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30k Vehicle/Automata Concepts - Status Update

Knights

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#626
Iron Hands Fanatic

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Thanks IHF, that always helps the inspiration along!

I managed to get started on the track sections and the rough outline of the hull yesterday, but I'll sen some pictures your way once I have something worthwile to show smile.png

 

No problem, it's always cool to watch your projects happy.png

 

What kind of time scale are you looking at for completing these?

 

Currently: there is no time scale. I do this stuff as and when I feel like it, in whatever (increasingly limited) free time I have

 

That might change however, as I'll elaborate on in a bit (the post I've been mentioning will probably come tomorrow)


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#627
malika666

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Awesome! Speaking of Titans, I've been delving through FW's Horus Heresy books and found a few other classes:

 

1) Carnivore class (which I guess might be a similar size to the Reaver or Warlord)
2) Maines: maybe a warlord sized one?
3) Mirage: heavy battle titan


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#628
Iron Hands Fanatic

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Hey folks, I’ve been alluding to a big update / discussion on what I’ll be doing with this stuff in the near future for a while, so here goes:

 

Thread Admin:

 

Okay, so I’ve been pondering reorganizing for a while – part of it’s driven by how bloated some of my older threads have gotten, and how my changing standards make a hard reset appealing. The other part of it comes from a professional capacity – now my Masters is winding down, I’m looking to go into freelance illustration at least semi-professionally, and various members have expressed interest in commissioning me over the years, so separating illustration work (iconography, character portraiture etc.) from my concept art / unit design would provide a good opportunity for portfolio / commission purposes.

 

The current plan is to make a new thread for illustration work (most likely with entirely new content save for a couple of iconography pieces) in the WIP forum that I’ll also use to showcase any commissions I do that are related to the content covered on the B&C.

 

The second reorganising aspect is consolidating rules / unit design into a single space. I’ve had separate threads for vehicle & infantry designs, 40k / 30k designs and further subdivisions over the years, and combining them into a single coherent thread will make my life easier, as well as allowing easier navigation for folks who follow my work. Any artwork related to these designs will go here too, but this will likely differ significantly in quality and style to the content in my planned illustration thread. I’m still ruminating on where to put this thread – while the Age of Darkness system is my current focus for this stuff, there’s always the possibility that I’ll branch out, and while I’m not sure this stuff qualifies as a special project, both that forum & WIP are appealing. Just to note, this isn’t necessarily an indicator that I’ll be continuing with this stuff apace, but that’s addressed further down.

 

The Future:

 

Yup, that’s a dramatic & ambiguous heading, but I’m still apprehensive about shouting about what I’m really considering: crowdfunding. Dithering aside, what this comes down to is the interaction between time pressures and my perfectionism.

 

I really enjoy doing concept work for 30k / 40k, and even when I have zero time to spend on it, I never stop coming up with ideas – I’ve become so immersed in the universe over the years its just what my brain does at quiet moments. But as I transition from my Masters to freelance art, I can’t afford to spare the time to do this stuff to the standard I’d like, and as a complete dumbass perfectionist, even doing high quality one-offs means I subsequently set that as my standard.

 

In terms of ‘quality I’d like’, honestly that includes well-written lore, points costs, formatting stuff as useable PDFs and *high quality* artwork. In that last case, I’ve only ever shared super rough work here, very basic stuff that translates my idea into a visual format as simply as possible, but I’d love to do more, especially when I’m considering designs that deviate more and more from existing miniatures.

 

Take for example the design I did a while back for heresy-era Lheor firefist – the initial plan was to produce a PDF page (in the same format as the Downloadable rules from FW’s site, so I’m not plagiarising any images) of rules with the art in the background. A year ago, that art took me 3 days. These are examples of artwork that took me a single day each from the last couple of months. If I was ever gonna follow through with the plan for Lheor, I’d want to do a full-colour portrait instead of that shoddy painting, and that’s the issue I have.

 

At the moment, I barely have time to write vaguely reasonable rules, and I find that the easiest part of the process. People ask me about timeframes for when I’ll finish unit concepts, and understandably want some form of art so they can envision designs that are entirely encapsulated within my imagination, but it sucks that I can barely scrape together the most basic showing when I could be producing much more polished content.

