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Flint13

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Unfortunately, Khârn: Eater of Worlds is set after the Heresy (right before Skalathrax), and Brond still retained command of the 17th at that time.

According to canon, he was killed by Khârn in "Chosen of Khorne", which takes place in a non-specified moment inside the Eye of Terror.

I'd also like to stress the importance of why he (and Tarugar, one of the Devourers) gets killed: the Blood God wanted no Khornate Lord to command because he held a high rank in the Legion of old, but out of belligerant and fighting dominance alone.

He literally hunts down every high officer of the Legion.

This fact is pretty heavy, since it supposes every Heresy-era Centurion (or Praetor, though such a figure seems not to have existed in our Legion) to be dead.

But then again, in Eater of Worlds we get a few interesting mentions: Solax is confirmed as the commander of the 3rd (he will fight on Armageddon and Cadia, so I guess Khârn didn't catch him :P), Hans Kho'ren commands the 19th which is already called "The Skull Takers" (they will fight on Armageddon -so Khârn spared him too?), Khargos Bloodspitter is said to have taken command of a company on his own, after killig its captain(but it doesn't say which company) and a dude named Zharkan is mentioned as the captain of the 48th.

There is also an ex chaplain who is now a "blood priest".

Do with these infos what you like, I'm just trying to be useful :)

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Alrighty, first post is updated with the 17th, 50th, 19th, and 48th companies.

 

@ K-Sci - Funny story, I just finished listening to it for the 3rd time on audiobook last night. 

 

I cannot overstate how much character that book brings to Chaos Space Marines. While there have been really good CSM books before, I don't think any of them have done such an amazing job of improving and fleshing them out beyond "evil spikey Astartes." 

 

I also am trying so hard not to drop everything and build a new Khornate Daemon prince for my very own little Ragged Knight :D

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I thought that the Echelons were divided into companies, or at least that's what this passage would seem to indicate-
 

As with almost all the Space Marine Legions, the XIIth at its creation followed the so-called 'Terran Pattern of organisation as formulated by the Officio Militaris at the outset of the Great Crusade... with its echelons (as its Chapter-level structures were commonly called) being biased in make-up towards line infantry formations.

 
Anyways, it's all academic. Personally, I prefer company-level formations as they seem easier to handle than a chapter.

Edited by The Psycho
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Oh, they definitely are. I wasn't saying it's either Echelons or Companies, just that it's strange that there are almost no mentions of Echelons that I have seen, considering how many people have been taking FW's input as god-given gospel, you know? Nothing wrong with it, but it's a curiosity that you never see, say, the 6th Company, 27th Echelon, or anything like that.

 

Granted, my own DIY fluff is that of an Echelon dropping down to Company strength.

Edited by Conn Eremon
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Brothers and sisters, I have returned after a short hiatus from the hobby. 

 

The entire infantry portion of my army is now complete. As for the motor pool, I have 2 Sicarans, 1 Spartan, 3 Scimitars, and 1 Javelin on my hobby table awaiting World Eaters colors. Then there is the matter of Angron and Khârn - they will most likely end up as display pieces that will never see action on the tabletop. 

 

Behold the XII Legion of old. Critiques will be most welcome. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/kxvkr4xnj/Full_Size_Render_1.jpg

 

The big man himself, along with his most faithful friend and future betrayer. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/iclepvivz/Full_Size_Render_2.jpg

 

The boss's Terminator bodyguards. All four are old hands - hence the Warhound iconographies. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/47flo29un/Full_Size_Render_3.jpg

 

The old-timer received a major firepower upgrade. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/ce7lfmzxb/Full_Size_Render_4.jpg

 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/czwkbquzj/Full_Size_Render_5.jpg

 

Ten Cataphractii Terminators (soon to be granted dedicated transport in the form of a Spartan) is a force to be reckoned with. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/4o5eo8mzj/Full_Size_Render_6.jpg

 

Heavy support squad for providing flexible firepower whenever it is needed. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/g1rxzfxi7/Full_Size_Render_7.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/hi3ghl0f3/Full_Size_Render_8.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/au6uuzgwv/Full_Size_Render_9.jpg

 

Fifteen-man assault squad kitted out with melta-bombs. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/frkfg3ivz/Full_Size_Render_10.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/ynq3zxkrj/Full_Size_Render_11.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/6mc2m8fhb/Full_Size_Render_12.jpg

 

Twenty-man tactical squad A. All have an additional CCW. Note the attached apothecary. 

