Interceptor.

[Helscream]

If two drop pods are dropped simultaneously besides a model that has interceptor, can he fire twice i.e ALL GUNS against the two models or does he only get to target one? 

I.E Two drop pods carrying Dreadnoughts are dropped beside a Tau riptide suit in the first Space Marine turn far enough apart that a large blast will not ever hit both. Does the Riptide suit get to fire at each Dreadnought individually or does he have to pick a target to fire against. 

[Quixus]

One weapon can only fire at one only drop pod. But if a model has more than one weapon with that rule, each weapon can fire at a different drop pod.

[himkano]

Although what they also can, and probably will do, is target the dread instead if the pod, because in the example, there are actually 4 potential targets, 2 pods and 2 dreads- but he can still only target 1 with 1 weapon

[Captain Idaho]

Rule question answered, execution notice served. If we can turn this topic into a Tactica friendly topic I might let it live.

 

:)

[CoffeeGrunt]

Multi-Tracker does not operate outside of the Shooting Phase, as well as the Monstrous Creature rules for Shooting two weapons. In that case, since Interceptor happens in your Movement Phase, the Riptide can only fire one weapon and must choose a target as he would during his own Shooting Phase, (remembering he can't then fire it in his subsequent Shooting Phase.)

 

There are no Tau upgrades that allow a model to fire at two separate units outside of Shadowsun's special XV22 armour.

[GreyCrow]

Interceptor weapons must also have line of sight to the model. An easy way around Interceptor is dropping the Pod and its unit behind line of sight blocking things.

 

When terrain is lacking, enemy units like big vehicles work really well ! In addition, a model can only kill what it can see, so it would be a shame if that Riptide only killed a Tactical Marine toting a boltgun if that was the only guy you didn't manage to hide properly.

 

I think Interceptor weapons make for a better use of Drop Pods. Most of the time I've seen them used, it's as "fire and forget" suicide units, that are relatively costly for what they do. On the other hand, looking at the Pod as a deployment option rather than a delivery method seems to me it will yield the best results over the course of 5 turns.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Do not forget that Riptides are semi-blind Camelfolk. Thus, when firing Interceptor without Markerlights, he is almost definitely going to Scatter to some degree.

 

Given that Drop Pods auto-adjust their position to avoid Mishaps/Terrain, finding a cosy spot right next to his units will make him very reluctant fire that gun in the first place.

[Captain Idaho]

Good points all. I would also suggest carefully selected combat squads can mitigate losses. As an example, say you're striking against the Riptide with plasma Tactical squad for example, splitting the combi plasma and plasma gun into two separate squads from one Drop Pod will ensure he can only target one squad at best.

 

This also gets you a second grenade from the same 10 man unit. ;)

[GreyCrow]

Good points Captain and CoffeeGrunt !

 

Also, I think that sometimes it may be better to draw Interceptor fire rather than avoid it. Like Grunt said, without markerlights, many Tau units suck at shooting, and it might be good to make them shoot in your turn rather than in the enemy's. That way, they won't benefit from Markerlights.

 

In addition, that allow to dillute the shooting power over several turns, that way the burst is less damaging and it offers your units more survivability and more target confusion for the enemy.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, a Tau firebase is going to have very little AP2 or 3 to counter you if the Riptide fires off too early. Crisis Suits will typically drop in on your side for aggressive counter-attacks. If you draw him into dropping them on his table side, you've got him on the defensive. Fire Warriors can bring down Mariens through massed fire, but can rarely muster it, especially if you brought a Heavy Flamer to roast them a bit.

[Jolemai]

Just to confirm, in the 7th edition when a model has both Skyfire and Interceptor it still has to fire at ground targets using the Snap Shots rule?

[GreyCrow]

I think that that's been removed Jolemai. Now a weapon/model with Skyfire only fires with Snap Shots at ground targets, regardless of whether it has interceptor or not :)

[Captain Idaho]

It's worth pointing out that many Tau weapons of war allow the choice of adding skyfire to their weapons rather than be determined skyfire weapons. Let's just roll our eyes at those Tau cheese mongers and move on...

