[HH1.0] Iron Warriors Tactics

[Nehekhare]

Losing one set of bolter shots when using a Cortex Controller is hardly a major loss.

 

No, but a minor inconvenience which can easily be avoided by not paying points for so-called benefits that hardly ever matter if you position your units carefully.

 

While we are imagining cool rules we could have had, I always thought we'd get something like an army wide -1 or -2 to enemy cover saves caused by IW ordinance attacks. That would be such a better rule than getting wrecker on grenades *eye roll*

yeah it's a turd: you can have all the re-rolls in the world, but a S6 krak grenade will never breach AV13/14 - which is the minimum for fortifications. It only matters for meltabombs, and those roll 2d6 already. At least the morale immunity is not totally useless (theoretically).

 

man just look at what those fists get. Can you feel our gene-father's bitterness now? them.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Nehekhare

[Raktra]

I'd rather not run the risk of someone being able to screw with how my units function by leading them on by outmanoeuvring me, really. That and needing it to actually take Cybernetica in the first place if you're too shy on points to add in an HQ choice to unlock them.

[Nehekhare]

I think you're overestimating the cortex controller. Many folks do. But Cybernetica programmed behaviour is not Tyranid instinctive behaviour:

 

- first of all: you move normally. enemies outmaneuvering you? either move in and destroy or move away and ignore.

- may not run/sweeping advance. why run when you have 3 guns to shoot and I3 isn't going to sweep much anyway. minor inconvenience, same with cataphractii.

- has to shoot closest enemy when within 12". boltguns shoot normally at 24", flamers are templates.

- must attempt to charge when within 12" BUT will still only charge units fired at.

- may fire 3 instead of 2 weapons. boltgun + 2 flamers - why settle for less?

 

2nd: NEVER waste heavy support slots on castellax (or any slots on Thallax), which you'll need for havocs, scorpii, preds and medusae. Instead, ally a battlebrother Archmagos that kicks ass while providing unkillable stubborn Ld 10 to your Legionnaires to get objective secured murder robots and spend another 2 rhinos on 20 of the cheapest possible troops (adsecularis).

Edited December 4, 2014 by Nehekhare

[Raktra]

It's the charging the nearest unit that irks me. It's the same way people used to yank Death Company about, and it was a pain.

 

EDIT: And being able to repair them is handy.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Raktra

[Nehekhare]

it big bad murder robots. whatever you charge will usually die regardless. but really, you have a lot of control with movement and shooting.

 

the problem with repairing is that you have to get the battlesmith in base contact, yet he may never join monstrous creatures. so either you're alone and get shot or you're in another unit and the whole bunch screams "pie plate us now!". and then it's only 1 wound on 1 robot on a 5+. meh. as if 4 wounds wasn't enough. 

[Brofist]

I'm 100% with Nehekhare on the Castellax assessment. Always ally those bad boyz in instead of taking them as heavy support. IWs only real advantage at the moment are being battle bros with some of the best allies in 30k. It even makes sense to play admech and just ally in IWs thanks so you can use both our special units at the cost of only a single mandatory troops choice.

 

On a side note, I really like an Archmagos with the mechanator array. 3+ to repair robots or your own vehicles is really damn helpful. Considering you get 2 attacks with that upgraydd that means you can do any combition of Repair, Robot Magic, or Shoot Gun in your turn. From the games I've used him in I almost wish he had a darkfire cannon of his own to take pot shots at enemy models. The conversion beamer is just really expensive.

[Nehekhare]

+2 axe attacks, flamer + inferno melta pistol, +1 toughness, +2 repair - the machinator array may even be THE best upgrade in the game. Why waste points on half-arsed techmarines/forgelords? The original boys in red know how to do it right.

[Naryn]

So, since this is the Iron Warriors tactica, what's everyone take for their three (or four) heavy support slots?  This is what I like to bring:

 

10 missile Havocs

 

3-pred squadron with las sponsons, one with executioner turret

 

2 Medusas.

 

If I'm playing at a high enough points level for me to consider Hammer of Olympia, I bring a Caestus Ram as well.