 

So I just wanted to put feelers out there to see if there’d be any interest in me setting up a Patreon or some such so that I can make the kind of stuff I’d like to without cutting into time I need to be spending on earning a living.

 

Concerns:

 

Admittedly this stuff does get a bit murky, so I’ll make some provisos: obviously with the B&C’s new policy on special & regular projects, I couldn’t continue to post work in progress content on the forum (those guidelines are what lead me to actually consider this route), but hopefully I’d still be able to post the completed profiles with artwork here. Additionally, all the stuff I’d produce would be 100% free and universally available – I’m just looking to offset the costs of dedicating time to making this stuff.

 

Copyright gets a bit tricky here – according to GW’s community guidelines this isn’t strictly viable, but that isn’t the same as meaning it’s not legally viable. Crowdfunding campaigns for GW IP-related projects already exist, and considering I’m already producing the rules and background at a slow pace in my own spare time, effectively this would be little different than commissioning an independent artist for the illustrations and formatting, which are practices that also exist.

 

I’d never reproduce rules that exist in published GW works - any PDFs would have directories of where to find referenced rules in their various publications, and I’d also make no copyright claims to any of the content.

 

I’ve also got concerns when it comes to my long-term ambition of joining the GW / FW design team – obviously this would likely jeopardise any chances of that happening, but when I consider how slim the chances of that happening are anyway, it’s a difficult call to make. I’ve already had one application turned down, and while I’d planned on applying again next year, I really don’t want to put my life on hold based on an unrealistic fantasy. Plus, let’s be honest – my real passion is for the Heresy, and FW don’t use concept artists, just miniature designers and illustrators.

 

Then I consider whether I even want to work for GW – I never got feedback from my rejected application, but part of me wonders whether the fact I explicitly stated my interest in GW’s attempts to increase the diversity in their range might have been an issue – every part of their careers process emphasises a ‘the company comes first’ mentality and its possible they read that as me being less likely to toe the line on moral issues. Then I consider reports of some stuff Tony Cottrell said at the last HH weekender and ask if I could ever justify working under someone who thinks it’s okay to spout that sort of horrendous garbage.

 

So I just want to explicitly say this is in no way a definite path I want to take. Even if I get an overwhelming amount of support for this idea, it’s entirely possible I’ll never go ahead with it – there’s lots of moving parts and provisos, so if this is something you don’t think is cool, that’s fine! I’m honestly mostly curious about whether people are interested enough in this to support it.

 

Crowdfunding:

 

I just wanted to set out in a bit more detail what me creating designs for 30k (and yeah, at first it’d only be 30k) might look like.

  • Firstly, the basic end-goal would be releasing PDFs of the unit rules I design. These would be styled after the very basic format of the downloadable rules from the FW website, and I’d make it explicitly obvious they’re unofficial.
  • These would include points costs so you could actually field them, background to situate them in the setting and high quality artwork to give a detailed visual overview of their appearance.
  • All this stuff would be entirely free to access & I’d try and format them to be as printer-friendly as possible
  • As I’ve currently got a decent back-catalogue, the first steps would likely be going through and releasing my existing designs, updating them as necessary, adding points costs and working from existing concept sketches
  • Moving on, if there was enough support I’d also be able to try more ambitious stuff: entirely new army lists for example (Legion auxilia anyone?), as well as stuff like dramatis persona in which I take background characters from the Heresy and give them rules and artwork (Lheor’s a perfect example here)
  • It might even give me a chance to branch out into other GW game systems, although with 40k and AoS featuring single-reference rulesheets, there might be some difficulty with not being able to repeat existing rules (again, I would *never* reproduce existing GW material – be it text or art)
  • In terms of backer / patreon rewards, I don’t want to produce exclusive content, because that goes against the whole point of this exercise, but I’m thinking stuff like a gated Discord channel where I’ll share work in progress rules / art so supporters could have more of an input on the creative process

Anyway, I’ve nattered on for long enough

 

Please let me know what you think – any concerns and input are welcome

 

And as always, thanks for keeping up interest in my various projects over the years


Edited by Iron Hands Fanatic, 17 June 2018 - 02:56 AM.

