Weapon Selection in the Shooting Phase

[Transgressor O'Malley]

To be honest, the only reason I made this account was to ask this question. You fellows seem pretty knowledgeable, so I'd appreciate it if you could help.

Let's say I and my opponent each have a Valkyrie with a multilaser, two heavy bolters and hellstrike missiles. Mine is set up to shoot his in the rear, only armour 10 so the dakka has a reasonable chance of shooting it down without using up the hellstrikes. However, I definitely want to shoot it down this phase, so I will throw in a hellstrike or two if necessary. So, am I required to decide whether or not I am using hellstrikes, and if so how many, before I start rolling dice, or am I allowed to resolve the dakka before deciding on the hellstrikes?

I've looked up the relevant sections in the rule book and they didn't seem to answer the question. If I'm just missing something, then feel free to call me a moron.

[Seahawk]

1. Pick a weapon and fire it.

2. Repeat #1 until you're satisfied with the unit's shooting.

 

You don't have to say what weapons are firing until you choose to fire them.

[Transgressor O'Malley]

Thanks! For whatever reason, I found the wording in the book unclear.

[Kristoff]

Where it gets real fun is that firing an ordnance weapon causes any other weapon fired by a Vehicle to be Snap Fired.  Note, any other that turn.  Supposedly, this would include the ones fired before it such as the OP's situation as he describes.  But, we're not supposed to go back and redo those Shooting Attacks, either.

[Raeven]

Which means you can't fire your ordnance.

[Kristoff]

Which means you can't fire your ordnance.

That could be intimated, but it is not written as such.

[Jacinda]

It does not have to be written.  It should be obvious that you can not perform an action that would break the rules.  Even retroactively. 

[Gideon999]

I thought you had to declare which guns were firing all at once, but you resolve each one one at a time until done.

 

IE - you have to say I am shooting my multilaser, heavy bolters and 2 missiles at your valkyrie.   Then you choose one of those to start with and fully resolve (roll to hit, pen and damage, etc).   If the unit is still alive you resolve the second weapon, then the third.   All weapons are assumed to fire simultaneously so you can't say "well my multilaser killed it, so I still have my missiles".

 

Do I have that wrong?

[Morollan]

I thought you had to declare which guns were firing all at once, but you resolve each one one at a time until done.

 

IE - you have to say I am shooting my multilaser, heavy bolters and 2 missiles at your valkyrie.   Then you choose one of those to start with and fully resolve (roll to hit, pen and damage, etc).   If the unit is still alive you resolve the second weapon, then the third.   All weapons are assumed to fire simultaneously so you can't say "well my multilaser killed it, so I still have my missiles".

 

Do I have that wrong?

 

It always used to be that way but I can't see anything in the 7e rulebook that supports that.

[Kristoff]

It does not have to be written.  It should be obvious that you can not perform an action that would break the rules.  Even retroactively.

You are correct, it should be obvious. But then again, it should be written, too, to avoid confusion and arguments. Ordnance rules should state that they are always fired first in a unit if they are to be fired at all. But shoulda woulda coulda got nobody nowhere, and the rules do not always say what they should.

 

I thought you had to declare which guns were firing all at once, but you resolve each one one at a time until done.

 

IE - you have to say I am shooting my multilaser, heavy bolters and 2 missiles at your valkyrie.   Then you choose one of those to start with and fully resolve (roll to hit, pen and damage, etc).   If the unit is still alive you resolve the second weapon, then the third.   All weapons are assumed to fire simultaneously so you can't say "well my multilaser killed it, so I still have my missiles".

 

Do I have that wrong?

You are correct.  Straight from the rules at the beginning of the Shooting Phase. No mention of how Ordnance affects this if chosen as a latter weapon. In an effort of good Sportsmanship and to avoid sticky arguments, one should not fire an Ordnance weapon after any others, though.

 

It always used to be that way but I can't see anything in the 7e rulebook that supports that.

6th Edition had all weapons from a unit shooting at the same time, unless otherwise noted (ex: Tau Networked Marker Lights, Eldar Scatter Lasers). 7th Edition specifically tells you to pick one weapon, have all the models who have it and you want to shoot with fire, process Wounds/Hits, then choose another weapon and start the process over, if available and desired. Again, this is straight from the rules at the start of the Shooting Phase. If you can't see it, you're not actually trying to look or are looking in the wrong book.

