Militarum Tempestus

[Kathias]

Hey everyone! So I bought a box of 5 Scions today, mainly due to how amazing the models look, but also in part to how awesome their rules/fluff are.

 

My ultimate goal is to run them as a main detachment, then probably ally in an Inquisitor to use servo skulls for more accurate deep striking.

 

So the purpose of this post is to see what everyone's general thoughts are about the Tempestus Scions. Do you use them? Are the effective? Are the fun to play with on the field?

 

Looking forward to everyone's feedback!

[PureFodder]

Tempestus armies are a lot of fun. Being able to deep strike almost every unit makes games fast, entertaining and dynamic.

 

I've found that the effectiveness of Scions depends entirely on your opponent. If they turn up with a load of marines, you're going to have a field day as almost your entire army ignores their armour. If you find yourself facing lots of 2+ saves or armies that don't rely on armour saves (IG, orks, DE, Deamons) hot-shot lasguns suddenly become very expensive, shot-range lasguns.

 

Also, don't even bother playing if your opponent has Tau. Just accept that you lose and go do something else.

[WarriorFish]

Welcome aboard Kathias, you're not the only one lured in by the Scions - they are cool :D Scion lists are a bit of a glass hammer - be fast and hit hard and be prepared for it all to go south if it doesn't work well enough :P Their formations are good though and you should look into them if you want a pure Scion force. We've a few comrades that run them who will be along soon to offer their sage words I'm sure but the general opinion is that they can be a lot of fun but it's a challenging army to play.

 

Don't forget that you can always ally them with Guard to mitigate some weaknesses (big guns, numbers and heavy armour) which is not just effective but also fluffy :) Last but not least have you thought about colour schemes?

[Kathias]

The Valkyrie formations seems like the best option, so I'll likely end up running that one. Quite the investment though as I have to get 4 Valks! I'll either be allying them with the main AM or Inquisitors. Both will bring some fairly good support options to the table so looking forward to experimenting with it! As for color schemes I really like the scheme of the 55th Hydras from the dex, that combo of red/gold/black just looks very sleek!

[WarriorFish]

Don't forget to get Ride of the Valkyries for when you run it :P It'll be a very cool and thematic list, plus the Valk isn't too hard to magnetise if you have the bits so you can swap it into a Vendetta should you want to use it with a Guard force.

 

You can make your own regiments up too, so don't feel you have to stick to any of the existing schemes if they're not exactly what you'd like ;)

[Kierdale]

I'd suggest a little search-fu. We have many threads discussing the MT. ;)

 

One trick to remember is that MT can Deep Strike into cover/terrain safely due to Move Through Cover.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I'm still building up my force and haven't actually used it yet. I am doing the same thing bringing MR primary and allied =][= for servo skulls plus some cheap extra plasma (henchmen ).

 

Interested to know why a battle versus Tau = auto lose however. Do they have lots of interceptor stuff?

[Kilofix]

MTs are ok - not ultra competitive but can still be very effective.

 

There are a few ways to use them:

1. Deep Strike them in small squads of 5 with Special Weapons to hit a specific target - e.g. Melta to a Tank, Flamer to a Gunline, etc.
2. Deep Strike them to capture hard to reach Objectives (they have Move Through Cover - so will ignore Dangerous Terrain tests when Deep Striking)
3. Use them to kill MEQs (Marines). They have AP3 weapons (invalidating Marine armor) but they are only Str 3 - which is why you will need an MT Command Squad to provide them an Order like Suppression or Firestorm. Alternatively, load an MT Command squad with 4 Plasma Guns and use the Autonomous Fire Command

 

Using them in the Airborne Assault / Ground Assault or Apocalypse Mission Elite formations (the latter is my favorite) adds a little more oomph to their capability; as does adding a tough IC to the squad like an Ordo Malleus in Terminator armor to 'tank' for them.

[Bonzi]

Just got in two major games using my Scions with allied Astra Militarum.

