Valerian Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 So, I know that I'll probably take some flak for this, especially given that the publication hasn't even been released yet, but regardless the following is what I'd do differently with the codex if I were in charge of design. Assume that if I didn't address it that I was more or less satisfied with how it is in the new dex. V ------------------------------------- Army-Wide Special Rules Deep Strike: all non-vehicle Grey Knights units have the Deep Strike (via Teleport) special rule. Equipment Psycannon: the price for the Psycannon goes to a flat 10 points for all models in Power Armour. Grey Knight Grand Master Regain access to Servo Skulls (up to 3 for 5 points each) Grey Knight Brother-Captain Regain access to Servo Skulls (up to 3 for 5 points each) Librarian Regain access to Servo Skulls (up to 3 for 5 points each) Brotherhood Champion May select a Personal Teleporter for +25 points. Regain Herald of Titan Add Deep Strike special rule If a Brother-Captain is in the army list, a Brotherhood Champion may be taken without using an FOC slot. Castellan Garran Crowe Regain Herald of Titan Add Rending special rule Techmarine Price drop to o/a 60 points base. Still way too expensive for a 1 Wound model! Regain access to Servo Skulls (up to 3 for 5 points each) Paladin Squad Drop base price to 45 points per model Gain access to the Sanctuary psychic power from the Sanctic discipline, in addition to Banishment and Hammerhand. Strike Squad Strike Squads gain the Infiltrate special rule. They need something like this to make them relevant, again. This would represent their early arrival to bring on the rest of the Brotherhood, which is directly supported in the fluff. Purgation Squad Gain the Interceptor special rule Astral Aim - All shots fired by a Purgation Squad have the Ignores Cover special rule. Dreadnought Drop base cost to 100 points. Dreadnoughts may trade their Multi-melta for a Heavy Psycannon for + 25 points (using the Forge World Psycannon arm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 See GW, was that so hard.... Point reduction on dreadnought is the only thing I don't completely agree with, otherwise a very elegant codex fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Nice! I'd still add the increased LoS! for a Bro Champ. At least we get Locator Beacons on our generic Storm Ravens now. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'd still add the increased LoS! for a Bro Champ. I had considered keeping that in from our earlier work, but figured the Brotherhood Champion would be bogarting all of the Challenges anyway. I suppose it would still help with countering shooting attacks, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Point reduction on dreadnought is the only thing I don't completely agree with, otherwise a very elegant codex fix Our Dreadnought is 30 points more expensive than the Space Wolves one, for example, but only brings The Aegis and Sanctuary/Banishment (and I suppose one more Warp Charge) to compensate. They're already poorly balanced now (internally) against all of our other units, so figured the 25 point drop was fair...particularly given no more Psybolts. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I agree with most of these changes. One thing I'd add is that psycannons either go down to 5pts a piece for PAGK (not being able to charge after firing them is a real kick in the groin) or go to 10 (maybe 15) points and the change the range to 36". That way we could at least attempt to maintain some distance between us and our opponent. I really like added infiltrate on strikes. Definitely makes them worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I love it, and it makes me sad. This is what would make me like this codex, but it'll fall on deaf ears, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 I agree with most of these changes. One thing I'd add is that psycannons either go down to 5pts a piece for PAGK (not being able to charge after firing them is a real kick in the groin) or go to 10 (maybe 15) points and the change the range to 36". That way we could at least attempt to maintain some distance between us and our opponent. I really like added infiltrate on strikes. Definitely makes them worthwhile. I could definitely agree with 36" range for 10 points, given Salvo. That's pretty much exactly what they looked like in the 3e codex, right? (I'll have to go back and look, but they were something like that). I love it, and it makes me sad. This is what would make me like this codex, but it'll fall on deaf ears, obviously. I'll be retiring in less than two years - do you think they'd be up for hiring me if I'd work via Telecommute? No interest in moving to Nottingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I agree with most of these changes. One thing I'd add is that psycannons either go down to 5pts a piece for PAGK (not being able to charge after firing them is a real kick in the groin) or go to 10 (maybe 15) points and the change the range to 36". That way we could at least attempt to maintain some distance between us and our opponent. I really like added infiltrate on strikes. Definitely makes them worthwhile. I could definitely agree with 36" range for 10 points, given Salvo. That's pretty much exactly what they looked like in the 3e codex, right? (I'll have to go back and look, but they were something like that). I love it, and it makes me sad. This is what would make me like this codex, but it'll fall on deaf ears, obviously. I'll be retiring in less than two years - do you think they'd be up for hiring me if I'd work via Telecommute? No interest in moving to Nottingham. Only if you either give no effort ever, or only try on armies that are Space marine (read ultramarine) or armies with new models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 *edited* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenderleech Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The daemonhunter codex had psycannon as heavy 3 36 inch, or assault 3 18 inch. s6ap4 no invulns. I almost called it the old codex.. now is it the grandfather codex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Ive already expresses my opinion about deeps striking purifiers and purgation squads (unless the latter gets TDA ;) ) But I think reducing psycannons by 66% for PAGK is a bit much considering they can still remain stationary or hitch a ride. With terminators you pay extra for their versatility so perhaps I could rationalize it with a cost for thier deep striking ability. I'm on the fence with giving all ICs skulls as its quite a OM thing and would greatly increase the effectiveness of the nemesis strike force detachment. You also didnt mention psybolts. That would be the first thing I would change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I would give Psilencers rending even if they had to loose the Force special rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaardigan Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm wondering because its been the thing to do for new codexes lately, will we be getting a supplement of some kind?