Sep tourney.... Fun list it is! Batreps up

[knife&fork]

What the title says!

Despite heavy handed comp (think 5.5 th ed rather than 7th) things will be tough at the top. Necrons got off very easy for some reason so I wouldn't be surprised to see them if I do well. Just one maelstrom mission but lots of kill points, either as primary or secondary. In other words there's no need for a ton of troops. The relevant restrictions are 1995 pts, no more than 3 of any units outside troops, max 3 flyers, 2 detachments, max 2 ravens, no forgeworld, no supplements, no fortifications, battlebrothers nerfed to allies of convenience. Imperial knights as allies but as CA detachment. LoW ok. Pretty stale but what can you do...

With that in mind I'm looking at either a mechanized list, probably something like this;

Tycho

3*podded frag dreads

4*razor squads

2* assault squads in land raiders

or

D-D-D-D-DREADMANIA!!!!

reclusiarch

3*frag dreads in pods

10 DC in a land raider

2* DC dreads in pods

2*TLAC/TLLC dreads on foot

heavy dread with TLHF and HF

I could also footslog the DC and bring even more DC dreads. Maybe drop the TLHF heavy dread.

So which one do you guys think I'll have more fun playing?

Could we perhaps add a poll?

[Firepower]

Go with number 2.  I know nothing of the rules, the tactics, or what you may go up against.  All I know is that 8 venerable half dead Angels encased in walking war machines following 10 psychopaths and a skull headed preacher with a beatin' stick on to a battlefield is a beautiful, beautiful idea.

 

:lol:

[Teetengee]

I'd drop the land raider as there is no saturation for it in the list. Just get more dreads. (Or more baal preds if that's your fancy)

[Shaezus]

DDDDDREEEEEEEAAAAAAAADDDDD MAAAAAAAAYYYNNIAAA!! All the way dude :)

 

Hey...if you're playing '5.5' ed. How will that affect lucius pod rules hmmm? ;) Am sure you catch my drift sir!

 

And that would be massive lolz if you take 25-30 DC. Would love to cast invisibility on THAT.

 

Seriously though like you said in my thread, people won't be prepared for 5 or more dreads. Personally I would pod as many in as possible, on average dice if you place wisely you will shake them up in turn one for sure. Also if you go for three DC dreads I would suggest two of them with claws. Just because...well, you know why.

 

Obvious downside is mobility but if you have enough to pin him on both flanks in T1 its just a matter of closing the pincers if all goes ok.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Slight problem with the Dread list is that the Reclusiarch has nowhere to go unless that's a Crusader or Redeemer (minor nitpick, I know). I'd also try and find the points to get the flamer dread a pod as it needs it more than anything else. Dread list definitely looks more fun though.

[Shaezus]

Slight problem with the Dread list is that the Reclusiarch has nowhere to go unless that's a Crusader or Redeemer (minor nitpick, I know). I'd also try and find the points to get the flamer dread a pod as it needs it more than anything else. Dread list definitely looks more fun though.

Depends on how many DC and DC dreads he has, but how about dropping tycho, making the reclusiarch warlord and bringing in corbulo to lead the DC across the board? Just the thought of two fraggies and five DC dreads dropping in, with a DC horde sweeping up at their heels, corbulo at the spearhead. Sounds like fun to me and maybe room for a raven in there too.

[Remtek]

Dread list, go big or go home!

[knife&fork]

Heavy support dread would of course have a pod. But I only have 7 pods. Dreads I have more than I can possibly fit at that point level.

 

 

I had a mindfart and forgot regular land raiders no longer hold 12 models.... I could really use that AV14 blocker and the extra TLLCs... hmmmm. 

 

 

@Shaezus, what did you have in mind? Some kind of combination of the two lists? 

[marine7312000]

I'd say the second list with DC Tycho if you have the points. Please make sure to post a BATREP.

[Shaezus]

Knife, if it's fun you're after I would go for 5 DC dreads, 2 fraggies and 25 DC spearheaded by corbulo and with reclusiarch. Not sure how many points that leaves but if you want to infuriate people like never before, take as many warp charge as poss and go for invisibility on DC :D

[knife&fork]

All DC assault could look cool but you only get 7 dreads total and no way to generate more than the 2 warp charge from the Librarian. It's probably also the weakest list. You footslog everything but then your list would really suck

They even out quite nicely at 2k pts. Can't take more dreads than I have pods (and still have them useful) and I couldn't afford a raven anyway without cutting back on units.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[Remtek]

Heavy support dread would of course have a pod. But I only have 7 pods. Dreads I have more than I can possibly fit at that point level.

 

 

I had a mindfart and forgot regular land raiders no longer hold 12 models.... I could really use that AV14 blocker and the extra TLLCs... hmmmm. 

 

 

@Shaezus, what did you have in mind? Some kind of combination of the two lists? 

 

If light on pods you could put a DC dread in a Raven for some turn 3 assault.