[Nehekhare]

Not bad. Wouldn't mix turrets in pred squadrons, though.

Put those havocs on a bastion or bunker with ammo dump.

For smaller games, consider a whirlwind scorpius - single tank, but best points : destruction ratio.

Leave the Hammer at Olympia, the disadvantages outweight the benefits.

I bring a Thanatar Siege Automaton as my 4th HS slot,  ;)

[Memento Of Prospero]

Not bad. Wouldn't mix turrets in pred squadrons, though.

Put those havocs on a bastion or bunker with ammo dump.

For smaller games, consider a whirlwind scorpius - single tank, but best points : destruction ratio.

Leave the Hammer at Olympia, the disadvantages outweight the benefits.

I bring a Thanatar Siege Automaton as my 4th HS slot, 

 

Thanatar require Mechanicum allies, which have their own slot.

[Nehekhare]

 

I bring a Thanatar Siege Automaton as my 4th HS slot, 

 

Thanatar require Mechanicum allies, which have their own slot.

 

 

I bring a Thanatar Siege Automaton as my 4th HS slot, 

 

 

 

[Naryn]

Not bad. Wouldn't mix turrets in pred squadrons, though.

Put those havocs on a bastion or bunker with ammo dump.

For smaller games, consider a whirlwind scorpius - single tank, but best points : destruction ratio.

Leave the Hammer at Olympia, the disadvantages outweight the benefits.

I bring a Thanatar Siege Automaton as my 4th HS slot, 

Nailed it on the bastion.  I have a bad habit of using lascannons as an emergency anti-terminator weapon, and the Executioner being the same S as the pred turret makes me not too hesitant to include it.

 

Scorpius is definitely awesome, but I feel like anything above 2000 there are better options available (see the Medusas).

 

I take Hammer of Olympia 3500+ exclusively, because that's where i start to feel the need for another troop choice anyway.  I don't take allies, and don't much care if the game is 5 or 6 turns, so I don't feel much of a disadvantage.

 

How does the Thanatar perform?  The model's awesome, and the rules look good.  Any trick to using it?

[FuzzyBunny]

I'm not sure why you all hate on Kyr so much. He's amazing, especially since he now has a Paragon blade instead of the relic. Paragon blade, 1 more wound over a normal praetor, a FNP of 6+, Iron Halo, the free servo arm attack at initiative 1, and some of the best support rules out there. You can't even come close to the bang for points from a normal praetor.

 

I love that guy so much I'm building my entire HH Iron Warrior army around him. As for the other HQs I have a Master of Signals, because reasons, a Primus Medicae, and a Seige Breaker just in case I don't want to play with Kyr.

 

Yes I realize Kyr gives out an extra victory point, I'm frankly okay with people gunning for him, he's  tougher than any stock praetor out there, and right up there with almost any named character. Plus he's down right killy. That extra servo arm attack is huge for helping swing attacks, plus don't forget shatter defense combined with Iron Havoks makes a piece of terrains cover save almost completely pointless..

 

As for my heavies when I'm running tanks it revolves around this:

 

Predators nestled behind an ADL in my deployment zone to take full advantage of Kyr's sexyness, ussually 2 Predators with lascannons and AC.

Vindicator or two.

Sicaran with some lascannons

Maybe a Spartan.

 

It's always 4 heavy choices, all with armor. The Hammer of Olympia Rite of War helps with armor in giving the free extra armor and the ability to really satuarate the field with lots of AV13 or better. Ideally I'll add to it with some Legion Medusa's, but I just don't have any yet.

 

When I'm not running my tank list I'll go with a standard Rite of War, or maybe even Pride of the Legion when I want to run my terminators with Perturabo. I ran that a couple days ago at 2000 points. 3 units of Cataphracti, Kyr as my required HQ in a pack of tacticals, a master of Signals in a pack of 5 Iron Havoks behind a ADL with a coms relay, and Perturabo himself. I cannot wait for the Tyrant Seige terminators.