 

http://s9.postimg.org/u33xl0127/Full_Size_Render_13.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/4llj1ejbz/Full_Size_Render_14.jpg

 

http://s9.postimg.org/9lnkn3ecf/Full_Size_Render_15.jpg

 

Twenty-man tactical squad B. Same as above. 

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@ Relict - That is fabulous work!

 

My favorite are the tacticals. They're so neat and orderly :D

 

Mind breaking down your recipes for blue and brass? They're both gorgeous. 

 

@ Everyone - 

 

Has anyone seen the new "Khârn's Butcherhorde" dataslate?

 

It isn't often something for 40k really catches my interest, but this is possibly the fluffiest, most fun thing I've seen GW do for CSM for quite some time.

 

Almost enough so to make me want to build my own little post heresy force of the Blood God :D

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@ Conn Eremon: You are right, Forgeworld states we should be reunited in echelons.

My opinion, by the way, is that in every work of fluff so far the big guys are all captains or centurions (Khârn, Delvarus... some of the most important people, in theory) with oversized companies, instead of "praetors" with more than a company to command.

My guess would be that the chapter/echelon type of organization fell in disuse for the more direct "you're a cool captain, you can have another 100 men" after Angon arrived to the Legion, pretty much like the Devourers and a lot of other stuff.

 

@Relict: As always, your models are beutiful and of great ispiration.

 

@Flint: I like it very much, though maybe deploying all those units in a standard game may be a little too expensive and you could'nt support them properly. 

But it's worth trying!

Edited by Kharn the Bloody
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If you look closely at the tacticals, you will notice that not all are painted according to the same standard. This was half accident and half intentional. My skills as a miniature painter grew during the armybuilding process. 

 

If you look at the picture of the tacticals with blue knee/elbow pads, those guys are the most "refined" products of my painting skills. Recipe as follows:

 

- Prime with GW Skull White

- Basecoats (use 1:1 ratio of paint/water): Ceramite White (armor panels), Kantor Blue (shoulder pads, backpacks, etc.), Abaddon Black (joints, cabling), Mechanicus Standard Grey (weapons)

- Drybrushing (use 2:1 ratio of paint/water): Teclis Blue (should pads, backpacks, etc.)

- Details and Highlights (use 2:1 ratio of paint/water): Leadbelcher (cabling, backpack vents/panels, weapon details), Sycorax Bronze (armor trims and details)

- Wash (1:1:1:1 ratio of Nuln Oil/Drakenhof Nightshade/Lahmian Medium/water) applied to the entire model

- Apply decals, then brush a thin layer of Future floor polish over the blue sections of armor

 

DONE! :D

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@Khârn: Yeah, it does say that the whole structure became more streamlined. Going by what is said, the gist of it that I got is that the echelons are relics of the War Hounds that Angron didn't bother changing. But, with the addition of the butcher's nails, the further, obsessive inclination towards assault infantry, and the rapidly rising threshold of acceptable losses under Angron's command, you begin to see the shape of the companies distort, and the importance of the echelon layer fade away.

 

Since my own DIY will has an important tie to their War Hound origins, keeping the echelon was relevant to them. But even then, after the battle that reforged them, they became little more than a distorted company.

 

As for the characters with captain ranks, I think it's a leftover from before FW began expanding on everything. From an outsider point of view, and someone with an inside look like AD-B could always prove me wrong, I think that when the Sons of Horus were written about in the opening trilogy, their dependence upon companies and captains became the standard for authors of other Legions. Which is a source of frustration for me, because it's almost like every Legion is nothing but companies, and feel way too homogenized. But, there are some steps away from that. Abnett has redefined how the Ultramarines utilize those formations, and given us the Wings of the First Legion. Abnett has a short with some very interesting tidbits on Space Wolf organization.

