[HH1.0] Iron Warriors Tactics

[Skullheart]

Sorry, still a bit confused on Cortex stuff.

 

Exactly what models can you bring to use robots, Iron Circle included? Is it only Praviens and Perturabo? Can any other model(s)?

 Any IW Warsmith, Forgelord or Techmarine can get a Cortex Controller for 15 Points. Plus Kyr Vhalen and Perturabo have a Cortex Controller. (Age of Darkness Legions Book p. 19)

 

When you field a Cortex Controller you can bring1 AM unit as a heavy support choice for each Cortex Controller u have in your army (optional HS  rule Army List book p. 131) Keep in mind that these cannot be joined by your characters.

 

Exceptions are:

- the Iron Circle can be joined by a single IW character or Perty.

- the Previan can take AM robots as part of his unit.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Skullheart

[UtariOnzo]

How viable do you think warhound titans are at 3k? At 750 points, while a sink, it seems at the least to be moderately comparable to some legion’s Spartan+Praetor+elite unit of choice in terms of investment.

 

My idea is to expand on my Kyr army from last year and start trying to theme it towards the mix of units from the actual campaign. Would a warlord be too much of a points sink, or too oppressive for my opponant to deal with at the 3k level?

Edited March 12, 2019 by UtariOnzo

[Charlo]

How viable do you think warhound titans are at 3k? At 750 points, while a sink, it seems at the least to be moderately comparable to some legion’s Spartan+Praetor+elite unit of choice in terms of investment.

 

My idea is to expand on my Kyr army from last year and start trying to theme it towards the mix of units from the actual campaign. Would a warlord be too much of a points sink, or too oppressive for my opponant to deal with at the 3k level?

 

Do you want friends? Because that's how you lose friends :P

 

Totally viable at 3K, but quite harsh!

[UtariOnzo]

That was the fear, hence the question! :)

[Slips]

It depends on the weapons, really.

 

If you're like me, you'd only ever go Double Turbolaser because thats the most efficient and worthwhile loadout because S:D but that will gain you more scorn than friends.

 

If you go for the Plasma Blastgun/Inferno Cannon/Melta Cannon/VMC, then its more tame.

[Indefragable]

Let's talk Terminators* in IV Legion lists, whether in Pride of the Legion, or via Golg**.

 

I have so far run 5 man Cataphractii with 3x combi-meltas and chainfists for some extra armor hunting.

 

But the idea of taking 3x units as Troops with one of the above options sounds fun. I've been considering volkite + lightning claw on each dude, with maybe a chainfist in each squad. Viable?

 

Secondly, I've always thought of IV Legion as a "heavy" legion and thus Cataphractii....but it dawned on me that the slight mobility of Tartaros might actually be better suited for the ever so slight mobility they offer. Besides the fun modelling opportunities, is there a clear cut synergy for us besides the obvious 4++ of Cataphract vs the ability to Run/Sweep as Tartaros?

 

 

 

*of the non-Siege Tyrant variety

**he is the easiest conversion of all time...literally the Captain in Cataphractii armor from the Calth box...bald and everything!

[Gorgoff]

I trashed my first attempt to answer, but now I try again.

 

Five men Terminator Squads with Combi-weapons should ALL get one. Simple math:

If three are shooting, only two hit and if you are over 6" only one may penetrate.

That is nothing.

So all or nothing.

Trust me, my 5 men squad with Combi-meltas killed a Spartan (which hadn't Armoured Ceramite) with one volley one week ago. ;)

 

Volkite Chargers are cool, sure, but don't do enough against MEQ. If you play a lot against more fleshy enemies like IM or Mechanicum with a lot of Secutarii or Thralla they may be worth it.

Depents on your local meta.

Against other marines they should hop out of some kind of deep striking device like Termite or Dreadclaw and then shoot in the rear armour of vehicles.

Lightning Claws are obviously good against marines but in my humble experience Power Axes are as good and can kill TEQ too.

My to go tank hunters look like that:

4 Cataphractii with Combi-meltas and Power Axes + sergeant with Chainfist and also CM.

That's it.

Don't waste points on stuff they don't need.

Power Mauls work fine, too, because that makes it easier for them to bash vehicles after they've spend their Meltas but limits their output in cc against MEQ and TEQ.

 

 

Tartaros are great in Zone Mortalis games. There the lack of 4++ isn't such a big deal and their extra mobility comes in handy.

My take on those kind of games is the following:

RoW is Zone Mortalis Assault Force.

Tartaros starts the game on the board (remember that in ZM you have to split your force) and Cataphractii stay in deep strike reserve.

That way the Tartaros can run in the first turn and gain some ground and the Cataphractii deep strike in proximity of a vox. Usually carried by a Recon Squad.

Works pretty well.

In a regular game I always put my Terminator Squads in Dreadclaws. That gives them the biggest possible tactical flexibility and protects them of their biggest foe:

Small arms fire.

Stuff like Volkite Culverine kill off TEQ pretty fast and even the humble Boltgun can make a difference when fired in masses at TEQ so stay out of their way.