 

As for allying in the mechanicum, I'll get some eventually. In fact I already have a couple castellex, but I just don't see where you "have" to have them, I'm doing just fine with mono Iron Warriors.

[Galron]

Kyr is awesome and I too built my army around him and the 77th Grand at 3000 points.

My Heavies are a 5 man Iron Havoc squad, a Caestus, and a Sicaran with lascannon sponsons. I also field a Glaive for a LoW.

[Brofist]

Kyr isn't a bad choice, but at lower points games 200 points that give up 2VPs isn't that sexy. He's also kitted out to be a support character, meaning he's 200 points of dude walking around not really getting into combat. A melee oriented character will be rough for him to deal with.

 

He's cool as hell though and does play up some of the legion strengths.

[Naryn]

Yeah, Kyr (like most of the best legion toys) shines in higher points games, where you can afford to drop 500 or so on the HQ slot alone.  He's awesome as a support, and as an anti-charge unit around things liable to be outflanked (backfield preds or havocs, for example).

 

Anyone put any thought into the Tormentor?  I love the thing.  It's not the best Lord of War choice, but it's pretty sweet and when you're playing 3000+ games, that S:D comes in handy.  I wish i could come up with a good use for the transport capacity.  Techmarine w/ servitors?

[Nehekhare]

 

How does the Thanatar perform?  The model's awesome, and the rules look good.  Any trick to using it?

not much of a trick. give him the targeting array and maybe paragon of metal, stand still and shoot at things within 12" of a servo-skull.

 

I'm not sure why you all hate on Kyr so much. He's amazing, especially since he now has a Paragon blade instead of the relic. Paragon blade, 1 more wound over a normal praetor, a FNP of 6+, Iron Halo, the free servo arm attack at initiative 1, and some of the best support rules out there. You can't even come close to the bang for points from a normal praetor.

It's always 4 heavy choices, all with armor. The Hammer of Olympia Rite of War helps with armor in giving the free extra armor and the ability to really satuarate the field with lots of AV13 or better.

 

When I'm not running my tank list I'll go with a standard Rite of War, or maybe even Pride of the Legion when I want to run my terminators with Perturabo. I ran that a couple days ago at 2000 points.

Wouldn't say hate, I actually like him. But he's 2 VP without 3++.

What I hate is Hammer of Olympia. I think there is a reason not a single Extra Armor was bought since the introduction of hull points and the +1 radip fire shot all too easily turns into -all attacks with a failed charge. HS slots are easy to get via allies or secondary CADs, you don't have to buy 300pts of tac marines and a VP-Warsmith or redundant siege Master. with Mechanicum, you get squads of Krios.

How's that TDA list going? I was thinking about an all-terminator orbital assault, but with Perty, 5 Tyrants and a cheap HQ half of the points are gone already.

 

Kyr isn't a bad choice, but at lower points games 200 points that give up 2VPs isn't that sexy. He's also kitted out to be a support character, meaning he's 200 points of dude walking around not really getting into combat. A melee oriented character will be rough for him to deal with.

 

He's cool as hell though and does play up some of the legion strengths.

exactly.

 

Anyone put any thought into the Tormentor?  I love the thing.  It's not the best Lord of War choice, but it's pretty sweet and when you're playing 3000+ games, that S:D comes in handy.  I wish i could come up with a good use for the transport capacity.  Techmarine w/ servitors?

One of my conversion projects that sits on the shelf because I'm confused whether you can still buy weapon upgrades for it (he comes without anything but the novels talk of bolter and lascan fire). The Stormsword (? the one with ignore cover) is the better choice but at this point I'd just field my Warhounds anyway.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Nehekhare

[FuzzyBunny]

Outside of mechanicum, which can be lacking in other things, how do you get a 3++? It seems to me that the normal is 4++ for your average praetor. That combined with the Paragon blade being the CCW of choice puts Kyr right back into the mix as he has that, plus an extra power fist attack.

