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More 7th ed quirks and changes.

death company blood angels drop pod thunderfire cannon independent character

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#1
knife&fork

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By this time I'm sure most of us have gotten a few games in and spotted a lot of the small changes to this edition. I've only played about 10 games so far but every time something new pops up. 

 

Let's talk about some of the changes relevant to us but not yet brought up on this particular subforum.

 

 

Artillery: 

Not in our codex but available from forgeworld and allied detachments. As far as I can tell artillery can now move and fire seeing as they are a unit type of their own? Makes things like allied thunderfire cannons in pods an interesting pick.

 

Scoring Death company! (kinda):

As most of you know all DC units have the 'black rage' USR which grants the 'rage' USR and prevents scoring. Our transports however doesn't have 'black rage' meaning that they can score and have 'objective secured'.  This has also been noted by most.

What I haven't seen mentioned is that none of our independent characters have the 'black rage'. This means that a librarian, captain, priest or chaplain of any kind attached to the DC retains his scoring status, allowing the DC to take and hold objectives as long as this IC is alive. Just keep the IC in question within  3" of the objective.


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#2
SonOfThunder

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I'm not sure about the scorer character within the DC...even though I've played it like that once, but after reading the rules again, I've my doubts.

 

Units score. A chaplain that joins a unit is still his own independent unit AND part of another unit, or has he become part of the unit for all purposes?

 

In the first case the chaplain still scores, in the second case, since a DC unit doesn't score, the chaplain doesn't score either till he leaves the unit.



#3
Shaezus

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Looking at it this way - if an IC still counts as a seperate extra VP for kill points purposes, even when attached to a unit, then the opposite should still be true in terms of scoring.

Not sure but I don't think there's anything in the rules that say ICs lose scoring when attached to a non-scoring unit. Anyway as mentioned above they don't inherit the black rage rule so it seems perfectly reasonable to assume they still score.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

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#4
SonOfThunder

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That's why I scored with him the first time. I had tabled my opponent so the scoring part was just for giggles and hence nobody looked it up to make sure it'd work like that. If it had been important I'm sure there would have been different opinions :)

 

The rules don't mention anything about a scorer IC with a non-scoring unit. My current interpretation is that the IC becomes part of the unit, and doesn't count as a unit himself. Hence he doesn't score, the unit does. And since in this case the unit doesn't score, he doesn't either.

 

But yes, my intuitive use of this was that he still scores. I started doubting it when I started reading the rules.

 

What you say makes sense, about them being different units for VP consideration.

 

But still...If you cast invisibility, on some ASM with an attached priest, could you cast it only on the priest? Could you cast it only on the ASM? What would happen then?



#5
Xenith

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I'm not sure about the scorer character within the DC...even though I've played it like that once, but after reading the rules again, I've my doubts.

 

 

Why? The 6th ed warlord trait "Immovable Object" made your warlord scoring. This didn't go away just because he joined a unit.

 

The same applies for Trazyn the Infinite.


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#6
Gondow

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On another not on the Scoring DC.
DC Dread is superscoring asfar as I understand, since he doesn't have the black rage. yes/no?



#7
knife&fork

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On another not on the Scoring DC.
DC Dread is superscoring asfar as I understand, since he doesn't have the black rage. yes/no?

 

Nice catch! That is correct.

 

I think that now makes us the only ones with objective secured dreads! 


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#8
SonOfThunder

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The DC dread is ultrascoring all the way, it's the next addition to my army :)



#9
Shaezus

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And considering they now ignore any damage result of less than 5!

Got two of them in my pod list now :D

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#10
brother carc

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  • Independent Characters can now join one-model units (looking at you Corbulo and Mephiston)

 

Get off Iron arm with these two and you'll have a majority toughness 9 unit!

 

Any plasma the enemy send your way gets tanked on Corbulo's 2+ feel no pain, anything strength 8 or above gets LOS'd to Mephiston

 

  • Independent Characters can embark Battle Brothers transports

Azrael and Death Company in a drop pod for a 3+ armour, 4+ inv, 5+ FNP first turn threat



#11
knife&fork

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And considering they now ignore any damage result of less than 5!

Got two of them in my pod list now biggrin.png

 

They still go down super easy to glances and melta though. I really hate the hull point system dry.png

 

Maybe I should start running fists instead of talons just because of the psychological factor. The blender dreads tend to panic people when they drop in, a fister might attract slightly less attention and survive to kill something. 


Edited by knife&fork, 01 July 2014 - 04:19 AM.

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#12
Shaezus

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And considering they now ignore any damage result of less than 5!

Got two of them in my pod list now biggrin.png


They still go down super easy to glances and melta though. I really hate the hull point system dry.png

Maybe I should start running fists instead of talons just because of the psychological factor. The blender dreads tend to panic people when they drop in, as fister might attract slightly less attention and survive to kill something.

Totally agree, and DC dreads must have been jaw-dropping in 5th ed before hull points. Here's hoping they get some treatment in the next dex.

Haven't tried DC fister yet but will give it ago soon. Also I keep imagining what they could do given prescience. May have to try that too.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#13
Demoulius

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Interesting thread :) some of the things I noticed:

 

Exploding vehicles do S4 hits to everyone now, not just the ones inside (making exploding vehicles slightly more hazardous for people nearby)

 

Dreadnoughts now also have hammer of wrath

 

Charging through terrain is now -2 inches instead of rolling 3d6 and picking the 2 lowest (making it possible to fail a 2 inch charge if your opponent is in cover...)