 

Another trick to give TEQ protection and kindof mobility is to buy a Bunker with an Escape Hatch.

Put 'em in and get 'em out first turn. That way they leap up to 18" and can really make a difference from start. In that case Combi-plasmaguns are a good idea.

 

Golg is compared to other special characters or even the regular one very weak stat wise but he allows Terminators as Troops and is quiet good at killing walkers in close combat because of his WS6.

Just give him a squad to hide in and avoid challanges. ;)

[Gorgoff]

What are your ideas respective beating Daemons of the Ruinstorm?

[SkimaskMohawk]

I like a golg- terminator focus. His warlord trait is trash, but he doesn't have jealous command and the rest of his stuff doesn't rely on being warlord so he's a great character to plug into a list. Let's you save a bunch of vps in terms of having a warsmith (valen) with pride.

 

I've honestly been liking combi grenade launchers , but my main opponent uses a bunch of rhinos and javelins so there's more target saturation. Otherwise just chainfist all the time. There's no reason to not pay 10 points and have your model be able to hurt pretty much anything in the game.

 

As for daemons of the ruinstorm. I've played 1 game against them, and kind of lucked out in my list build, but basically; augury scanners, fleshbane and toxiferrum. You want augs on all your big guns. Havocs, tyrants, whatever puts out str 7+ damage; you want to be able to shoot their stuff before they psychic up their toughness. Fleshbane obviously works great too, all their big stuff is resistant to poison, but not fleshbane, and it obviously gets around toughness 8+. Toxiferrum strip blessings on successful wound rolls, so you want them on the dreads to actually be able to wound.

 

The tldr? Ally mechanicum; science doesn't lie and allows you to get lots of scanners and irad engines to permanently debuff toughness. Irad destructors are so good against daemons it's a little silly.

[Indefragable]

I keep daydreaming about Ironfire RoW, but--correct me if I'm wrong--we're limited to Rapier mortars and Basilisk/Medusa/Whirlwind for Barrage weapons that can fire for effect with that RoW.

 

And with a FOC, that gives us up to 4x Rapier units in Elites and up to 3x Artillery squadrons, meaning we have to have our Troops and Fast Attack units do the heavy lifting of the game. Don't get me wrong, but it's awesome to think about a couple bricks of Breachers/Tacticals moving up the board with the insane amount of artillery dropping in, but it doesn't seem to leave us with much in the way of dedicated Anti-Tank shooting outside of maybe Javelins/Flyers in FA. I know you don't HAVE to use all Elite/Heavy Support slots for arty, but--again, correct me if I'm wrong--to really make Ironfire work, you need to have as many discrete batteries of arty as possible, even before you account for casualties.

 

Anyone have a sample Ironfire list they recommend as a template?

 

Dare to dream:

Hidden Content

Perturabo + 4x Iron Circle

as much artillery as my wallet will allow

as many bricks of Breachers/Tacticals as wallet and points allow

Siege Tyrants and/or Iron Havocs to taste if there is somehow magically some points left

[Droz_64]

Aren't artillery squads 0-1 though? I thought you could only have one.

[Charlo]

The other issue is that, while fluffy,. LOADS of rapiers is looked down on.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I ran a 2500 iron fire list right before quads got nerfed. It was disgusting.

 

Two tac squads in rhinos, 2 squads of recons, two separate quad mortars, two scorpius, 3 medusas, Cerberus. That was the core of the list; opponent conceded top of turn 2.

 

Rhino squads are there just to put things in close proximity for the markers, recons to provide nuncio support and quads to provide markers. Cerberus ruins armour.

 

You don't want to eat points up with direct fire stuff that's not lascannon+ tier like tyrants or havocs; use the large amount of barrage to kill vehicles that can be a threat. Also don't bring perturabo or iron circle, they don't add anything at all to the list.

 

Rapiers themselves are fair now, so don't really mind about loading up on them as they cut their output by 75%

Edited July 18, 2019 by SkimaskMohawk

[Gorgoff]

I ran a 2500 iron fire list right before quads got nerfed. It was disgusting.

 

Two tac squads in rhinos, 2 squads of recons, two separate quad mortars, two scorpius, 3 medusas, Cerberus. That was the core of the list; opponent conceded top of turn 2.

 

Rhino squads are there just to put things in close proximity for the markers, recons to provide nuncio support and quads to provide markers. Cerberus ruins armour.

 

You don't want to eat points up with direct fire stuff that's not lascannon+ tier like tyrants or havocs; use the large amount of barrage to kill vehicles that can be a threat. Also don't bring perturabo or iron circle, they don't add anything at all to the list.

 

Rapiers themselves are fair now, so don't really mind about loading up on them as they cut their output by 75%

My experience with The Iron Fire was exactly the same. If the opponent can't stop your barrage weapons it gets worse from turn to turn because the battlefield is packed with markers and you won't scatter at all.

You can't imagine how powerful these weapons get when you can place them exactly where you want them. Horrific.