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#629
marine7312000

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I can definitely understand wanting to cover some costs. What about providing some type of raffle prize in conjunction with the crowd funding? You could do anything from a sketch for the winner to something more along the lines of "what ideas do you have for a new\ unique unit?" and working with them to flesh it out further. You could either tie how many entries you get in the raffle to the donation tier or just give everyone that donates one entry. Second thing, and something I would be more interested in than a discord, doing a monthly, or more often, poll that is locked behind donations for what everyone would like to see next?


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#630
Ryltar Thamior

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Thanks for the update, IHF :) I gotta say, after the somewhat .. foreboding vibes I got form some of your previous posts building up to that announcement, I was a bit trepidacious that i'd be hitting up the threaad only to see you announcing you'd suffered critical burnout as an artist and/or a 30k-fan so would be shutting up operations entirely. 

So obviously, i'm hella relieved that isn't the case. 

As applies your projected course of action ... yeah, it's a pretty legit idea. From a .. personal and artistic standpoint, I mean - I can't comment on the intricacies of the legal side of things. Although it *does* occur that if the payments in question were basically just "patronage" as it were to your general [and I specify the *general* here] artisticness , rather htan tied to specific 40k IP, I would find it rather surprising if this actually fell afoul of things. I mean - it's basically just people paying you because we like you [so to speak - I mean .. we do, but, you know hwat I mean] rather than a direct and specific exchange which results in you piggybacking on somebody else's IP to turn a profit for a service rendered. 

Those bullet-points you've placed toward the end of your post are pretty positive in that regard - as you're making it clear that you're *not* charging for the actual output produced, and its use of IP in that manner [although given the results of the Chapterhouse suit as I undersatnd them ... it's potentially a bit of a space/amenable grey-area anyway]. But rather, are mooting the notion of paying for access to you, while you talk about stuff with like-minded individuals, so to speak. 

[I also gotta say, as i'm just about to start making something heavily inspired by some Astartes concept you did maaaaaaany months ago now .. i'm very relieved that we won't suddenly find your output locked up behind paywalls and such] 

And having just commented on some legal bits and pieces immediately following a statement that I wouldn't be able to ... you may wish to actually get proper look-over of your projected operation by somebody who's a) actually a lawyer [I only have half a law degree and a reasonable amount of experience in fields of law unlikely to be relevant here], B) o-fay with the precise nature of hte law wherever it is you are in the world. 

But yeah uh .. leaving all of that aside .. the main thing I wanted to say is that I think it's a very good idea for you to set up a model wherein you actually get someting out of all this cool stuff you do that we all seem to like so much. I mean, a lot of what i do [irl] is volunteer work - stuff that I feel I have a moral or religious obligation to carry out. And despite the best possible motivations, as well as the seriously cool feeling when people respond both in significant numbers and overwhelmingly positively to something I've written, or we manage to 'shift the narrative' in the media/politics, or a legal situation starts trending up ... it's pretty draining putting in all of that work even on "labours of love"! 

With that in mind, you being able to actually see some tangible results of that appreciation from yer fanbase [and at this point .. it kinda does seem to be a fanbase] , well, it's good for your psychological health doing what you're doing, for a start. And that's before we get into the notion that you may find it easier to live and devote time to these wonderful endeavours if there's a bit of extra cash coming in here and there. 

Personally, my preference wiht where you'ev been going thus far, is the 'concept-work' so to speak - the exploration, the art, the fluff, the "this is how this works",  [I guess i'm after the *inspiration*?] rather than the precise black-letter rules; but that's because I don't really do non-narrative games so ruleswise everything's at least an extrapolation from tabletop rulse anyway for us. It may also turn out that this is eaasier to do than attempting to produce actual properly formatted up FW-esque rules-sheets from an IP perspective - but again, not an IP lawyer. [although I remember a rather amusing anecdote from Italian copyright law that .. we'll save for another time] 

But if creating rules and crafting *that* way is what you want to do, and where you get your enthusiasm from - then more power to you; and I gotta say - i've found your approaches in this area both innovative/refreshing, as well as pretty solid all up. i'm sure that other posters will agree. End of the day, ther's nothing stopping people from 'houseruling' back in official rules that you haven't been able to mention on a particular profile or whatever. 