 

#1. Scions rule the close shooting game against elite MEQ and TEQ, but you need to be able to get there or lure them to you.  Scions are also only one notch less fragile than a bog standard guardsman, but much more expensive.

 

The key to this point is mobility.  Valks and Taurox Primes are a must for your army as your guys need protection and speed to see them safely delivered to the kill zone.  Valks with multilasers, rocket pods, and heavy bolter sponsons can fill a lot of your anti-horde role but you won't have them first turn.  Taurox Primes are a sleeper hit in my book.  They are so flimsy and so expensive that most players dismiss them until they start hunting their transports.  My opponents today were blown away by how devastating these little jeeps were (missile launchers & tl autocannons).  These guys are your only source of long range fire and your only way to draw the enemy to you.  If you mass charge them across open fields like a Chimera they will die.  Use their speed and all terrain rules to jump from cover to cover, using LoS to protect your armor while gaining ideal position for side armor shots.

 

#2.  Scions struggle against horde and long range anti-tank where their expensive short range weapons and lack of torrent, template, and ordnance fire sees them quickly swamped or unable to break open fast moving tanks or mobs.

 

Honestly a pure Scion force is really gimped in this respect and the best fix is allies.  I run Astra Militarum allies to plug the anti-horde and long range holes in my Scions list.  A Chimera, Hellhound, and Manticore give the Scions the punch they need against large groups and it adds some durrability/target saturation to keep the Taurox alive.

 

#3.  Transports are the key to the whole army.  Scions play a lot like more like Eldar/Dark Eldar than like Guard.  Standing off and shooting and scooting with Taurox for the first turns and then racing for objectives in the final go works very well.  Valks are harder to kill but don't hit hard against armor.  A mix of both is probably ideal.

 

#4.  MSU style tactics are ideal.  Scions are just too flimsy and expensive so you have to capitalize on their orders and their access to special weapons.  Give them weapons like plasma or meltas and pick their targets carefully.  If the Scions can't cripple the unit or finish them off then they will eat it the next round.  Mitigating the points spent on frail units leaves you more points for more squads or transports.

 

#5.  Strongly consider allies.  Inquisition would be good.  I've had tremendous luck with Astra Militarum AND a Callidius Assassin dataslate.

 

I personally plan on running the ground assault formation after seeing my Taurox Primes at work.  The air cav is cool but the Valks don't punch hard enough on their own and once your Scions are on the ground they are going to start falling fast.   With the Ground Assault formation it's much easier to jump back into your Taurox so you can dismount again later for more twin-linking and pinning. 

[march10k]

Yeah, a command squad with four plasma guns that gives itself the twinlinking order is death incarnate.  Other than that, as others have said, if you're not up against power armor, they're kinda overpriced.  Definitely fun, though.  I have run the air assault formation a time or two, it was fun, but since it represents 1000-1200 points worth of reserves, you're going to need something EXTREMELY survivable to hold down the fort until they arrive.  I recommend air cav with 3x5 dual-melta line squads and the aforementioned quad-plasma command squad in support of mech guard. Two forward sentries squads with autocannons and chimeras will cost you  290 points for four superscorers, leaving a little over 500 points to spend on leman russes (Pask in a punisher, a buddy in a demolisher, and maybe an eradicator as heavy?).  That gives you 3 AV14, 2 AV12, and two autocannon squads that have 3+ cover in ruins...pretty good.  The stormtroopers are your antitank and their command squad is there to remove the linchpin of the enemy list, then die.  Four plasma guns that can twinlink themselves?  Gonna get pasted, they're too much of a threat not to be target number one...so make their debut count!  Remember that the melta stormtroopers are troops, they superscore.  And chimeras in hover mode block a HUGE amount of space if the enemy needs to maneuver, but they also die instantly when looked at crossly.