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm wondering because its been the thing to do for new codexes lately, will we be getting a supplement of some kind?? Another way of asking this question is, "Will we be sold the content that probably should have been in the original release?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 But I think reducing psycannons by 66% for PAGK is a bit much considering they can still remain stationary or hitch a ride. I'm proposing a 33% reduction on Psycannons for PAGK (from 15 back down to 10). By going to Salvo, Psycannons were made worse in every way; however, the price was still elevated for them in the new codex for Power Armoured models. I think 10 each is more than fair for a weapon upgrade that a) replaces your Storm Bolter and Nemesis Weapon, and b) halves your range if you move, and c) prevents you from charging. Also, hitching a ride won't help, as you still count as moving if you're shooting from the Fire Point of a Transport that moves at Combat Speed. I'm on the fence with giving all ICs skulls as its quite a OM thing and would greatly increase the effectiveness of the nemesis strike force detachment. In my opinion, it isn't that access to Servo Skulls will "greatly increase the effectiveness" of the NSF Detachment, it's that having something to make the initial deployment somewhat safer is the only thing that will make that Detachment even viable. It's risky enough to attempt a mass deployment from Reserves in the game - we should at least have something in place that will provide a chance of success, otherwise it's dividing your forces, coming in piecemeal, and risking Mishaps all over the board. Remember, that there is still some scatter (d6) even with Servo Skulls, and they can be removed by enemy maneuver, if he gets the first turn. And it's not like I'm really giving them to any characters that don't actually have access to them today (given that we're still on the 5e dex for 3 more days). I'm proposing a 'keep it' rather than a 'give them something new.' You also didnt mention psybolts. That would be the first thing I would change. Losing Psybolts certainly hurts, but I think if the recommendations in the Original Post were implemented, then we would be fine without them. Consider it meeting the actual design of the new codex halfway. I'm wondering because its been the thing to do for new codexes lately, will we be getting a supplement of some kind?? I've heard that we aren't getting a supplement, but we can really use one. It would be nice to have a handful of Formation choices that aren't "bring the whole Brotherhood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach03 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The concept of the Brotherhood Champion is one of my favorite parts of the Grey Knights army and he always seems to fall just short of being a contender. I really like the changes you propose with the new additions from the upcoming codex, it seems to put him in a strong spot. I have 2 ideas that might just be me wishlisting here. The first would be if he has Titan's Herald the master crafted sword is redundant for the most part and I think a return of the fifth edition anointed blade would be due. The second would be access to the relics because there's something awesome in my mind about a Bro Champ with the Soul Glaive (I have some halberds from my Empire Demigryph Knights that should look pretty awesome). P.S. Crowe should have 4 attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Echoing Val here. If we don't get some sort of; 1: Deep Strike penalty protection/reduction (Inertial Guidance, Servo Skulls, Decent of Angels, No scatter...) 2: Automatic First turn / Second Turn (Drop Pods, Dark Angels, First to the Fray - how hard would it have been to make that the Warlord trait for the detachment...) Then the Nemesis Strikeforce detachment is *pointless*. Becuase Battle Brother Drop Pods do it all. And so much better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Echoing Val here. If we don't get some sort of; 1: Deep Strike penalty protection/reduction (Inertial Guidance, Servo Skulls, Decent of Angels, No scatter...) 2: Automatic First turn / Second Turn (Drop Pods, Dark Angels, First to the Fray - how hard would it have been to make that the Warlord trait for the detachment...) Then the Nemesis Strikeforce detachment is *pointless*. Becuase Battle Brother Drop Pods do it all. And so much better... I've got to admit, I'm very, very disappointed in their token nod at our deepstriking reputation. Yes, Deepstriking on turn one is cool, and running AND shooting afterwards is cool. But a handful of bad rolls can leave your army scattered and your units isolated, and with our low model count even a single deepstrike mishap can be the end of the game. It's just so risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Weill I'd say; Inquisitor with servo skull and psychic communion is mandatory with that formation; otherwise I would not even bother with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Weill I'd say; Inquisitor with servo skull and psychic communion is mandatory with that formation; otherwise I would not even bother with it. I didn't start playing Grey Knights just to lean on a crutch of puny human weaklings. I don't mind using Inquisition tools, but not as a necessary crutch to make my Grey Knights work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I didn't start playing Grey Knights just to lean on a crutch of puny human weaklings. I don't mind using Inquisition tools, but not as a necessary crutch to make my Grey Knights work. Tough, GW have decided we're an Ally codex like Tempestus (ie good at our speciality, but unable to stand on our own). I agree with BloodTzar, the only real way for the Nemesis Strikeforce to not just derp Turn 1 into Mishaps (or terrible Reserve rolls) is to take a Comms Relay and Allied servo-skulls. Without that reliability, you'll be at the mercy of that one Reserve roll. And you know what the Dice Gods do to single critical rolls right? They roll a 1. Every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 See my Strikeforce Army list for an idea to not use the Inquisition. ;) Interceptor Teleport Homers for the win! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Ask and thou shall receive! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295565-gk-nemesis-strikeforce-1850/ ;) (It can be tweaked, just a starting point. I'd probably still prefer Unbound and SW Drop Pods, but /meh.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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