In any case, I really do rather look forward to seeing how you handle som eof those "more ambitious projects". Particularly the Legion Auxilia and such - you had some pretty nifty concepts floating around awhile back for several of htem, and I also seem to recall a Steel Legion ground-up redesign or something you had in the works. I also did check your blog from time to time in the hopes that you'd posted some AoS or 40k bits and pieces, since i figured your imagination would be pretty legit in those contexts as well, maybe help get me hype about those periods/settings. 

Oh, and as applies "hopes of working at GW/FW" ... tbh, and with absolutely no experience of that particular corporate environment/recruiting practices whatsoever ... I'd actually ponder whether you going down this path is likely to be the .. abandonment of that dream which it seems like you think it might.

Let me put it this way: if you keep doing seriously awesome stuff, at a reasonable quality and rate of output - it's probably only a matter of time before it comes to the attention of various people in the company who're more on the "hobby/explore these universes" side of things as opposed to accounts. From there, it may very well turn out positively in terms of "why aren't we hiring this guy...". That's my optimistic take on things, anyway. 

Although as appies why your previous bid wasn't successful - well, considering how FW's gone in the last few months [with the Solar Auxilia range and other areas being 'trimmed' to put it mildly], i suppose it might be a little less inexplicable [to put it mildly] that you didn't at least get feedback on your portfolio work. 

I uh ... I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with Cottrell at an HH weekender - any idea what i should be googling?

And tha's another thing that's important - values and career path not being in disharmony. Becaues if they *are* .. weeell, that way some considerable stress lies, including perhaps tainitng the love of the hobby all up :S 

Anyway, that's a rather lengthy ramble of my own. However you choose to progress things, I hope they work out for you :) And i'm glad we're not losing you to fatigue *just* yet :P 


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Horus Heresy Inq-style (featuring truescale IVth and VIth; Remembrancers; Agents of the Sigillite; and more)
Inq28/Inquisimunda


#631
Iron Hands Fanatic

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Hey, everyone, thanks for the positive responses! I'm still keen to investigate the Crowdfunding option, although at this point my main concern is whether there's enough interest to make it viable.

 

With that in mind, my next step will be producing a couple of 'proof of concept' PDFs to demonstrate the kind of work I'm talking about (plus, seeing how long they take wil help me break down what amount of content would be viable at different funding levels) - I'm currently pretty busy with my end of Masters project and setting up freelance infrastructure, but they'll be what I'm working on in the immediate future happy.png

 

I can definitely understand wanting to cover some costs. What about providing some type of raffle prize in conjunction with the crowd funding? You could do anything from a sketch for the winner to something more along the lines of "what ideas do you have for a new\ unique unit?" and working with them to flesh it out further. You could either tie how many entries you get in the raffle to the donation tier or just give everyone that donates one entry. Second thing, and something I would be more interested in than a discord, doing a monthly, or more often, poll that is locked behind donations for what everyone would like to see next?

 

Yeah, I'm definitely still figuring out options for how to reward funders - one obvious option being having a system to vote on / nominate characters for having their own ruleset. I'm still keen to maintain as much creative control on the design of original units as possible - I'm sure people have noticed that I turn down suggestions on this thread far more than I adopt them, which tends to come down to me being relatively conservative (very much with a small C) when it comes to these designs, as my number one priority is ensuring they seem as feasible within the context of the universe as possible.

 

But yeah, I'm still figuring out all the details, so thanks for the suggestions happy.png

 

Thanks for the update, IHF smile.png I gotta say, after the somewhat .. foreboding vibes I got form some of your previous posts building up to that announcement, I was a bit trepidacious that i'd be hitting up the threaad only to see you announcing you'd suffered critical burnout as an artist and/or a 30k-fan so would be shutting up operations entirely. 