 

I agree with CoffeeGrunt. Tau struggle to attack our objectives particularly if they are busy with your attack force. Those Riptides are crucial to removal of Drop Pod units but without them and their interceptor they are forced to use the crucial methods of objectives assaulting to stop us clearing the army off the board.

[CoffeeGrunt]

It's worth pointing out that many Tau weapons of war allow the choice of adding skyfire to their weapons rather than be determined skyfire weapons. Let's just roll our eyes at those Tau cheese mongers and move on...

 

That said, there's only two platforms it matters on - Broadsides and Riptides, the latter only really with the Heavy Burst Cannon that has been Nova Charged. Broadsides will typically for for the High-Yield Missile Pods and spam S7 to kill.

 

There is very little that can bring Interceptor and Skyfire in Tau, mainly only the Riptide, and it is incredibly inaccurate when it does.

[Helscream]

The reason I brought this up was due to alot of competitive Tau lists (with no cheese) running the combo of 1-2 Riptide, the commander that gives them the buff and the two smaller suits (Crisis?) As primarily a space marine player in tournaments, I find it hard to compete against the wall of fire power one or two suits can put out. If left unchecked, the fact they can ignore cover etc it can wipe out a full space marine army unless you build a list to deal with just Tau alone. The problem I have with this is a list made solely to beat Tau might not beat an Elder Jet bike list or a necron skimmer/chariot list.

I was trying to build a list at 1650 that was competitive against a variety of 'meta' armies. It's really came down to making a slightly old school drop pod list. That might sound insane, but trying to footslog against Tau is always a bad idea and is a bad idea in any objective based game. Tanks/transports have got slightly better in 7th edition, but the fact tau can ignore cover and can deal with armor reasonably well ( with smaller suits rather than the riptide) have made me come down on using drop pod cover to exploit Tau Rip tide special rules. I use three drop pods with a Crusader squad ( Combi-Melta, Grav Gun), Command squad (All grav guns) and a Sternguard squad (Grav gun, and two combi meltas) or if I know the person has one riptide I put in a Ironclad Dreadnought instead of the Sternguard. I try and drop the three first turn as close to the riptide as possible if he has stupidly placed the model (not in cover with space either side) You box him in. Now intercept means that he can only fire one gun at each or all guns at one, so it is important to leave the tactical squad more exposed than the other two (Who should be behind drop pods). He cannot ignore cover or used any of his special abilities (apart from intercept) on your turn and cannot fire on his turn with any unit that has intercepted on your turn. To cut this short, he cannot kill all three squads under and circumstances due to number of guns and cover saves from the drop pod. He might not be able to fire his big blast against you if you place your droppod close enough. The combination of that many grav guns and bolters WILL kill one riptide suit completely outright unless you are completely unlucky with rolls.  If you are getting rid of the stern guard squad and using the dreadnought. You probably need to wait a little longer to use this tactic. Wait until he has put a few troop choices (3+ probably) on the field from reserves or from the start of the game. Drop the dreadnought ( Front armor exposed slightly) near his troops and hope he is daft enough to fire the riptide guns at it to save his troops. The other two squads do the same and kill the riptide.  

Thank you for the clarification in rules! 

[Quixus]

It is a nerf to the quad gun and icarus lascannon.

[CoffeeGrunt]

running the combo of 1-2 Riptide, the commander that gives them the buff 

 

If it makes you feel better, this is now illegal, so you won't ever see it again.

 

Worth noting that the Cover Save from the Drop Pod is still only a 5+. I'd argue for putting some Ruins in the way instead if you can, a 4+ just holds a little stronger.

 

Now intercept means that he can only fire one gun at each or all guns at one

 

Not from one model. One model may fire one weapon at one target.

 

One thing Tau really struggle with is hard AV14. The Railgun doesn't cut it, the Riptide even less so, and they have to get close in order to bring Melta to bear.

[Helscream]

 

running the combo of 1-2 Riptide, the commander that gives them the buff 

 

If it makes you feel better, this is now illegal, so you won't ever see it again.

 

Worth noting that the Cover Save from the Drop Pod is still only a 5+. I'd argue for putting some Ruins in the way instead if you can, a 4+ just holds a little stronger.