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When it comes to the World Eaters' organisation, I really like Khârn the Bloody's and Conn Eremon's explication, and it's certainly what I am going with for my own background: It always seemed to me like the World Eaters's way of fighting would make for huge losses in many battles during the Heresy, so trying to keep it all organised in a nice, clean Pre-Heresy way may have fallen by the wayside sooner rather than later, with a strength and achievement based command structure (i.e. if you were either successful in the pits or still alive after the latest battle, your company would get a serious new influx of members).

 

The source of frustration here is that the BL authors and FW writers don't seem to have exchanged notes when this was all developed -- I'm going with ADB's fluff, though, both because it's awesome and because I really appreciate his stance on having the background as a way of adding narrative, not taking it away from hobbyists when the "official" writers put their foot down.

 

As for Khârn going after the legion's ranking officers, that actually suits my background fairly well, because I was going to have Lorimar seriously wounded at Skalathrax in a fight against Khârn when trying to evacuate the planet with the remains of his company -- so Khârn did try to get him, but didn't quite succeed -- works for me :wink:

Edited by KrautScientist
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In one sense, having official characters be handled in this way can hurt the 'shared canon' between hobbyists, especially when you have two hobbyists who contradict each other just by having their armies exist. However, that sort of mentality has been far less present over the past few years (which was, in fact, the catalyst that got me to forsake my lurker status). A while ago, the idea would have been ridiculed to no end because of it's 'canon-breaking' nature. But, as the idea of 'loose-canon' has become more widely accepted, and people have just become more accommodating than they used to, these kinds of criticisms can, and should, be dismissed. There's nothing stopping me, for instance, from laying claim to the 7th echelon, even though Furiosobath also lays claim (I'm not though). Though there's the contradiction now within the shared canon that this thread represents (the collected forces of the World Eaters Legion, past and present), it honestly doesn't hurt the community for this to be, and even then there are many excuses one can use to explain it away as not a true contradiction, from poor scribe work to faulty records.

 

In short, hell, kill Khârn and take his place if you want to.

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@ Conn Eremon: You're absolutely right, of course, although I think there's a middle ground: The main reason why I love ADB's books so much, apart from the fact that they are great reading, is the way he deals with such seeming contradictions in the backgound: It's always a matter of multiple, often unreliable sources presenting their point of view. Sometimes stuff gets resolved, but often enough, people end up being alive and dead at the same time, because there are claims that go either way. And during the dark and troubled times of the Heresy, with so many battles going on at the same time, who is to say that there haven't been multiple seventh echelons, 4th companies or what have you?

 

That said, it's still stupid when an author seemingly goes out of his way to insult the hobbyists by creating their take on the "official" version, blocking out all other variants.

Edited by KrautScientist
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@ Conn Eremon: You're absolutely right, of course, although I think there's a middle ground: The main reason why I love ADB's books so much, apart from the fact that they are great reading, is the way he deals with such seeming contradictions in the backgound: It's always a matter of multiple, often unreliable sources presenting their point of view. Sometimes stuff gets resolved, but often enough, people end up being alive and dead at the same time, because there are claims that go either way. And during the dark and troubled times of the Heresy, with so many battles going on at the same time, who is to say that there haven't been multiple seventh echelons, 4th companies or what have you?

 

That said, it's still stupid when an author seemingly goes out of his way to insult the hobbyists by creating their take on the "official" version, blocking out all other variants.

 

Yeah, that's the kind of fluff I love too!

In my opinion, for example, Betrayer is an awesome book because it shows who the World Eaters are and gives context to your (my) own guys, without setting a limit for anything else that could pop in mind.