[Shaezus]

All DC assault could look cool but you only get 7 dreads total and no way to generate more than the 2 warp charge from the Librarian. It's probably also the weakest list. You footslog everything but then your list would really suck :P

All dreads in pods ofc though! You'd lack mobility but you'd frrrreak people out, man :p

[knife&fork]

All DC assault could look cool but you only get 7 dreads total and no way to generate more than the 2 warp charge from the Librarian. It's probably also the weakest list. You could footslog everything but then your list would really suck

All dreads in pods ofc though! You'd lack mobility but you'd frrrreak people out, man

It's either drop pods or two characters, not enough points with that massive DC. Plus with corbs taking up a precious elite slot I can't take the 3rd fragioso! ;)

[knife&fork]

Had a practice game today with the dread spam list, looked like this:

Reclusiarch, melta bomb

3 * fragioso with melta and grapple. Pod with locator beacon and deathwind launcher

10 * Deathcompany, 1 axe, 1 fist

land raider redeemer dedicated transport

2 * DC dreads with fists, melta, flamer, grapple and pod with storm bolter

2 * Heavy dread, twinlinked autocannon and twinlinked las cannon

Heavy dread, missile launcher and plasma cannon

2k on the dot! 14 wounds and 43 hull points!

You can probably see how it's supposed to play.

Fragiosos are the alpha strike and support dreads help kill transports or put wounds on monsters.

Land raider either moves up the board turn one or start in reserves and deep strikes with the help of locator beacons. Huge non-scatter area to use and can fire both flamestorm cannons on the drop, TOASTY!!!!

DC and Reclusiarch of course rides the raider.

The Game

Played one of my regular opponents, Adepta Sororitas with inq allies.

9 melta guns, 8 multi meltas (4 twinlinked) and a melta pistol... plus a number of melta bombs on characters, eviscerators and other nasty stuff!

Think sisters are weak and puny with their T3? Well priests help a lot with that, the re-rolls to save and hatred can make them extremely durable. On turn 3 I charged 7 sisters and a priest with my HQ and entire DC, had only lost a bolter dude at that point.

That unit absorbed 5 attacks from the reclusiarch, 30 normal attacks, 4 power fist attacks and 5 axe attacks. All hitting on 3+ and wounding on 2+, rerolls for everything except wounds for the reclusiarch. I killed them off with 0 wounds to spare! And only because 3 fist wounds spilled over into the challenge.

So how did it go? I wiped him on turn 6 with a crushing 27 - 5 in victory points. I got lucky with the cards (we played maelstrom of course) but other than that the game really didn't see any extremely hot dice or major mistakes on either side. The alpha strike was simply crippling and he just couldn't catch up after turn 2.

Considering the huge amount of stuff that can glance or one-shot most of my AV things went a lot better than expected. I'll have some bad possible matchups for sure at the tournament but for someone who has little experience playing against this type of list it could get ugly!

Evaluation!

Reclusiarch - AP4 sucks but the rerolls are vital and the 4++ kept him alive.

Fragioso - Expensive in this config but worth every point. I spread out the pods in the middle of the board and got huuuuge coverage for the landraider to deep strike in without scatter. Aggressive placement meant deathwinds easily paid for themselves and I only lost the opportunity to shoot one or twice during the game.

Deathcompany - Did well as usual, I quite like this combo. Killed off a large sister squad and a weakened inquisitorial CC deathstar before my opponent wiped them out.

Redeemer - Twin flamestorms on the drops are nasty, nasty stuff. Want to find points for a multi melta as I had to slowplay it the latter half of the game.

DC dreads - They did ok, but one of them got glanced to death due to the lower number of attacks compared to claws. On the other hand I lack AP2 and they are death to most vehicles and other walkers.... might change one set for claws.

TLAC , TLLC dreads - These were great for taking down transports and putting high S shots from tricky angels. Didn't miss a single turn thanks to the good range. Will keep these as they are.

ML, PC dread - Not so hot. I got lucky and hit a bit more than usual with the missiles, but I'd like to find some other weapon option here.

Thoughts?

[Morticon]

Thoughts on maelstrom missions?

[knife&fork]

Thoughts on maelstrom missions?

 

Sure, or just general tweaks and adjustments. But if anyone spots some clever trick to pull with warlord traits or scoring or whatever I'm all ears.

 

 

Speaking of the missions. I didn't do it on purpose but we found out as we were playing that this list denies a lot of the opponents cards due to its unusual composition. Certainly helped keeping that massive spread in VPs.

There's just one character in the entire list, he's strong and well protected.

Everything is fearless or a vehicle.

No fortification, no flyer, no psyker, no super heavy.

 

I think there was 6 cards out of the 36 that weren't doable and a bunch that are more difficult than usual to pull off. A few of these hinder me as well, but on the whole I came out on top.

 

Perhaps as we get more experience with 7th, scoring denial of this kind will become a factor when building lists?

