesful with Pride of the Legion or even without a ROW.

Special characters are a fluffy, cool addition to any army in the best case or a crutch for the players skills when used to often.

Which is quiet ironic since we speak about Mal. ;)

I’m not saying that I use him in every list or that everyone should, simply that he provides so much for the points that he strikes me as being the best value in the game.

[SMcaptainAurelius]

For the Mal lobby here; do you ever find your CC units getting monstered by Praetors, or are your Vets, Reavers and Justaerin up to the task of having the primary HQ in the backfield?