 

Now intercept means that he can only fire one gun at each or all guns at one

 

Not from one model. One model may fire one weapon at one target.

 

One thing Tau really struggle with is hard AV14. The Railgun doesn't cut it, the Riptide even less so, and they have to get close in order to bring Melta to bear.

 

 

 

Good times, can you specify what exactly would be in a Riptide squad now if anything? Is it just illegal to put two together, or is it illegal to put the commander with the riptide? Or both?

Do you have any ideas about what would defiantly be included in a 1650 competitive tau army apart from Riptide and commander?

 

 

Terrain permitting, I could position my guys that way, but I'd rather have the option and not be dependent on good terrain. Good advice regardless.

 

I think a stormraven works fairly against a tau army, I don't like using land raiders in competitive lists as necrons/eldar can easily deal with the vehicle. It's usually a priority target and I feel that the majority of the time it doesn't really make it's cost back in points. A stormraven is harder to hit for them even with skyfire and it fills a variety of rolls. My 1650 army list has one and it's basically my late game tank/monstrous creature/flyer killer. 

 

 

 

 

[CoffeeGrunt]

It is illegal for Monstrous Creatures to be joined by an Independent Character. Nothing can join the Riptide, not even O'Vesa. There's talk of O'Vesa being able to join to a Commander rather than the Commander joining to him, but such a unit is easily 500-600pts and not worth it, especially considering you must take Farsight as your Warlord to even get O'Vesa.  It's also a very, very contested interpretation of the wording, and the majority have decided over on the Tau forums that the Buffmander + Riptide combo is very dead and buried. Most never used it anyway as it was already based on a sketchy interpretation of the rules.

 

A competitive 1650 Tau list? Hmmm. Two Riptides, several Broadsides, and Crisis Suits with Melta to deal with hard armour, I'd say. You're unlikely to see many vehicles, but some might run Devilfishes to make use of their Objective Secured status. Tau are pretty divergent, so the rest will likely be to the player's personal taste, but you can bank on Riptides and Broadsides making an appearance.

 

I think Guard are the only ones able to rock up in enough scary AV14 to really ruin Tau's day. One or two targets they can deal with, whereas you really need saturation with them. Everything has a job in a Tau list. They'll have dedicated units taken with the expectation of a certain level of a unit type in each game, whether it's Hordes, Monstrous Creatures, AV14, Light Vehicles, or Marines, etc.

 

A Stormraven might work well, but is a vulnerable proposition. Riptides with Heavy Burst Cannons that are Nova Charged can really hurt them and scare them into Jinking at the least. Also, when Stormravens go down, it's not good for the cargo. If not the Riptides, the Broadsides will do a number on them.

 

Sadly, I think Lascannons are the best way to deal with both Broadsides and Riptides efficiently, as well as anything S8+ AP1/2 weaponry you have. It insta-gibs Broadsides, and Riptides do not like that sort of fire if they haven't got their Invuln charged up. Hammer the Markerlights early as always, and consider investing in Psychic. They're defenseless against it, so maybe running Tigurius might work? Tagging him onto Devastators with Perfect Timing lets you play the Tau's game and remove Broadside squads at your leisure. Make sure to whittle down any Drones with anti-Infantry fire first, though.

[Helscream]

It is illegal for Monstrous Creatures to be joined by an Independent Character. Nothing can join the Riptide, not even O'Vesa. There's talk of O'Vesa being able to join to a Commander rather than the Commander joining to him, but such a unit is easily 500-600pts and not worth it, especially considering you must take Farsight as your Warlord to even get O'Vesa.  It's also a very, very contested interpretation of the wording, and the majority have decided over on the Tau forums that the Buffmander + Riptide combo is very dead and buried. Most never used it anyway as it was already based on a sketchy interpretation of the rules.

 

A competitive 1650 Tau list? Hmmm. Two Riptides, several Broadsides, and Crisis Suits with Melta to deal with hard armour, I'd say. You're unlikely to see many vehicles, but some might run Devilfishes to make use of their Objective Secured status. Tau are pretty divergent, so the rest will likely be to the player's personal taste, but you can bank on Riptides and Broadsides making an appearance.