[Raeven]

No need to be prickly, Kristoff.

[Morollan]

 

It does not have to be written.  It should be obvious that you can not perform an action that would break the rules.  Even retroactively.

You are correct, it should be obvious. But then again, it should be written, too, to avoid confusion and arguments. Ordnance rules should state that they are always fired first in a unit if they are to be fired at all. But shoulda woulda coulda got nobody nowhere, and the rules do not always say what they should.

 

I thought you had to declare which guns were firing all at once, but you resolve each one one at a time until done.

 

IE - you have to say I am shooting my multilaser, heavy bolters and 2 missiles at your valkyrie.   Then you choose one of those to start with and fully resolve (roll to hit, pen and damage, etc).   If the unit is still alive you resolve the second weapon, then the third.   All weapons are assumed to fire simultaneously so you can't say "well my multilaser killed it, so I still have my missiles".

 

Do I have that wrong?

You are correct.  Straight from the rules at the beginning of the Shooting Phase. No mention of how Ordnance affects this if chosen as a latter weapon. In an effort of good Sportsmanship and to avoid sticky arguments, one should not fire an Ordnance weapon after any others, though.

 

It always used to be that way but I can't see anything in the 7e rulebook that supports that.

6th Edition had all weapons from a unit shooting at the same time, unless otherwise noted (ex: Tau Networked Marker Lights, Eldar Scatter Lasers). 7th Edition specifically tells you to pick one weapon, have all the models who have it and you want to shoot with fire, process Wounds/Hits, then choose another weapon and start the process over, if available and desired. Again, this is straight from the rules at the start of the Shooting Phase. If you can't see it, you're not actually trying to look or are looking in the wrong book.

 

 

Before you start making denigrating comments about other posters I suggest you read their posts and comprehend what they have written. You may then appear less foolish.

[Venemox]

I thought you had to declare which guns were firing all at once, but you resolve each one one at a time until done.

 

IE - you have to say I am shooting my multilaser, heavy bolters and 2 missiles at your valkyrie.   Then you choose one of those to start with and fully resolve (roll to hit, pen and damage, etc).   If the unit is still alive you resolve the second weapon, then the third.   All weapons are assumed to fire simultaneously so you can't say "well my multilaser killed it, so I still have my missiles".

 

Do I have that wrong?

 

Yes, you have this wrong.  Under 'The Shooting Sequence' on the first page of the 'The Shooting Phase'.  Step 3 is Select a Weapon, step 7 is Select Another Weapon.  You are required to fire all selected weapons in a unit before moving on to another weapon type.  You are also required to finish shooting with a unit prior to moving to the next.

[Gideon999]

Yeah, I got that bit, I just dont see where (or if) it says that you have to declare the weapons firing at once.

 

Like I say, I am shooting this devastator squad at you, and I will fire the missile lauchers and the bolters.   THEN I pick which one of those I want to use first and shoot that weapon completely, THEN move on to the missiles.   Maybe I am just being thick here (a genuine possibility, LOL!) but the distinction I am looking to clarify is whether or not you still have to declare all gun types that will fire before you start firing them one by one.

 

The difference would be whether I get to hold the single use missiles or not (as if I have to declare they are being fired, even if the other guns I resolve first kill the target those single use missiles would still count as having fired and be used up).   If I do NOT have to declare which guns are going to fire at the start of the phase, and can just start shooting one gun type at a time then I CAN keep those missiles if I dont need them.
 

I know, I am beating a dead horse here but I just want to make sure I get this 100% clear in my mind.

 

Thanks!

[Seahawk]

I shall repeat my first answer, because it is still correct:

 

1. Pick/declare a weapon and fire it.
2. Repeat #1 until you're satisfied with the unit's shooting.

 

You don't have to say what weapons are firing until you choose to fire them.

[Dam13n]

I have hidden a few posts in this topic as denigrating, sarcastic and overly-confrontational comments have no place in a rules debate.

 

Either play nice or don't play at all.

[Gideon999]

That is pretty cool then.   Thanks for the confirmation.