Gentlemanloser Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What happens when someone tried to land the Deep Strike portion of Gate of Infinity within 12" of a Culexes Assassin? If you rule they can't, and it's impassible terrain. What happens when someone landing 12" away from a Culexes Assassin using Gate of Infinity scatters to within 12" of the Culexes? Do they suffer a Mishap? Does the power just not work and they return to their original position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 This should be self-evident from reading the rules; both the assassin's and the psychic power's. If the casting model is within 12" of the assassin, the power fails. Otherwise, it works as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Cast outside 12". As per the Assassins rules (which I've read in depth many times), as soon as the power comes within 12", it *stops working*. Not after you finish your Deep Strike, and the power ends. But immediately it enters within 12". Any blessing or malediction psychic powers affecting a unit immediately cease to be in effect if the unit moves within 12" of a Culexus Assassin or vice versa. It stops. How does that effect the unit mid Gate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 The blessing stops working immediately just as soon as the unit deepstrikes. Of course it does this whether or not there is an assassin in range. It does not happen before they move into range; it does not happen when the unit is removed from the table. They immediately deepstrike and the blessing is immediately rendered ineffective. At best (for the assassin player) it is a simultaneous effect so the player whos turn it is determins the order. But by the time they are in range there is noting to render ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Deep strike mishap would be the fluffy response, but when has this game cared about fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 The blessing stops working immediately just as soon as the unit deepstrikes. Before or after Scatter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markham82 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I don't have any rules to back up my view, but I feel that you shouldn't be able to use gate of infinity to get to within 12" of the assassin. The idea of the 12" is to negate buffs/debuffs in that area and gate is a buff to movement(right?). Scattering into the 12" is more difficult, because what do you do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 How about Hallucination? The target unit is within 12" of the Culexes. The Manifester is outside 12". Does the target unit get affected by Hallucination if it rolls a 1-2? The target unit takes a Pinning test and the Malediction ceases to be in effect as soon as the Pinning roll is made. If Hallucination goes off (because it's the Manifesters turn) doesn't that really make a mockery of the Assassins rule? All Blessing/Maledictions cease immediately. Apart from those that have an effect and end before that are forced to cease. If Hallucination doesn't go off, then surely Gate of Infinity suffers the same fate. All be it, without us knowing how this effects the Gated unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The blessing stops working immediately just as soon as the unit deepstrikes. Before or after Scatter? After. The unit's position is not determined until after the scatter process has concluded so you won't know if the unit is within 12" until after scatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 So the Culuxes would stop the Gate *before* you resolve Scatter and therefore before the power ends itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 So the Culuxes would stop the Gate *before* you resolve Scatter and therefore before the power ends itself. No because the unit has not moved within 12" until after scatter has resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 What about Levitation? It's worded as 'immedieately make a move'. Can we cast Mental Fortitude on a unit for 'immdeiate Regroups' effect? Since these are all also 'immediate' effects, is this a case of caster takes priority in order of resolution? Therbey by passing the Assasin's dataslate specific special rule with base rule book effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Very good point. Surely it's Codex > Rulebook here, and not two same timing chosen by the owning player. No because the unit has not moved within 12" until after scatter has resolved. If you've placed the first mini within 12"? Should that not qualify for the Culexes to stop it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 No because the unit has not moved within 12" until after scatter has resolved. If you've placed the first mini within 12"? Should that not qualify for the Culexes to stop it? No because placing the first model is purely an indication of where you intend for it to arrive. The units final position is determined after the scatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 But you shodn't even be allowed to continue with the Deep Strike process. Becuase Gate (and it's Deep Strike) stops Immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 But you shodn't even be allowed to continue with the Deep Strike process. Becuase Gate (and it's Deep Strike) stops Immediately. There's nothing to stop until the scatter is resolved though. Placing the first model is simply a representation and visual aid to the process of resolving a deep strike. It's not the case that one guy starts to appear in a certain location, then shuffles over a few yards and then the rest of the squad join him. The unit has not moved within 12" of the Culexus until the whole unit has been placed on the table. I'm sure we had this argument before with Warp Quake and I thought you were arguing the opposite on that occasion. My memory may be playing tricks on me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 I probably was. Warp Quake/I've Been Expecting You are slightly different though. They work *after* a unit has arrived. The Culexes stops any power in it's AoE immediately. It doesn't get the chance to resolve, finish or activate. It just stops whatever it was doing. Even with a Sactter, placing your first mini within 12" of a Culexes would bring that Gated mini into range, and the Gate should Stop there and then. Same if the unit was placed over 12" away and scatter inside. How this would effect the Gated unit, I've no idea! Ah, timings and 'immediate' effects. (Edit: WQ and IBEY aren't 'immediate' effects) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 The Culexes stops any power in it's AoE immediately. It doesn't get the chance to resolve, finish or activate. It just stops whatever it was doing. Even with a Sactter, placing your first mini within 12" of a Culexes would bring that Gated mini into range, and the Gate should Stop there and then. That's the point I was making though. Placing the first mini does not involve the unit moving within 12" - only after the unit scatters (if it does) and all models are placed is the unit considered to have moved. At which point there is nothing for Psychic Abomination to negate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 But part of the process, although not final, involved being within 12". And that part of the process stops. Edit: As above, take Levitation. If it's cast outside the 12" at a unit inside, does it go off if the 'immediate move' takes the unit outside the 12"? No. Why should that work? If at any point in the process, Gate takes a unit within 12", it should just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 But part of the process, although not final, involved being within 12". Except it didn't. At no point during the deep strike process has a unit moved within 12" of the Culexus until the entire unit has been placed on the table following any scatter roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 One point people are missing is the Gate as a power is completed as soon as the power s cast, with the outcome following immediately after. Much like Summoning, the only psychic effect is the actual casting, not the end result. A unit that is Gating has use a power to enter the Deep Strike process; once the process has started, there is no longer a psychic component. If the caster was within 12" of the Assassin, then yes, the power would fail. However, once Gate has successfully gone off, the effected unit is immediately Deep Striking from off the table as if from Deep Strike reserves, and the unit's successful arrival is decided by the Deep Strike process, not a further psychic effect. A Summoned unit will not get instantly removed from play if it moves within 12" of the Assassin, because the Summoned unit physically exists after the power was successful. So it is with Deep Striking after a successful Gate. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 3, 2014 Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 You could make that same arguement for every Power. I think it's quite obvious that in Gates case, the power doesn't finish until the Unit has finished being placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 After the marker model is scattered he counts as placed, so the blessing ends and the unit looses deep strike. If you loose the rule you can't place the unit, if you can't place the unit you mishap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Except it didn't. At no point during the deep strike process has a unit moved within 12" of the Culexus So you didn't place the mini within 12" of the Culexes, when you placed the mini within 12" of the Culexes. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Does a unit that arrives by DS still count as moving? Havnt my rule book to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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