 

Yeah, I get he's an extra victory point, but in every game I've played him he has completely wrecked face in close combat. Not one time did he sit back and just be a support character. Run him with a squad to absorb wounds in CC and he pretty much sorts stuff.

 

The TDA list at 2000 points was so stupildy good that Perturabo pretty much decided the game on turn one. It was only one game, at 2000 points, and my opponent choice to not bring a LOW even though he knew I was bringing Perturabo.

[Nehekhare]

Imperial Farts get 3++ vigil pattern storm shields.

Iron Hands get cyber familiars for all characters.

Samanders get +1 invul shields.

 

I will try Vhalen with my mechanicum list now that the Master of Signals isn't allowed anymore, switching him with my Archmagos (degraded to a simple ordinator perhaps...anyone noticed yet their bombardment isn't barrage?). I also will play van Halen during the game. Still: what Warlord trait does he get? his unique one or shatter defense, which by RAW all Warsmiths are "given in place of their usual warlord trait"?

 

I was thinking about putting Perturabo with a command squad in a dreadclaw for a guaranteed turn 1 arrival, then teleporting tyrants with a cataphractii siege breaker and about 4 terminator squads with 5 combimelta and a chainfist each onto his homer. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by Nehekhare

[Galron]

Since we are talking TDA lists mine

Kyr Pride of Legion RoW

Cat Terms Plasmablaster, combi plas, powerfists

riding in a Caestus

Cat Terms AC, combi bolters, powerfists

Spartan with obvious flare shield and ceramite

Tyrants terminators x5 with one chainfist

Tyrants terminators x5 with one chainfist

iron Havocs x5 missile launchers

Sicaran with lascannon sponsons and ceramite

Glaive I think it has ceramite

 

Trying to figure out how to include a bastion for the havocs. Not intended to be super competitive. I do have the models for another cataphract squad.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Galron

[Galron]

repeat post

Edited December 8, 2014 by Galron

[FuzzyBunny]

His Warlord trait is the ability for one unit to re-roll shooting rolls of 1 as long as they are deployed, and stay, in your own deployment zone for the game.

Edited December 8, 2014 by FuzzyBunny

[Naryn]

Anyone bring any unusual inclusions, stuff you wouldn't expect to see in an Iron Warriors army?

 

 I've been fielding a five-man squad of bikes with melta bombs, a sarge, and a power weapon (coincidentally exactly 200 points...), and they're pretty good.  It's nice to have some speedy, hit and run Anti-Tank, that's for sure.  

[Kossaka]

 

His Warlord trait is the ability for one unit to re-roll shooting rolls of 1 as long as they are deployed, and stay, in your own deployment zone for the game.

 

That's why I like Kyr so much, hes gives the ammo dump (I think) perk  from the bastion to a unit and allows it to re-position in your deployment zone so the enemy cannot stay out of range, and your unit cant be pinned down by enemy units. 

I've started to look into running Golg instead with a huge brick of cataphratii terminators Power fists and Combi-Weapons and a Primus Medicae to serve as an anchor for my main force. all of it can deepstrike if I take the Orbital Assault RoW or I can stick them in a spartan. 

 

Question, With the new FAQ it states that we can take combi-weapon grenade launchers. Do Iron Warriors apply our legion rules with grenades to Grenade launchers as well? Or are grenade launchers not worth it and Id be better off taking the regular combi-weapons.

[Kossaka]

Anyone bring any unusual inclusions, stuff you wouldn't expect to see in an Iron Warriors army?

 

 I've been fielding a five-man squad of bikes with melta bombs, a sarge, and a power weapon (coincidentally exactly 200 points...), and they're pretty good.  It's nice to have some speedy, hit and run Anti-Tank, that's for sure.  

I've been really liking jetbikes with melta bombs and Shrapnel Bolts on the HB's. they give me some ridiculous mobility that I've been missing in my lists. they can pin infantry for my main force to move up and they threaten enemy tanks rear armor with the mobility they have.

 

3 jetbitkes, Shrapnel Bolts, melta bombs, multi melta, sergeant, powerfist - 190 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Kossaka