[The Lions Avenger]

I use the MT platoon with my army. Basically I use them as small suicide squads to take out key targets. Yesterday I took a command squad with 2 meltas n 2 hot shot volley guns, they took out a crisis suit command squad with 4 suits which had deep striked behind my lines. The 5 man scion squad took out all his pathfinders. They served their purpose so my vets n russes could move forward . After 7 turns, the only squad I had completely lost was my scion squad, and I won 21VP to 1VP.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Bonzi -- could you share with us some example lists that you've been using? I'd be really interested to see how the stuff you write about translates into an army list. Thanks.

[Bonzi]

Bonzi -- could you share with us some example lists that you've been using? I'd be really interested to see how the stuff you write about translates into an army list. Thanks.

 

The most recent 1,500pt list I ran was this one.  I used it against a DE/Eldar/Fortification list and against Militarum Tempestus/BA opponent.  The assassin was brutal and awesome but my list just gets a tad to choppy for me to be pleased with it.  I think I would rather have another Taurox Prime + vehicle upgrades than have the assassin.  The assassin may reappear if I run pure Tempestus or at larger points.

 

Tempestus Militarum:

 

TCS: x3 plasma

 

5 Scion: x2 plasma 

-Taurox Prime: missile launcher, autocannon

 Scion: x2 volley gun

-Taurox Prime: missile launcher, autocannon

5 Scion x2 melta

5 Scion:x2 melta

 

Valkyrie: missile pods

 

Astra Militarum:

 

Commisar Lord

 

Veterans: x2 meltaguns

-Chimera: multi-laser, HF

 

Hellhound: multi-melta

 

Manticore

 

Officio Assasinorum:

 

Callidus Assassin

[Kilofix]

One other thing I've found that's great for MTs.

 

Playing in an Objective heavy / Building heavy Sector Imperialis (city scape) - where almost the whole board is basically Difficult Terrain.

 

The MTs can Deep Strike right on-top of Objectives, they don't have to test for Dangerous, and they have 3D6 when hiking it with MtC.

 

Taurox and vehicles with Dozer might be faster overall but they're still more expensive and can't hide as well.

[Bonzi]

I played another game with my MT/AM army yesterday, dropping the Assassin for an Aegis Defense Line + Quad gun.

 

I have noticed the odd fact that so many people seemed surprised by the Scion deep strike ability.  I've had several opponents and people watching the game ask me how my Scions are appearing on the field like that, and they seem thrown off why I say they are deep striking.  It's an ability that seems more associated with Terminators and Jump/Jet Pack infantry in most players minds and light infantry doing it without a flying transport really seems to throw them.

 

I played in a three way game and was getting pummeled for the first couple turns until my reserves arrived and delivered hammer blows to both my opponents.  My two melta gun strike teams dropped in and slagged a Death Company Dred in my own deployment zone and a Taurox Prime sitting on an objective on the other side of the table.  At the same time my Valkyrie flew onto the board and grav-chute deployed my Scion Command Squad which killed four of five assault terminators.  These were all small squads which used Deep Strike to be where they needed.

 

I'm beginning to devise a strategy for how I want to use my Scions in the future that I call 'Vertical Assault'.  

 

I'm basing this off of my experience that Taurox Primes mobility and firepower makes for great standoff units and objective takers, but their frailty makes for poor transports to deliver troops to the thick of the fight.  Scions, by contrast, have the best weapons for up close and dirty fights and the best delivery method to get there (deep strike), but their short range weapons make for poor standoff units and they don't have the speed needed to capture and hold multiple maelstrom objectives.  What I want to try in my next game is to hold multiple MSU scion squads in reserve for DSing, but use Taurox Primes bought for them (thus getting Objective Secured) as my mainline troop units that start on the board.  Without the need to deliver Scions my Taurox can standoff and use their mobility to keep safe while still using their long range guns and capturing objectives.  This also delivers my Scions to the battle exactly where they need to be and where they are most effective without risking my Taurox or forcing my Scions to remain embarked and ineffective until it is safe for the Taurox to approach.  This strategy will let me use both types of units at maximum effectiveness without hampering the other.  Primary loadouts for the Taurox would be missiles & autocannons + camo if the points are there.  Primary loadouts for the Scions would be melta and plasma guns.  The biggest downside is that the formations won't work at all for this tactic as the Valk formation doesn't leave anything on the table for the first turn and the Ground formation requires the units to be embarked on their transport.

