Purifiers, ravens and reserves manipulation

[Brom MKIV]

I have been brainstorming how to most effectively incorporate purifiers and storm ravens into my army. Both are very powerful tools that shore up specific weaknesses in a GK army but with these units come inherent problems of delivery and reliability. I would like to discuss methods for addressing each. 

 

For starters here is a 'package' I will be testing with my list today against space wolves:

 

NSF detachment 

 

5 purifiers- 2 hvy weapons

bunker- comms relay, escape hatch.

 

storm raven- tlac, tlmm, 4 ss missiles

(and tda/psycan malleus inquisitors fwiw)

 

This setup brings reliable reserves for NSF detachments and a 2 wc unit which starts on the board (unlike when embarked on a raven) and can, after reserves arrive move 18" forward and pop cleansing flame followed by shooting (disembark from the hatch 12", move 6").

 

It can also shoot from fire points or even assault after a normal disembark of 6". Very flexible and durable. I'm still undecided on the weaponry at this point.

Incinerators are cheap, provide excellent overwatch capability and allow assaults after firing. On the downside cleansing flame is identical range so when used will often burn the unit out of template range prior to shooting. I am interested in experiences with this if any of you have some btw.

The alternative is psycans which are more expensive and prevent assaults (which the hatch does anyway) but in return they provide the unit with the ability to stay defensive against more aggressive armies and more S7 rending is always welcome. Also deploying 18" forward nearly ensures they will be in range of something.

 

I have also considered putting a full unit combat squaded inside but the pts investment feels a little prohibitive, although the added warp charge and what is essentially a 'free' scout move is tasty. 

 

Also note that the building is claimed and so is technically a scoring model in its own right capable of manning the comms on its own even unmanned.. but of course one deep strike later and the opponent would claim it.

 

Anyway I am interested in seeing this strategy develop so If you have any ideas to contribute please feel free to share!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Comms Relay is very handy, I'd almost always be taking it. Aegis Line is a cheaper alternative, and can't be blown up. 

 

I wouldn't be putting Purifiers on the Comms Array. I'd use either Allies or a Dreadknight to hug it. 

 

Purifiers basically need to be Raven or Drop Pod delivered now. They have a huge target on their head, due to WC2 and 'Cleansing Flame' being so absurdly good (especially when two combat squads hop out of the same Raven and double-cast for maximum over-troll). 

[Brom MKIV]

I agree on the comms it's near mandatory, but consider this: the bunker is an av14  scoring unit now. It doesn't even need buddies to operate the comms, say if your opponent can't destroy av14 by turn 2. AND it gives purifiers a 27" threat range for cleansing flame. 30" for psycans. Combat squaded.  Or if the situation warrants camp inside and shoot 16 s7 rending. Oh and the comms is debris it can't be destroyed if placed on the field.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I agree on the comms it's near mandatory, but consider this: the bunker is an av14  scoring unit now. It doesn't even need buddies to operate the comms, say if your opponent can't destroy av14 by turn 2. AND it gives purifiers a 27" threat range for cleansing flame. 30" for psycans. Combat squaded.  Or if the situation warrants camp inside and shoot 16 s7 rending. Oh and the comms is debris it can't be destroyed if placed on the field.

 

I'd prefer the Aegis Line. Its only 70pts for one with a Comms Relay. Points are at a massive premium for us, so the cheaper you can get Comms, the better. 

[boreas]

Ha! Placing the bunker's back 7" before your lines, moving your purifiers 6" to embark and then cast Cleansing flames a full 20" forward?

[Brom MKIV]

The rules for fortifications changed, now they deploy along with the other models in your army using the same rules.. so inside your DZ. Still, theres some great potential there and its only 5 pts over the cost of an ADL.

[Gaz1858]

On a standard 6 x 4 the purifiers can be 30" up the board on turn one with Dawn if war set up. This means theres only a 9" gap that their CF cant reach.

 

Better yet have Crowe join a Term Squad with one or two Psycannons. Thus way whatever is outside crowes CF gets Psycannon targeted

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Btw guys, try out Tiggy from the Ultramarines. He is a bit pricey, but his Reserves re-roll works even if he's in Reserve. You can do a true null deployment with him :)

[Shadrach03]

His rule says it's only for units from the same detatchment.  This sounds like the question about rites of teleportation and characters joining other units again.

[IndigoJack]

Yeah, it does say his detachment only, which means dreadknights will never be able to utilize his ability

[Shadrach03]

Wouldn't this impact storm ravens and deep striking terminators too?

[Brom MKIV]

Tigurius' prescience ability only effects his detachment, i.e. ultramarines. 

[IndigoJack]

Wouldn't this impact storm ravens and deep striking terminators too?

Well, if tiggy is either embarked on the raven, or joined to the termies, they may or may not be affected by it, pending FAQ. I mentioned the NDKs specifically because there is no way for them to be affected.

 

Fun fact: if you play unbound, you can't use the ability at all because there are no detachments in an unbound army

[Rurik the blessed]

I personally prefer the Land Raider. It gives a real protection until turn two when Purifiers would make their assault.

 

Purifiers x10

7x Falchions, 2x Incinerator, 1x Hammer

Land Raider

 

Assault vehicles are the best for purifiers.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

His rule says it's only for units from the same detatchment.  This sounds like the question about rites of teleportation and characters joining other units again.

 

 

Attach your GK Librarian to a unit of Ultramarine Assault Terminators, or attach a Terminator Libby to a GK Terminator unit. Bam, done. By the rules, that unit is considered part of both detachments, and thus benefits from both. 

 

Yeah, it does say his detachment only, which means dreadknights will never be able to utilize his ability 

 

 

Yeah but you should be starting them on-table anyway, with their shunt move they can get into enemy lines just fine without triggering Interceptor. 