 

Counterattack is just +1 attack and no other benefits (not sure if that changed from the previous version?) and its gained automaticly if you have it. No more requirement for a LD check.

 

Nightfighting is just +1 to cover saves or a 6+ cover save if one of the players want to play it (if both dont want it you dont even need to roll) and its no longer restricting your shots, nor does beeing farther away give you any bigger benefits either. Can be big on your first turns.


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#14
Shaezus

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Another big change - a very big one in fact - is the way wounds are allocated.

Where it used to be wounds were allocated to the model closest to the firing unit, now it is the model closest to each weapon type, with wounds being resolved and allocated separately for each different kind of weapon being fired.

This is big because it stops the kind of trick where, for example, a jump squad with two meltaguns could shoot at an enemy warlord in a command squad by simply sneaking marines over the back so that the warlord was the closest model to any marine, therefore the meltaguns, who would be the furthest models away from the warlord and safe at the rear, closer to models in the command squad, could target the warlord first.

Now if you want to do this you have to have your meltas closer to the warlord than to any other model in the command squad, putting them in harms way come the enemy's turn.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#15
Morticon

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This is a great thread, guys.  Keep it up!


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#16
Teetengee

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This thread may be of interest:

http://www.bolterand...-edition/page-1


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#17
Morticon

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also cool!  but i dig the BA slant here :D


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"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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#18
Chaplain Gunzhard

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Well perhaps not a big deal for many folks and maybe common sense, but if you play the Maelstrom of War missions I've found that deep striking jumppack units are invaluable with our d6 scatter.

 

Also pinned units can no longer fire Overwatch when being assaulted (different from last edition) although we don't have a plethora of options to cause pinning.


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#19
Ushtarador

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"They shall know no fear" doesn't allow for the 3" regroup move, it only states that you may move as normal. I think that was different as well before, yes?



#20
knife&fork

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Walkers are now automatically hit by rams, no option for moving away or performing death or glory. 

 

The Caestus is looking better and better in this ed. 


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#21
Shaezus

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Fancy fitting one out with the 'battle of keylek' legacy of glory. 35 points for ignore cover on all blast weapons, so that's a twin-linked large blast S8 AP1 melta with ignores cover. Sounds very nice.

Think Donald Sutherland sitting atop a Land Raider Redeemer, speakers blaring out 'Singing in the rain' to the accompaniment of falling drop pods...

 

The difference between us and the Dark Angels? We defeated our demons. 

 

BA.jpg   20.jpg

 

 


#22
Cronhour

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  • Independent Characters can now join one-model units (looking at you Corbulo and Mephiston)

 

Get off Iron arm with these two and you'll have a majority toughness 9 unit!

 

Any plasma the enemy send your way gets tanked on Corbulo's 2+ feel no pain, anything strength 8 or above gets LOS'd to Mephiston

 

  • Independent Characters can embark Battle Brothers transports

Azrael and Death Company in a drop pod for a 3+ armour, 4+ inv, 5+ FNP first turn threat

 

From what I understood they (battle brothers) could embark into dedicated transports but not start the game in them (therefore they can't join squads in drop pods) but you could have them jumping into a stormraven or a spartan together



#23
Chaplain Gunzhard

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Walkers are now automatically hit by rams, no option for moving away or performing death or glory.

The Caestus is looking better and better in this ed.

Wasn't this the same in 6th ed? Another thing with walkers, you can now Overwatch outside of your firing arc, wherein 6th enemies could charge from behind and not get shot at. And as someone else already mentioned they get Hammer of Wrath now too! Finally don't forge the DC dread has Fleet as well. :-)

Edited by Chaplain Gunzhard, 04 July 2014 - 04:29 AM.

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#24
SonOfThunder

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Something that just came up in the DA side of things. Jink is now declared before any to hit rolls are made, and you need to be targeted to declare it. Which means that a unit that is hit by a blast, but wasn't the original target of that blast, cannot declare a jink to answer to that blast. This is big for bike armies, but it can affect our dear MM bikes, speeders and hovering ravens as well...Them battle cannons and demolishers are a tad deadlier against jinkers now, if you have another unit close enough.



#25
Chaplain Admetus

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No more 50% reserve limit meaning DoA is a workable playstyle again. Just got to be sure to have a few things on the table turn 1, even if it's podding in etc.

 

Another one that I unpacked at a tournament last week and caught people off guard with, if you win the roll off and choose to deploy first, you don't automatically go first any more, you get to choose to go first or second; if you choose first, the opponent then gets the chance to seize the initiative. Basically, if your opponent counter deploys everything out of range or sight or has some kind of shenanigans predicated upon going second, those are out the window as you can just force them to take the first turn. Seems a lot of people are still missing this one.

 

BA specific, we have one of the comparatively few vehicle psykers in the game, and they're surprisingly tough. Make a good support caster at ML2 for a not unreasonable price tag.

 

Characters no longer have Precision Shot built in, so no need to faff about rolling their boltgun separately from everyone else's.

 

Objective secured Rhinos. Pretty zippy. 27" effective range to claim/contest objectives with. Also applies to Razorbacks.


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