By the way: Leviathans' Phosphex Discharger is a barrage weapon, too, which raises a Leviathan in a Drop Pod to the next level of Rickdiculousness.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea, blast weapons are balanced by scatter. 100% hit ratio out of line of sight changes things immensely.

[Droz_64]

Time to go drop whatever absurd amount FW is selling Leviathans for and start running Ironfire.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd focus on the stuff that isn't one shot weapons. And doesn't compete with the rest of the barrage heavy hitters for slots

[MegaVolt87]

Post ITL VII, I am thinking of getting another 30 mk III power armor guys as troops that I could use for HH. My initial 30 troops are more appropriate for Scouring/ 40k era due to the cannibalized armor marks. My biggest issue is, what weapons should the sarge's have? Was just thinking the squad would have bolters and not be vets. I like my cannon fodder. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Cannibalized armour works fine for late heresy and especially fine for iron warriors. Read slaves to darkness and you can see how stretched their resources are, and this is a legion who's calling card was war logistics. An intelligent paintjob can remove a lot of extraneous detail too.

 

Sarges should always have fist and armour at a minimum. Squad can still have bonus ccw, so they can mob down units.

[MegaVolt87]

Cannibalized armour works fine for late heresy and especially fine for iron warriors. Read slaves to darkness and you can see how stretched their resources are, and this is a legion who's calling card was war logistics. An intelligent paintjob can remove a lot of extraneous detail too.

 

Sarges should always have fist and armour at a minimum. Squad can still have bonus ccw, so they can mob down units.

 

So arty armor, fist and a bolt pistol would be ok for all 3 sarge's? Its just my current 30 have some mk 7 and CSM bits as well, seems a bit not making sense for HH proper. Where would I have gotten mk 7 besides Siege of Terra/ Scouring onward? 

[Gorgoff]

I play mine as ten men squads in a Rhino with MM and Dozer Blade. The sarge gets a Melter Bomb and that's it. Maybe a combi-plasma to shoot from the hatch but only if I have spare points to spend. Works for me. Edited July 25, 2019 by Gorgoff

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Cannibalized armour works fine for late heresy and especially fine for iron warriors. Read slaves to darkness and you can see how stretched their resources are, and this is a legion who's calling card was war logistics. An intelligent paintjob can remove a lot of extraneous detail too.

 

Sarges should always have fist and armour at a minimum. Squad can still have bonus ccw, so they can mob down units.

So arty armor, fist and a bolt pistol would be ok for all 3 sarge's? Its just my current 30 have some mk 7 and CSM bits as well, seems a bit not making sense for HH proper. Where would I have gotten mk 7 besides Siege of Terra/ Scouring onward?

I have a lot of mk 7 in some of my units too. You don't notice it when it's painted the same. Late heresy also had mk 7 and the winged eagle in play, so things like savage of loyalists or raided mechanicum facility all work.

 

@gorgoff a lot of different builds work well for tacs. I find if you're going to blob them, the sarge should be able to be useful. I also find AA to be the best upgrade period; it pretty much warps whats acceptable to be taken as melee weapons and gives you a model to tank with against fire raptors and missiles, as well as Irad engines and other esoteric things

[Charlo]

I loath artificer armour tanking as a game mechanic, but I cannot deny it's effectiveness.

[Gorgoff]

@Charlo Doesn't work for me. That's why I seldom use AA on tactical sergeants. ;)

 

@Skima: Whenever huge blobs of marines are spoken of it takes me back way way back in time when internet was still new and so where nerd forums like this. We talking 4th edition or smth.

Anyway.

Back then some random stranger talked about playing an Ork army containing lots and lots of grotz. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that if you invest a big chunk of your force into those cheap-ish troops they have to make an impact on the table. They cannot hold back and just take some objectives.

They must fight and they must kill stuff.

And that statement stick with me ever since because it's true.

So you're damn right when you equip your tactical blobs with some stuff like powerfist, AA and additional close combat weapons. That way they can punch their way through the board.

Of course they won't beat the opponents hard hitters, but that's not their point anyway. But they'll beat the :cuss out of enemy small units like Seekers or other specialists. They can kill most vehicles in close combat, walkers with AV12 or less and can shoot marines, humans, Sekutarii, Sisters of Silence or most xenos to pieces.

Good starting position and smart movement is key here. They should always stand in the way of your opponent and should use their footprint to their advantage.

I know I say it every time when someone talks about huge infantry squads but I do it anyway. A building like Bunker can take an Escape Hatch from where those big squads can get out turn one giving them a very big first leap onto the table.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Up until 8th, there's always been a way to abuse the wound allocation system. 4th and 5ths and early 6ths was way worse than 1 model protecting a squad until he dies. Because even though I mentioned it warps the efficacy of certain weapons, mixed weapon squads to get as many different models to allocate to was worse in 5th. You basically had to hold off shooting any non penetrating weapons or you'd find your 4 plasma wounds allocated to one model while the rest had bolters to worry about. That and it was impossible to kill characters or unit leaders off.