More 7th ed quirks and changes.

[Morticon]

This is a bit of a combo one, but scriers gaze is now mad, mad legit for tactical objectives and more importantly mysterious objectives.  The ability to get skyfire on scoring ground units (even devs) is amazing.

[Chaplain Admetus]

The only problem with using it for mysterious objectives is that you have to sit -away- from the objectives until you get Gaze off. Can force you into a sub-optimal position as a result. And beware a canny opponent discovering objectives just to deny you the opportunity.

[Morticon]

in multi objective games, it shouldnt be too tough. Single objective games too.  Scouring mish there are loads your side, usually.  But, defs all need to be considered.

[Orogen]

I've got a question to add to the thread - how has mephiston faired in 7th for you guys?  Generally, most BA lists take him as the only psyker.  In that case, do you find yourself actually being able to cast powers?  Do you need to run additional support (for more dice) or is he ok generating power dice on his own? 

 

Cheers!

-Orogen

[knife&fork]

I've got a question to add to the thread - how has mephiston faired in 7th for you guys?  Generally, most BA lists take him as the only psyker.  In that case, do you find yourself actually being able to cast powers?  Do you need to run additional support (for more dice) or is he ok generating power dice on his own? 

 

Cheers!

-Orogen

 

You now have the personal warlord traits that can give him FnP and IWND, very helpful. He'll also generate a fair amount of dice on his own since he relies on blessings with 1-2 WC. You'll often have two useful ones and most of the time you only need to get 1 off to be 'safe'. 

 

Not easy to stop that unless the enemy list generates a huge amount of dice. To be honest the most annoying thing is how unreliable it can be to activate 'force'.

 

That said it's now best to rely on passive buffs. With the right warlord trait the psychic powers might not be needed at all. In an ideal world you'll draw 'endurance', 'iron arm' and 'warp speed' every game, but just getting IWND is usually enough to keep him trucking all game long.

[Remtek]

The removal of focus fire is a pretty big buff for Assault Marines. Now when moving 10 models you can for example move 2 of them behind 25% cover. The opponent must allocate wounds to the models in cover first (closest)

 

Now lets say the opponent fires 2 plasma cannons your way. You have spread your units somewhat so he can only hit 3 per template. Both of them are direct hit's and wounding on 2'es doing an avg 5 wounds. Your jump marines wil generally have a priest nearby, so you are gettings a 5+ cover 5+ fnp roll or a 55% chanse of saving your model, meaning on avg you would only loose roughly 2.4 marines. This is without opponent scattering, and only using some small area cover.

 

TLDR:

Focus fire made it much harder to move 10man jump infantry while still maintaining cover saves.

[Morticon]

im personally very bummed with the loss of Precision shots/strikes for characters and Focus Fire.  They were two tactics I made extensive use of.

[Jolemai]

Fast vehicles now allow for two shots when going 6-12" (cruising speed). Very useful for our Plaserbacks.

 

Vehicles can now more and fire Ordnance - Our Vindicators aren't that special anymore.

 

Ramming is now half your front AV rounding up, with a +1 for being a tank. Dozerblades add a further +1 to this. Therefore, Rhinos, etc will always have a STR 7 attack (with or without a Dozerblade), Predators (with/without Dozerblades) and Land Raiders will have a STR 8 attack.

[Shaezus]

There's been a nerf of sorts to barrage. Had it explained to me at the weekend but all I can remember is that they are no longer pinning, even if they do affect every level under the template now.

 

By far the worst change IMHO is invisibility. One warp charge makes a unit immune to blast and template and everything else needs six to hit, in shooting and cc. Absolutely hideous and the only sure reply to it is to use invisibility yourself. It has actually put me off competitive 40k big time.

[Gondow]

invisibility is 2 warp charges in my book..

[Constanzo]

It is also 2 Warp Charges in my book...

[Shaezus]

My bad! :)

 

Still think it should be WC3 or allow blast / template to hit, maybe at 1/2 wounds even.

[SonOfThunder]

Invisibility was already very powerful in 6th, but the 7th incarnation is beyond broken.

[Constanzo]

My bad!

Still think it should be WC3 or allow blast / template to hit, maybe at 1/2 wounds even.

Out of interest - are they immune to blast and template because they can only be subjected to snap shots? Because other than that it doesn't say anything about templates and blasts... (You'll have to excuse me I'm a bit noob-ish)

[Jolemai]

Correct.

[CornishMike]

My bad!

Still think it should be WC3 or allow blast / template to hit, maybe at 1/2 wounds even.

No single psychic power bothers me at all under 7th... Psychic in general gives me headaches, but I never get scared of a single power because:

a) Barring the Primaris powers, there is a high chance that the psyker will not get his chosen power. ML 3, there's a 50% chance he wont get it, ML2 = 33.33333%... ML1 = a paltry 0.167% chance... Now, my Psychic deck is out in the car, but I'm fairly confident that Invisibility is not a psychic power (I think it's psychic shriek for that school?!?). In essence, there's a good chance I won't see that power, and then my opponent's reliance on it makes my job gravy...

b) Even if he gets invisibility, it's now much harder to make it work... Let's assume a standard army running 3 psykers, an ML3 HQ, an ML2 HQ and an ML2 Elite (So Mephy, Libby and Libby Dread). That's 7 dice for MLs, and an average of 3 roleld as extra... 10 dice.

Now, It's warp power 2, so most people pump 5 dice into it. You certainly can't get away with 4 or less... That means the very most he's going to be casting is 2 invisibilities. Most likely 1 or none...

And that's why I don't care about individual powers anymore :P

[Shaezus]

Have to disagree - in my last three games, invisibility was cast fifteen times without fail.

 

Eldar have that bling which reduces WC cost by one. And they have enough psykers to cast that, hammerhand, prescience plus a psychic shriek or two without fail nor worry of deny.

 

Other factions simply take enough psykers to make sure it comes off. Fair enough if your local meta is different. But you'll know when it does cast successfully anyway.

[Gondow]

An invisible unit can be hit by blasts just not targeted.

[Cronhour]

An invisible unit can be hit by blasts just not targeted.

 

This, I've used invisibility a couple of times and it's worked out very well, but if the opponent ignored me and killed everything else first then it would have been a different story, as for blast weapons scatter is your friend so target units near them and hope for the scatter str 8 ap3 templates make sort work of invisible units with a little scatter.

 

If you need to slow them throw something cheap into them so they have to eat them in combat, no point putting your good stuff in as they're strengths are negated, plus you can always try and tank shock them.

[Jolemai]

Aye, if they cluster up the Template can be used to the same effect by targeting a nearby unit and catching the invisible one.

[knife&fork]

It just hit me, and I have no idea why it took me so long, but since vehicles are now considered moving a combat speed when deep striking that means our land raiders can act as uber-pods?!

 

With locators beacons I could see that actually being quite useful.... hmmmmmmm.  

[Jolemai]

Combine that with the Legacy of Glory: Isstvaan V Dropsite Massacre (IAv2SE, page 245) and for the price of four Melta Bombs, your Landraider will never scatter...

That aside, what variant do you foresee this being the best option for?

[BloodTzar]

TBH none... having LR with all passangers on table T2 (soonest) nad T3 potential charge; is not a win-win. However if you must, take redeemer and BBQ as much as u can :) (in 7th DS is moving cruising speed I believe, but please correct me if I am wrong)

[Quixus]

Why only a turn 3 charge? Are the passengers of the land raider also considered to be deep striking i.e. prohibited from charging?

[Jolemai]

Correct. For precedence, see the latest Lucius Drop Pod rules.