So obviously, i'm hella relieved that isn't the case. 

As applies your projected course of action ... yeah, it's a pretty legit idea. From a .. personal and artistic standpoint, I mean - I can't comment on the intricacies of the legal side of things. Although it *does* occur that if the payments in question were basically just "patronage" as it were to your general [and I specify the *general* here] artisticness , rather htan tied to specific 40k IP, I would find it rather surprising if this actually fell afoul of things. I mean - it's basically just people paying you because we like you [so to speak - I mean .. we do, but, you know hwat I mean] rather than a direct and specific exchange which results in you piggybacking on somebody else's IP to turn a profit for a service rendered. 

Those bullet-points you've placed toward the end of your post are pretty positive in that regard - as you're making it clear that you're *not* charging for the actual output produced, and its use of IP in that manner [although given the results of the Chapterhouse suit as I undersatnd them ... it's potentially a bit of a space/amenable grey-area anyway]. But rather, are mooting the notion of paying for access to you, while you talk about stuff with like-minded individuals, so to speak. 

[I also gotta say, as i'm just about to start making something heavily inspired by some Astartes concept you did maaaaaaany months ago now .. i'm very relieved that we won't suddenly find your output locked up behind paywalls and such] 

And having just commented on some legal bits and pieces immediately following a statement that I wouldn't be able to ... you may wish to actually get proper look-over of your projected operation by somebody who's a) actually a lawyer [I only have half a law degree and a reasonable amount of experience in fields of law unlikely to be relevant here], cool.png o-fay with the precise nature of hte law wherever it is you are in the world. 

But yeah uh .. leaving all of that aside .. the main thing I wanted to say is that I think it's a very good idea for you to set up a model wherein you actually get someting out of all this cool stuff you do that we all seem to like so much. I mean, a lot of what i do [irl] is volunteer work - stuff that I feel I have a moral or religious obligation to carry out. And despite the best possible motivations, as well as the seriously cool feeling when people respond both in significant numbers and overwhelmingly positively to something I've written, or we manage to 'shift the narrative' in the media/politics, or a legal situation starts trending up ... it's pretty draining putting in all of that work even on "labours of love"! 

With that in mind, you being able to actually see some tangible results of that appreciation from yer fanbase [and at this point .. it kinda does seem to be a fanbase] , well, it's good for your psychological health doing what you're doing, for a start. And that's before we get into the notion that you may find it easier to live and devote time to these wonderful endeavours if there's a bit of extra cash coming in here and there. 

Personally, my preference wiht where you'ev been going thus far, is the 'concept-work' so to speak - the exploration, the art, the fluff, the "this is how this works",  [I guess i'm after the *inspiration*?] rather than the precise black-letter rules; but that's because I don't really do non-narrative games so ruleswise everything's at least an extrapolation from tabletop rulse anyway for us. It may also turn out that this is eaasier to do than attempting to produce actual properly formatted up FW-esque rules-sheets from an IP perspective - but again, not an IP lawyer. [although I remember a rather amusing anecdote from Italian copyright law that .. we'll save for another time] 

But if creating rules and crafting *that* way is what you want to do, and where you get your enthusiasm from - then more power to you; and I gotta say - i've found your approaches in this area both innovative/refreshing, as well as pretty solid all up. i'm sure that other posters will agree. End of the day, ther's nothing stopping people from 'houseruling' back in official rules that you haven't been able to mention on a particular profile or whatever. 

In any case, I really do rather look forward to seeing how you handle som eof those "more ambitious projects". Particularly the Legion Auxilia and such - you had some pretty nifty concepts floating around awhile back for several of htem, and I also seem to recall a Steel Legion ground-up redesign or something you had in the works. I also did check your blog from time to time in the hopes that you'd posted some AoS or 40k bits and pieces, since i figured your imagination would be pretty legit in those contexts as well, maybe help get me hype about those periods/settings. 

Oh, and as applies "hopes of working at GW/FW" ... tbh, and with absolutely no experience of that particular corporate environment/recruiting practices whatsoever ... I'd actually ponder whether you going down this path is likely to be the .. abandonment of that dream which it seems like you think it might.