 

In one sense, having official characters be handled in this way can hurt the 'shared canon' between hobbyists, especially when you have two hobbyists who contradict each other just by having their armies exist. However, that sort of mentality has been far less present over the past few years (which was, in fact, the catalyst that got me to forsake my lurker status). A while ago, the idea would have been ridiculed to no end because of it's 'canon-breaking' nature. But, as the idea of 'loose-canon' has become more widely accepted, and people have just become more accommodating than they used to, these kinds of criticisms can, and should, be dismissed. There's nothing stopping me, for instance, from laying claim to the 7th echelon, even though Furiosobath also lays claim (I'm not though). Though there's the contradiction now within the shared canon that this thread represents (the collected forces of the World Eaters Legion, past and present), it honestly doesn't hurt the community for this to be, and even then there are many excuses one can use to explain it away as not a true contradiction, from poor scribe work to faulty records.

 

In short, hell, kill Khârn and take his place if you want to.

 

Come take my place, I dare you! 

Though I can understand why so many people would like it, my sofa is so relaxing....

:tongue.:

 

By the way, talking about our "shared canon", as I already said, it would be awesome to expand it.

I mean, KrautScientist's captain killed Relict's in the pits.

This is the coolest thing ever.

It makes little sense to have so many of our heroes here and nobody knows who the heck the other people in his legion are.

No friends, no "we fought there together!", no rivals, no "I saw that dude, he's quite impressive/an idiot"...

We have a nice and productive community, we should definitely make the next step and elaborate :biggrin.:

Edited by Kharn the Bloody
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We're pretty much in agreement, Kraut, as the middle ground you mention is essentially what I was meaning by saying we have excuses available to turn true contradictions into seeming contradictions, something relevant and appropriate to the setting.

 

Khârn, that could be interesting. Perhaps suggest it for when the Inspirational Fridays return. Write a story of your own army interacting with someone else's, whether your army include official characters or forces, or DIY.

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I think that would require both of the army owners to collaborate in order to see their caratchers  properly represented.

An easier alternative  would be doing codex-like entries, for which a few pms of conversation should be enough.

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@ Conn Eremon: Oh yeah, we're definitely in agreement! I just wanted to elaborate on the kind of fluff I prefer versus the kind I don't like (let's call it the school of "my fluff is better than yours because I happen to work for GW, nya nya nya!" :wink:

 

 


By the way, talking about our "shared canon", as I already said, it would be awesome to expand it.

I mean, KrautScientist's captain killed Relict's in the pits.

This is the coolest thing ever.

It makes little sense to have so many of our heroes here and nobody knows who the heck the other people in his legion are.

No friends, no "we fought there together!", no rivals, no "I saw that dude, he's quite impressive/an idiot"...

We have a nice and productive community, we should definitely make the next step and elaborate :biggrin.:

 

 

That's exactly what I was trying to do when I suggested to Relict that Lorimar was the one to kill Voss -- and it worked, at least for me, because it added another angle to Lorimar's character: He saw Voss as a relic of the legion's past and as a nuisance, because Voss's levelheadedness was enraging to Lorimar, who had really given into the madness at that time. Later, after Skalathrax, Lorimar realised that Voss had been right about the legion's fate, and it's pretty likely that he secretly regrets the role he played in Ixion's plot against Voss. By the same token, I have this half-formed idea that Lorimar and Biohazard's Captain Deimos have some history together: They used to be close friends, yet Skalathrax changed that: Deimos implored Lorimar to stay on the planet, in an attempt to stand up to Khârn's rampage, yet Lorimar decided to cut his losses and rather save his company than attempt to keep the whole legion alive. Deimos never forgave him for that, and so there's quite a bit of tension there.

 

In short, tying together different hobbyists' background can be a really cool project!

 

 

EDIT: Speaking of which, if any of you should want to mention Lord Captain Lorimar in your background in whatever capacity (even if it's just a throwaway line somewhere), my idea was that other World Eaters warlords would basically fall into one of the following camps:

  • those who respect Lorimar as a powerful warlord and either appreciate the fact that his company is still somewhat functional or are even envious of that very fact.
  • those who consider Lorimar "not Khornate enough", because he tries to keep the madness of the nails at bay -- at least to some degree
  • or those who refer to him as "Lorimar the Craven", the only World Eaters commander to ever retreat from a battle instead of standing his ground at Slakathrax (even if that would have meant the sundering of his company).

I like the idea that each of the other WE warlords might be seeing this slightly differently, depending on their own role at Skalathrax or on how far gone they are due to the nails...