[Remtek]

"Reclusiarch - AP4 sucks but the rerolls are vital and the 4++ kept him alive."

 

You can replace pistol with a pfist for 15 points

[knife&fork]

I might try to find points for that! 

 

Another test game or two planned for the weekend. 

 

I'm going to try another podded dread first, then maybe shuffle some points around for a fist. 

 

List will look like this:

 

Reclusiarch

3 * fragioso with melta and grapple. Pod with locator beacon and deathwind launcher

10 * Deathcompany, 1 axe, 1 fist

land raider redeemer dedicated transport

DC dread with talons, melta, flamer, grapple and pod with storm bolter

DC dread with fists, melta, flamer and pod with storm bolter

2 * Heavy dread, twinlinked autocannon and twinlinked las cannon

Heavy dread, pod

 

The question is, do I go with a multimelta or TL heavy flamer on the heavy support dread?

[Morticon]

MM. I say MM.

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You got your wish! :P

So today I had another test game, unfortunately my second game was cancelled.

I ran the following:

Reclusiarch

3*frag dreads, grapple, melta, pod with beacon and DW launcher

10 DC, 1 fist,1 axe

Land raider redeemer

DC dread 1, fists, melta, heavy flamer in pod

DC dread 2, talons, melta, grapple in pod

2*Dread with TLAC and TLLC

Dread with Multimelta and heavy flamer in pod

I decided to go with a MM and HF dread to give me some flexibility for the alpha strike. I'd rather not commit the DC dreads on turn one but being able to save a frag dread for later is useful.

MM and HF is not as good as a frag dread but can be played against similar targets and also doesn't have to deploy as aggressively when it arrives thanks to the longer range.

My opponent this day was a mixed Salamanders + GK list with two pods and plenty of melta. Fun because I don't get to face other reserve heavy lists normally.

Maelstrom missions (start with 4 cards, discard 1 at end, draw up to 4 at the start of turn), DoW deployment. We placed Objectives in a zig zag pattern down the middle as expected from two fairly aggressive lists.

I won the roll for choosing side and gave him the one with the most cover. Figured I'd probably be going there any way so might as well get that sweet 4+ cover save when possible. Also hoped I'd bait him into clustering around the different ruins making it easier to get good frag-shots and dividing his units across the deployment zone.

I then lost the roll for deployment and had to start setting up. I elected to null deploy and gamble on good reserve rolls turn 2. He did a fairly standard deployment and didn't fall into the false security of the ruins as I had hoped.

First turn neither of us did any real damage. Turn two I get all my reserves, 6 of them come on at once, and things got ugly. I made some lucky cover saves and he had some of the worst rolls I've seen in while. Like 6 melta shots on dreadnought rear armour resulting in 2 glances, missing all of his attacks against the DC and rolling a 1 for LoS five times in a row...

http://i.imgur.com/tYlm5UK.jpg?1

The Pain-Train has no brakes!

(centurions did not survive 2 frag cannons, MM snipe from the roof, TLAC from land raider and charge from the DC. Go figure)

I lost a total of 3 dreads (1 heavy support, 1 furioso, 1 DC) from HPs and that was it. Didn't have to take a single model off the board. Had him down to only a storm talon on the last turn for a final result of 19-4 in VPs.

I think I would have won even without that bad luck on his part but not by this much, that's for sure.

Quick unit evaluation:

MM Heavy support dread worked just as intended, he's a keeper. He dropped in on turn one and immediately ran up two floors for a nice and safe elevated position where he could MM snipe.

Wasn't careful with my DC dreads and nearly lost both. Have to slow play these a little more often and not worry so much about doing damage on the drop.

The TLAC and TLLC dreads continue to impress. When I first put them in the list I figured that they would be overpriced (they are) but they deliver against all kinds of targets. On both games so far they haven't had a single shot directed their way which helps.

Not sure if I'm going to change much as the list works pretty well as it is. Will try to get a practice game in against a knight list as I need to see if I can deal with that.

[Morticon]

Are you allowed to play FW? 

 

If yes, would you consider the Istavan V Drop Site massacre legacy on the raider??

[knife&fork]

I would! But then if FW was allowed I would run my raven backed up with a caestus ;)

 

Restrictions are as follows:

No super heavies except single knights and stompas

No data slates or formations

No fortifications

No forgeworld

No more than 3 identical unit entries outside of troops

2 detachments max

max 4 flyers/FMCs

All battlebrothers from different factions count as allies of convenience

[BloodTzar]

Caestus any good? :)

 

On the other hand very nice list ! Moreover very nice game #1

[knife&fork]

Caestus any good?

On the other hand very nice list ! Moreover very nice game #1

Thanks! It's very fun to play.

Caestus is ok I guess, it was one of the few vehicles that got worse at ramming when 7th came out.

I mostly like the way it looks.... and the fact that you can ram stuff with a flyer! :P