 

I think a pure Tempestus force using the Vertical Assault strategy will look like this:

 

 

TCS: x4 volley guns 125 (Warlord mans the battlements of the bastion, tempestor mans the quad gun)

 

TCS: x3 plasma, medic 145 (Mounted in the valk)

 

 

x5 Scion: x2 plasma 200 (Deep Striker)

-Taurox Prime: missiles, autocannon

 

x5 Scion: x2 melta 190 (Deep Striker)

-Taurox Prime: missiles, autocannon

 

x5 Scion: x2 melta 190 (Deep Striker)

-Taurox Prime: missiles, autocannon

 

x5 Scion: x2 melta 190 (Deep Striker)

-Tuarox Prime: missiles, autocannon

 

x5 Scions: x2 volley guns 90 (Crew the Bastion interior or the aegis line)

 

Valkyrie: missile pods, heavy bolters 145

 

Imperial Strong Point: 

x1 Bastion: quad gun, void shield

X1 Aegis Defense Line: comms relay

(The fortification is the lynchpin of this strategy.  The aegis, void shield, and the bunker make sure you can't be alpha striked off the board in the first turn and provides a secure firebase for the Taurox to start from.  The comms relay helps ensure that your DSing Scions will show up en-mass on turn two.) 

 

1495pts

 

 

I really like this idea and all I lack to make it happen is the Bastion.  The list has an appealing amount of frailty and resilience, mobility and castling and each element plays in such a different way that it should keep the opponent guessing as to where and how they should focus their attack.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Sounds fascinating. I'm really looking forward to hearing how this turns out.

[march10k]

I'm not at all convinced that using MT for suicide melta makes sense...90 points for two BS4 melta shots that are subject to scatter?  In what universe is that a good plan?

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'd personally take care against Tau with this strategy. Their Interceptor capabilities could make this really hurt.

[Bonzi]

I'm not at all convinced that using MT for suicide melta makes sense...90 points for two BS4 melta shots that are subject to scatter? In what universe is that a good plan?

In the same universe where it is the only way for pure scions to crack av14. Unless you feel like spending 80 more points on a tissue paper transport to rush the enemy tank with. Consider the tactic within context.

[Bonzi]

I'd personally take care against Tau with this strategy. Their Interceptor capabilities could make this really hurt.

This is a tactic, not a one trick pony to be used regardless of the opponent. There are obvious instances where it will be better to remain mounted in the taurox.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

I'm not at all convinced that using MT for suicide melta makes sense...90 points for two BS4 melta shots that are subject to scatter? In what universe is that a good plan?

In the same universe where it is the only way for pure scions to crack av14. Unless you feel like spending 80 more points on a tissue paper transport to rush the enemy tank with. Consider the tactic within context.

 

 

The tissue paper tank can, at best, only glance the AV14 to death also, given its best weapon is only Str 8.

 

Two deep-striking meltas for 90 points, or even four for 180 can take out that 150-250 point AV14 vehicle fairly reliably even with scatter in my experience. And if you are deep striking enough units, they become less suicide-like. I think they're only truely suicide units when you're only dropping one or two. When, under the proposed list, four squads deep strike at once an enemy may not be able to take them all down at 1500 points.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Given that Tau pay 52pts for a single model that can put out 2 BS3 Melta Shots on Deep Strike, the scions aren't too bad given their secondary uses.

[Kilofix]

Been playing more with MTs. Am finding that Orders like Suppression vs things like Wraithknights are no slouch.