Edited by KrautScientist
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You know, I never contemplated what the Eyes of Tivan would be doing at Skalathrax, or if they'd even be there. On one hand, their attitude of forsaking the Legion that was no longer theirs makes me think they would simply not be present, as I see their breaking at Terra as being the catalyst.

 

On the other hand, the Eyes of Tivan are the embodiment of that Khornate commandment: Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows. They represent it through copious amounts of fratricide, to the point that they are known as the group that will as likely try to kill you as the enemy. They're really only tolerated because there are just enough overly prideful Chaos Lords out there to think themselves immune to their threat, and they would be doomed if that ever changed.

 

Seems rather fitting that they be present when Khârn hits that same breaking point himself.

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I saw the edit just now.

I still have to definite what the Merciless will become in the Eye of Terror, but they will be definitely not led by Thanatos.

At the time of the Siege of Terra, I imagine him as little more than a miserable bloodbeast with nothing of his former self to be put down in the most epic way possible.

For me, he represents the Warhounds' nobilty sacrificing itself to Angron and falling to the lowest of the low.

Somewhat the role of command will go to Drakon, a sergeant during the Heresy, who retains at least a very small kind of control on the nails and therefore is still able to coordinate his brothers after 10k years.

I'll keep Lorimar in mind when I'll expand my Warband's fluff in 40k, no doubt.

 

I'd also like to post some of Tibby's fluff, let me know what you think... I'm still not sold on him to be honest.

 

Tiberius Thanatos, Commander of the Merciless

http://s9.postimg.org/lc0efpdbj/103_1924.jpg

First born son of a Terran tech-barbarian warlord, Tiberius Thanatos was taken as a tribute and recruited in the Emperor's 12th Legion after his father was cast into submission at the end of the Unification Wars.

He swiftfully emerged from the ranks, being the exact kind of officer the twelfth needed at the time: a brutal, cunning but noble leader driven by his own pragmatic honor code, as he had been raised up to be when he was meant to inherit the mantle of command in his tribe.

When the 16th Company's Centurion died in the Siege of Hierotzelem, Tiberius won command over the Merciless by defeating every other pretendant in the ritual fights that followed: not yet satisfied, he also challenged those of the other two companies attached to the 32nd expedition along with the 16th, who had also lost their respective Centurions during the Siege.

Bending or killing every opponent, he found himself alone to command a battleship and -at full strenght- three hundred Astartes, a position that would later be confirmed with a laughter of approval by the Primarch Angron.

In the following years he proved himself a skilled void commander and a warm brother for all of the 12th Legion, respected for his insight and martial sense of humor as well as for his physical resilience and hand-to hand skills, but he was never animated by the same fervour some of his brothers had towards the Emperor of Mankind.

To Tiberius he was a distant, brutal tyrant who destroyed the life he was meant to live and whom he was forced to serve by lack of choices.

This is why when Angron came to the Legion with his tragic story and his bloody warrior code he was seen by Thanatos as a similar soul to him, and easily won his loyalty over that for the Emperor.

In Angron, Thanatos found a true leader to follow, someone he would gladly fight for, and who would also later give him the opportunity to stand against the Emperor he so clearly hated.

Such was Tiberius' devotion to his genesire that he was among the first to volunteer as a test for the cortical implants soon to become widespread within the Legion, and it comes to no surprise that he followed him in the events of the Horus Heresy.

Unfortunately his Nails were a particularly strong device and degenerated sooner than expected: after the battle for Isstvan V they had already eroded much of the man he was, allowing him only glimpses of the leader his men were used to and turning him into a colder, killing addicted monster who gladly broke his former self on the same anvil that twisted his father, and would do so again even knowingly.

Edited by Kharn the Bloody
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What about organizing something specific to this thread? Here are some possible ideas we can think about:

 

In order to participate, you must also volunteer something of your own.

 

What you volunteer can be up to you, from your entire army, to a specific task-force. From your Chaos Lord, to a single Legionnaire. From something important and integral to your lore, to something you have created specifically for the community to take.