Let me put it this way: if you keep doing seriously awesome stuff, at a reasonable quality and rate of output - it's probably only a matter of time before it comes to the attention of various people in the company who're more on the "hobby/explore these universes" side of things as opposed to accounts. From there, it may very well turn out positively in terms of "why aren't we hiring this guy...". That's my optimistic take on things, anyway. 

Although as appies why your previous bid wasn't successful - well, considering how FW's gone in the last few months [with the Solar Auxilia range and other areas being 'trimmed' to put it mildly], i suppose it might be a little less inexplicable [to put it mildly] that you didn't at least get feedback on your portfolio work. 

I uh ... I'm not quite sure what you're referring to with Cottrell at an HH weekender - any idea what i should be googling?

And tha's another thing that's important - values and career path not being in disharmony. Becaues if they *are* .. weeell, that way some considerable stress lies, including perhaps tainitng the love of the hobby all up :S 

Anyway, that's a rather lengthy ramble of my own. However you choose to progress things, I hope they work out for you smile.png And i'm glad we're not losing you to fatigue *just* yet tongue.png

 

Haha, sorry to give you a scare Ryltar, and thanks for taking the time to comment on so many aspects of this

 

Thanks for all the advice on the legal aspects, I appreciate you're not an expert on the particulars, but it's a bit more reassuring.

 

Yeah, I'm happy to admit that this has a lot to do with the fact that I tend to veer toward perfectionism - the better I get artistically, the higher the standard I set myself, and I find that the prospect of completing projects at a standard below my best makes me far more likely to completely avoid doing them - I want to do this stuff really well, but at this point, the time investment required to do that just isn't financially viable. 

 

I completely agree on the rules vs. narrative front - for me, the rules are most useful as a framework to wrap the background and art around - as a very detail-oriented person, weaving the two together so that the narrative and rules inform each other mutually is the most valuable part of the process.

 

(This covers the whole Tony Cottrell thing pretty well: https://www.reddit.c...because_theyre/ )

 

Thanks again Ryltar, it's really reassuring to see that people appreciate this stuff blush.png


Edited by Iron Hands Fanatic, 20 June 2018 - 10:00 PM.

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#632
Iron Hands Fanatic

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Hey folks, plans with regard to the Patreon are still kinda in stasis as I work on my Masters project, but I thought I'd share a design I just finished which was comissioned by Brother Tholath for his work on the BotL:

 

gallery_53779_12611_165409.jpg

 

It's pretty much a stripped-down, open-topped Legion equivalent of the Custodes' Caladius Grav-Carrier - I'm really happy with the central hull, so I might reincarnate some of the design in a tracked vehicle for the main 30k universe.

 

Just a heads up - this obviously means I'm now taking commissions (something I've previously turned down), but my schedule is pretty packed at the minute - I'll be doing a big commission drive / Patreon launch build-up in November when my Masters is over, so if any of you are super keen to have me illustrate some of your designs, it's on the table for the near future.

 

Hope y'all like it


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#633
Fenbain

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Hey folks, plans with regard to the Patreon are still kinda in stasis as I work on my Masters project, but I thought I'd share a design I just finished which was comissioned by Brother Tholath for his work on the BotL:

gallery_53779_12611_165409.jpg

It's pretty much a stripped-down, open-topped Legion equivalent of the Custodes' Caladius Grav-Carrier - I'm really happy with the central hull, so I might reincarnate some of the design in a tracked vehicle for the main 30k universe.

Just a heads up - this obviously means I'm now taking commissions (something I've previously turned down), but my schedule is pretty packed at the minute - I'll be doing a big commission drive / Patreon launch build-up in November when my Masters is over, so if any of you are super keen to have me illustrate some of your designs, it's on the table for the near future.

Hope y'all like it


This is great news! I look forward to the launch date :-)

#634
StoneSentinels

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That is so so cool!! I love the fusion of Martian and terran styles. Very cool. And there aren't enough imperial open topped speeders!





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