 

I think Guard are the only ones able to rock up in enough scary AV14 to really ruin Tau's day. One or two targets they can deal with, whereas you really need saturation with them. Everything has a job in a Tau list. They'll have dedicated units taken with the expectation of a certain level of a unit type in each game, whether it's Hordes, Monstrous Creatures, AV14, Light Vehicles, or Marines, etc.

 

A Stormraven might work well, but is a vulnerable proposition. Riptides with Heavy Burst Cannons that are Nova Charged can really hurt them and scare them into Jinking at the least. Also, when Stormravens go down, it's not good for the cargo. If not the Riptides, the Broadsides will do a number on them.

 

Sadly, I think Lascannons are the best way to deal with both Broadsides and Riptides efficiently, as well as anything S8+ AP1/2 weaponry you have. It insta-gibs Broadsides, and Riptides do not like that sort of fire if they haven't got their Invuln charged up. Hammer the Markerlights early as always, and consider investing in Psychic. They're defenseless against it, so maybe running Tigurius might work? Tagging him onto Devastators with Perfect Timing lets you play the Tau's game and remove Broadside squads at your leisure. Make sure to whittle down any Drones with anti-Infantry fire first, though.

 

I play Templars man, so sadly Tigurius is not for me. I should be able to deal with Tau now that combo has been taken out, just with weight of fire from meltas and multi-meltas. Not even remotely afraid now. Last question, if a Tau weapon is over charged, does that mean the riptide dosn't get invuln save on that turn? 

[CoffeeGrunt]

When they choose to Nova Charge and it passes, they may get a 4D6 Jetpack Move, a 3++, fire their secondary weapon twice, or charge up their main weapon. So yup, if he charges his main gun, he's down to a 5++. Even with the 5+ FNP he'll likely be rolling with, that's not too durable if you get Melta on it.

 

Basically he will always have at least a 5++, but can bump it up to a 3++ if he needs to. Generally this is what people will start off with, to make it a big, intimidating fire magnet as it charges up the field.

 

I would say Librarians with Force Axes might help, but y'know, ZEAL and all that

[GreyCrow]

If you're a Templar, tarpit them in melee with a good large Crusader squad. Eventually, the krak grenades will do the work for you.

 

Psychologically, the worst thing for an opponent is not that their expensive unit is killed, but that it is rendered useless. For that, nothing better than locking them in melee against a cheapish unit for a couple of turns.

 

EDIT : In addition, a Land Raider will NEVER make its points back. It's not a vehicle you take for damage. It's a vehicle you take for sheltering a unit you want to get up the board ;)

[Helscream]

When they choose to Nova Charge and it passes, they may get a 4D6 Jetpack Move, a 3++, fire their secondary weapon twice, or charge up their main weapon. So yup, if he charges his main gun, he's down to a 5++. Even with the 5+ FNP he'll likely be rolling with, that's not too durable if you get Melta on it.

Basically he will always have at least a 5++, but can bump it up to a 3++ if he needs to. Generally this is what people will start off with, to make it a big, intimidating fire magnet as it charges up the field.

I would say Librarians with Force Axes might help, but y'know, ZEAL and all that

Witches with power axes is heresy.

If you're a Templar, tarpit them in melee with a good large Crusader squad. Eventually, the krak grenades will do the work for you.

Psychologically, the worst thing for an opponent is not that their expensive unit is killed, but that it is rendered useless. For that, nothing better than locking them in melee against a cheapish unit for a couple of turns.

EDIT : In addition, a Land Raider will NEVER make its points back. It's not a vehicle you take for damage. It's a vehicle you take for sheltering a unit you want to get up the board

They are very hard to catch especially with that jump move and that super charged large blast template will surely destroy my tarpit not to mention all that god damned Tau overwatch fire haha. I could always charge and shout EMPEROR PROTECTS when he rolls for his over watch to put him off. I can honestly say that I want nothing more than get Tau into combat, especially my Captain vs the Riptide it's a matter of pride, honor and ZEAL ,unfortunately it's never that easy in a competitive game to get into combat. Unless it's throwing an exploded Landraider at your opponent :P