Captain Coolpants Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Hi guys, my friends have made up a custom campaign game for all 3 of us to play, and we're making it as fluffy as possible, regarding what units we use, force org, how they would actually play and wargear. Now. I'm asking about nemesis daemon hammers in particular because online they say that daemon hammers are only given to high ranking inquisitors and people who have slain a greater daemon. My question is.... Is a 'nemesis daemon hammer' different to a 'daemon hammer'? Or are they the same thing and just worded differently? Obviously I need to know because if they are indeed the same thing, then fluff wise I'd only really be able to have 1 hammer, probably on the brother captain. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 A Daemonhammer and a Nemesis Daemonhammer are the same thing. However, Grey Knight have ready access to Nemesis Force weapons of every flavor, while Inquisitors do not. As such, only trusted Inquistors of the Ordo Malleus can gain access to these weapons, of which only the Daemonhammer is available. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks for le reply! So does that mean grey knights can Indeed use a few hammers in any detachment? Much like a regular space marine army? (just obviously cooler because we're knights!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 And is there any references I could use to prove this? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 The best reference is the GK codex, under Nemesis Force weapons, as well as each unit's army list entry. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Iirc the first GK novel had a battle-brother within Alaric's squad who wielded a NDH and it was described as rare. I cant remember his name (I think I was mind wiped) but it might be on lexicanum if you're lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I believe it was Tancred but he was a beast. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 IIRC (can't be :cussed to dig out my onld Daemonhunters Codex) Daemonhammers were a different and distinct bit of wargear. We could assume that were subsumed and updated into Nemesis Daemonhammers, but I don't think the original were Nemesis Weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 In the old book nemesis weapons weren't a thing. I agree with Jeff's assessment, GKs can access them, inquisitors can but they are rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 We've always had Nemesis Weapons. Originally, they were a Halberd with a built in Bolter (3 shot). Then they had a built in Storm Bolter. Grey Kngihts got Lightning Claws and Thunderhammers and Storm Shields on their Terminators. In the Daemonhunter Codex, Nemesis Force Weapons gave +2 Strength, and had different properties based on the rank of the GK that used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Okay, so we have conflicting opinions lol I think I'll just never use more than 3 or something? You think that sounds appropriate? My force is never really going to have more than 1200 points worth (because knights are always vastly outnumbered) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Someone must have Codex: Daemonhunters within easy reach. ;) I'm *sure* the Daemonhammer was a distinct bit of kit. With something like reroll wounds cuased to Daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Daemonhammers had a one per army restriction, and could be taken by Lord Inquisitors, Inquisitors, or Grey Knights in terminator armor. As was already pointed out, Inquisitors (lord or otherwise), only got a daemonhammer if they've slain a greater daemon. Rule-wise, a daemonhammer worked just like a thunderhammer, but hit at initiative order if used against a daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 That was it! Thanks! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Wow im confused now, are NDH and daemon hammers the same thing? I only started in 5th and dispite being a GK fan I didnt play them until their 5th edition codex came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 So to really play a fluffy list, I should definitely keep hammers at a minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 In Codex: Daemonhunters, daemon hammers were a distinct wargear option for HQ's and a 0-1 in the army. Nemesis weapons worked entirely differently as well, as they have +2 Strength (battle-brother), +2 Strength power weapon (Justicar, Brother-Captain, Terminators) and +2 Strength power weapon with a special 'remove from game' ability (Grandmaster only). Currently, any Knight unit can take as many hammers as you want, they're just another nemesis variant. Generally speaking though, as others have mentioned, they're a rarer form of nemesis weapon, as they require great physical strength to wield and no small degree of skill. Swords and halberds are probably the most common nemesis forms, as falchions are considered to require fast reflexes and again great skill, and warding staves are Chapter relics. So, in a typical squad, if you wanted to be fluffy, you'd take 1-2 hammers, and then a mixture of swords and halberds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks guys. All been rather helpful ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I believe it was Tancred but he was a beast. Lol I'm pretty sure he was a swordsman. Dvorn (I think I've spelled that right...) was the guy with the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 There you go... shows how long it has been... I wasn't really a fan of how self-doubting he made Alaric, tho I still love the idea of a GK Chaplain with lightning claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 There you go... shows how long it has been... I wasn't really a fan of how self-doubting he made Alaric, tho I still love the idea of a GK Chaplain with lightning claws Eh, I think he had to sorta take the whole 'Knights can never fall' concept to its logical conclusion. He'd already had them fight a Greater Daemon in the first book, then a daemonic Titan in the second. There isn't many other options for upping the ante after that. I thought 'Hammer of Daemons' was fine, although it does leave Alaric in an interesting position at the end. Agreed about the Chaplain. Who knows, maybe the next army book we shall see one. At least as a weapon option for Brotherhood Champions ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I did like his short story "Sacrifice" better than the third book, but my favorite part was Alaric convincing the STC it was a daemon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I really didn't get that part, how would fighting a daemon have any affect on whether or not the daemon knew it was a daemon. There's got to be a few lesser daemons that don't know they're daemons, they're just an effigy of the warp and follow its ebbs and eddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I did like his short story "Sacrifice" better than the third book, but my favorite part was Alaric convincing the STC it was a daemon It wasn't an STC. Standard Template Constructors are machines that print things using local materials. The super-megatron-Titan that Alaric encounters is an artificial intelligence from the Dark Age of Technology (ie humanity's first galactic empire). It's spent a lot of time waiting on a corrupted forge world, and it quite clearly has been corrupted itself. Alaric just gave it the final push, which also meant he knew how to purge it. Man, it was cool though. Its main cannon fired high velocity DAEMONS at its enemies. I really didn't get that part, how would fighting a daemon have any affect on whether or not the daemon knew it was a daemon. There's got to be a few lesser daemons that don't know they're daemons, they're just an effigy of the warp and follow its ebbs and eddies. Well you have to remember, 'daemon' is just the word humans have for warp beings. To them, their existence is timeless (as their existence is tied directly to their creators favour) and they probably find reality very confusing. I'm sure they all know they're not mortal, and they definitely know what a mortal is. In the case of the super-Titan AI, I think its rather like how a mortal can become a Daemon Prince. You start out not being a daemon, and then by being corrupted, you eventually cross over. The other classic example are the Daemon Primarchs. They can't remain in realspace anymore due to what they've given up, but they were once (more or less) mortals. Alaric really just helped the AI understand what it had been turned into, which then of course meant it was vulnerable to his sorcery and training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's also along the lines of the God-Emperor's divinity... the masses believe he is, thus he is. "I think, therefore I am" and whatnot. A lot of power is derived from a name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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