Grimm Blade Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I am just getting started with my new GK terminator force (First Brotherhood) and I am not sure how to build the GM... I have not been able to locate any fluff in regards to how the First's GM is equipped, so I believe I pretty much have carte blanc. I was thinking Psycannon and hammer. What are your thoughts and experiences in regards to how best to outfit Grand Masters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Every GK is trained in the use of all weapons so a GM can be equipped however you like. Most use the same load out. I have falchions and Incinerator on mine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 For starters always take the psycan IMO. From there I dont think there is a 'best build'. To me the choice really starts with 'do you need the cuirass?' If not then then the soul glaive is too good to pass on. Rerolling activations means you can skimp on dice and still almost guarantee you will succeed on the attempt allowing you to sandbag a WC or two and force hard DtW decisions for your opponent. When activated the soul glaive is about as killy a weapon as your gonna find outside of space wolves or chaos armories, combining the best of both the volume of attacks from the falchions (due to rerolls) and the higher strength of the hammer (again due to rerolls) with full initiative 5. Also rerolling armour pens means it can even tackle av12 with HH up. Truly the best of all 3 weapons, lacking only ap2 from making it THE go to relic IMO. Now if you DO want the cuirass, which many of us do, then the soul glaive is out leaving 'only' ordinary NFWs. In this case I would definitely recommend adding master crafted to any weapon you choose since its basically like buying +1 attack, and strongly consider digi weapons too depending on the type. Lets take a look: -Hammer I personally opted for the hammer due to 2 ways to achieve instant death on most things (S10 or force) and the fact that it can replace melta bombs in a pinch with S10, making it the cheapest of the choices and the heaviest hitter with ap 2. However I'm not sure its the clear winner especially since you sacrifice the only initiative 5 attacks in the army for something you can really just duplicate elsewhere. I recommend master crafted here but not digi weapons due to the exceptionally high strength normally wounding on 2's. This puts the cost of the hammer as identical to the soul glaive. -Falchion These weapons have the highest hit rate of all the ordinary weapons choices due to volume, but you definitely want both MC and digi weapons here to offset the lower strength. These upgrades make the falchions into a pseudo soul glaive vs common toughness values and potentially even superior when both have Force and HH going. Falchions stand to benefit the most from HH due to the increased significance of going from str 4 to 6. This is also their biggest downside though, since strength 4 will often require HH to make these perform adequately against anything other than simple troops, including units like TWC, bikes and tough ICs, nurgle marked spawn, MCs and so on. The implications of this means that you will almost always want BOTH force and HH to reach the level of effectiveness the soul glaive can achieve with only Force (and it rerolls activation so costs 1/4 WC of the falchions), or the hammer can achieve without psych support at all, but sacrificing initiative 5 altogether. If going with falchions you will also want melta bombs bringing the cost to 29 pts. -Halberd Lastly the halberd. Probably the most well rounded option due to S5 and initiative 5, the halberd doesn't specialize in anything (volume for troops or high toughness/2+ saves). The halberd also stands to benefit the least from HH simply because the jump from str 5 to 7 is less significant than from 4 to 6 or from 8 to 10. Again I would recommend full compliment of MC/DW and melta bombs as these are basically additional attacks unless your dice act differently than mine do. This brings the cost up to 27 pts. Anyway IMO each option has attributes that make it attractive, with the soul glaive being the standout. If I had to rank the choices top to bottom it would be: soul glaive > hammer > falchions > halberd. This is due not only to the weapons face value but also to the warp charge investment needed and how that plays into my list design, and lastly the pts cost. Anyway you asked for some thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Great post, I personally like the Cuiras + Hammer configuration. Almost all the time you will face Challenges, and Ap2 is a must! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thank you Brom MKIV, that was an awesome reply!!! Too bad we can't take Curias and soul glave eh!? I am leaning heavily towards taking the Curias and hammer, but the initiative loss is killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 My group is actually discussing allowing all codices and supplements the same access to relics. Why not propose the same thing? It really helps books like orks out. There's no consistency between books and especially supplements that have no restriction on relics and this simple change levels the field and makes parent codices a little more attractive. Anyway I agree initiative 5 is really hard to pass up. I've been stuck on that too. I'm not completely certain I would take the glaive over the hammer even considering if I could combine it with the cuirass. A few more games will set that straight I suppose. Also my model plays into that decision. I hate breaking up a good pose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Unwieldy is annoying, but at least you kill everything you touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Lets see a pic of this model Brom. Do you guys find that your hammer GM's are surviving despite unwieldly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 My group is actually discussing allowing all codices and supplements the same access to relics. Why not propose the same thing? It really helps books like orks out. There's no consistency between books and especially supplements that have no restriction on relics and this simple change levels the field and makes parent codices a little more attractive. Anyway I agree initiative 5 is really hard to pass up. I've been stuck on that too. I'm not completely certain I would take the glaive over the hammer even considering if I could combine it with the cuirass. A few more games will set that straight I suppose. Also my model plays into that decision. I hate breaking up a good pose. Blade of the relentless on a steed/bike with a Brand with the skull and demonheart? Oh hell yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Im gonna test a grand master w/ relic RDA, psycannon, falchions this weekend il let you know how he rares, id also say it depends on your meta... Ive got Alot of ork players and only a couple of 3+ armies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Should take an incinerator on him then ;) Orks hate templates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I had thought about it... But i chose psycannon because at il fire it more than once or twice... Il be bringing the templates elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well I think a psycannon would be best for a GM, especially if he's in a squad of terminators with 2 other psycannons, because prescience would be making a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Agreed, but if you know you'll be fighting Orks, and given he's a combat hero, I'd actually be taking the incinerator to thin out an enemy squad before charging. Even Nobz die horribly to incinerator, only MANZ can walk through it without much fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 At work now. Might post a pic in a couple days. My group is actually discussing allowing all codices and supplements the same access to relics. Why not propose the same thing? It really helps books like orks out. There's no consistency between books and especially supplements that have no restriction on relics and this simple change levels the field and makes parent codices a little more attractive.Anyway I agree initiative 5 is really hard to pass up. I've been stuck on that too. I'm not completely certain I would take the glaive over the hammer even considering if I could combine it with the cuirass. A few more games will set that straight I suppose. Also my model plays into that decision. I hate breaking up a good pose. Blade of the relentless on a steed/bike with a Brand with the skull and demonheart? Oh hell yes. Ya pretty much although no cross codex selections. But ya that's what happens currently right? Champs of fenris, black legion, crimson slaughter etc all allow unlimited relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Blade Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Can't wait to hear actual played experiences with the load outs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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