 

Whatever it is you volunteer, provide the community with enough background for someone to understand it and be able to write something about it. Things like character traits. Let us know if you need something to survive, or if you don't mind if it doesn't. Let us know if there's something in the background that has not yet been given an explanation. 

 

Choose something that someone else has volunteered and write something that includes something of your own army and whatever was volunteered.

 

For instance, let's say somebody has a Chaos Lord they volunteer. He uses Khârn's model, but has made up the bare arm to look like a bionic replacement. The Lord needs to survive up to his current lore, but no explanation has been given to explain how he lost his arm. The Lord was belligerent, stubborn and confrontational, but has since tempered this into a controlled fury. So somebody else takes this character, and sees ripe ground for a pit-duel between Lords. After the pit duel, the volunteered Lord has lost an arm, and has had it hammered into his head that his own mind was his weakness, and his stubbornness to survive leads him to change himself into something far more dangerous.

 

Alternatively, we can pair up. Have a period where people can submit some volunteers, and when it has passed pair everyone off. In this scenario, there can be more collaboration, with the pairs messaging each other and collectively building up a tale that includes both of their volunteered elements, to be submitted here. It can end with one piece co-authored by both, or each writes their own thing that may or may not be connected to each other, but were conceptually created together. We could make the pairing randomly chosen, because random can be fun and nobody will be sitting there twiddling their thumbs because nobody wants to pair with them. If there's an odd one out, one of the pairs can be made into a trio.

 

We should make it clear that there is no wrong way to write something volunteered, so long as it doesn't contradict one of the basic requirements you provide. And they should be made very basic to allow someone some breathing room to mess about. If someone writes something you don't like about something you volunteered, it isn't the end of the world. There is no canon in official lore, and there need not be in our own fan-made fluff either. There are many ways we can integrate these stories into our accepted lore, and it need not be a simple, wholesale addition. If you're really worried about it, make something up that you won't mind someone else messing about with. Might not be an issue if we go the collaborative route, but should still be said nonetheless.

 

What with Flint being OP and a mod, I'd think she'd be best suited to take charge of this, if willing.

 

If the idea takes off and becomes a hit, we might see it spread to the other Legion-threads, and perhaps jump to other subforums. I tried doing something relatively similar with the Liber Cluster, see signature, in the Liber Astartes subforum. It was wildly popular, much to my surprise, and so could this.

 

As an example, here's something I would be willing to volunteer, subject to change as this project idea changes:

The Eyes of Tivan is a warband that consists entirely of Possessed Marines. They had come across a world plagued by daemons that masqueraded as blood gods, and they took the blood gods with them when they left. They have been manipulated into thinking that they have a chance at being the fifth column in the games of the Ruinous Powers. By deliberately thwarting their own deity, Khorne, there stands the possibility of the game tipping far enough in someone's favor as to trigger the whole system to come crashing down. It's an illusion, a pipe-dream. But they bought it. And so their patron, Tivan, grows more powerful in Khorne's court by unleashing his pets against those of his rivals. And so often what you will see of my warband is them being a part of some greater collective of forces, until an ever-shifting point is reached. Then, the Eyes of Tivan unleash their fury upon all around them, whether it's the enemy or not, and will even turn around to march against their allies. Of course, I'm one who likes to step away from official lore, and this includes, for want of a better term, power levels. So, from the perspective of others of Khorne's court, the actual impact the Eyes of Tivan have had is minimal, and potentially even unnoticeable. Nothing ground-breaking or anything like that. 

 

So, what I would be willing to volunteer is a task-force of the Eyes of Tivan, and what I would like to see is how someone else's Warband encounters the perfidy of my own, and how they handle it. The task-force will not include the Chaos Lord, and may live or die, as the author who takes them sees fit. Everyone within the task-force can be created as the author sees fit. The Possessed are given historical hispanic and gaelic names, often both fused together, have had their secondary heart replaced with an obsidian stone that has turned their veins and eyes solid black. This stone is what holds the blood god they have been fused with. Their identities range from a pure amalgamation of the daemon and the Legionnaire, where no clear separation between the two can be seen, to unthinking, berserk monsters.

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Interest?

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