 

Well, if tiggy is either embarked on the raven, or joined to the termies, they may or may not be affected by it, pending FAQ. I mentioned the NDKs specifically because there is no way for them to be affected. 

 

 

Correct. So, as an example list;

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/stave, Mastery 3

(135 points)

 

Tiggy

(165 points)

 

Terminator Librarian w/force axe+storm shield, Mastery 2

(125 points)

 

Elites:

 

Flame Knight w/sword, 9x Purifiers w/swords

(250 points)

 

Sergeant w/thunder hammer+storm shield, 9x Terminators w/thunder hammer+storm shield

(450 points)

 

Troops:

 

Justicar w/falchions, 2x Terminators w/falchions+psycannon, 2x Terminators w/hammers, 5x Terminators w/falchions

(422 points)

 

Sergeant w/sniper rifle, 4x Scouts w/sniper rifles

(60 points)

 

Fast Attack:

 

Raven w/typhoon, twin lascannon, 4x stormstrikes, locator beacon

(235 points)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(2) Dreadknight w/greatsword, heavy psycannon, gatling psilencer, teleporter

(230 points each)

 

Land Raider Redeemer w/multi-melta

(250 points)

 

Just shy of 2.5k ;) its a silly list, but basically;

 

*Reserves*

GK LIbby+UM Hammernators

UM Libby+GK Terminators

Tiggy+Purifiers+Raven (don't forget to Combat Squad)

 

*On table Turn 1*

Scouts+Redeemer, hull down somewhere in cover

Dreadknights likewise behind some LOS blocking terrain

 

 

Turn 1, roll Reserves for the two TDA blobs to come on, re-rolling if you fail

Turn 2, Tiggy arrives in his Raven with his new Purifier pals, disembarks (no scatter ;) thanks locator beacon), double 'Cleansing Flame' the enemy

 

Redeemer trundles around not caring about plasma and parking on objectives, Dreadknights turn on 'Sanctuary' and support the TDA blobs in crushing resistance. 

 

It's a dumb list, but it illustrates my point about how mixing IC's with units from other detachments allows shenanigans. Because by RAW (pending an FAQ disallowing fun), that's how it would work. Hence, Tiggy is your new best friend. 

[Valerian]

 

Fun fact: if you play unbound, you can't use the ability at all because there are no detachments in an unbound army

 

 

No standard Detachments, but you can still use Formations in an Unbound army, and Formations are a special type of Detachment....

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No standard Detachments, but you can still use Formations in an Unbound army, and Formations are a special type of Detachment....

 

 

Top lel. GW can't ever seem to write their rules straight. 

[Shadrach03]

Well they've only had 30 or so years of fantasy and about 25 for 40k to practice. Just imagine what how sweet brb's and codexes will be in another 25 years

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Fun fact: if you play unbound, you can't use the ability at all because there are no detachments in an unbound army

 

There is a Detachment in Unbound.

 

The Primary Detachment.

 

Which is formed by every unit with the same faction as your Warlord.

 

This interacts badly with Chapter Tactics and will cause headaches.

[Brom MKIV]

So the stormraven gunship. I haven't see a fully tooled raven since 5th when they were just skimmers, meaning nowhere near to firepower potential. However messing with mine today I've been thinking fully tooled might be the way to go. I'm new to fielding flyers I admit so I'd like to hear what you guys think. 

 

I am considering the full monte here:

 

SR- tml, tlac, 2 sponson hb's, 4 ss missiles. 

 

Yep 255 pts. 230 if I keep the tlmm which is probably better honestly, at least in a vacuum. That said how does the presence of other flyers in my meta, including cron air, dakkajets, airwolfs and othe rav12 ceramite flyers change the desirable armament of a stormraven?

 

I'm thinking the ship wants the ability to take out armour AND decimate infantry. And just as importantly it needs to be able to dogfight with other ships, after its been forced to jink.

 

With that I'll open the floor up.. 

[Gentlemanloser]

The new Missiles are great.  Our Ravens were always a little, weaker, due to our Mindstrikes.

 

Don't get me wrong, Mindstrikes could be top kek.  If the situation arose.

 

They were murder to Psykers, especially silly things like Seer Councils.

 

But for general use, the new Missiles are just so much of a better option.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I wish we could swap for mindstrikes. Dunno why GW is obsessed with just copy-pasting Marine codex units into ours with zero thought as to flavour or even usefulness. All of our vehicle entries (except the Dreadnought, which they increased in price and removed options from, cheers) are identical to vanilla Marines. Its so dumb. 

 

That said, the new Raven is great at killing other Flyers with its missiles alone. I'd be trending towards a typhoon and twin-lascannon these days, you need high Strength firepower to break through Knights and other high AV, I find Rending unreliable (especially without psybolts now). Hurricances took a hit with losing psybolts, I honestly don't think they're worth it now (S5 could at least threaten a lot of enemy Flyers and rear AV on ground targets, S4 doesn't except on 6's). The nose multi-melta is a lot weaker in 7th due to the damage table changes, you have to roll a 5 on a pen :( . 

 

One small changes is that the Raven now has a locator beacon instead of a teleport homer as an upgrade (courtesy of mindless copypaste from the Marine book). This means anyone leaping out using its 'Shadow Skies' rule doesn't scatter if you choose to land close by, which is great for Purifiers and other non-TDA models. 

[Brom MKIV]

I like your points on the weaponry RD except my perspective on the hurricanes. I haven't used them yet so there is that, but I also didn't get to use the superior s5 version either so I don't have that feeling of using something that's been downgraded.

I just see a 30 pt weapon that shoots slightly better than 8 storm bolters.

Now this might be flawed but my plan is to expend 3-4 of the missiles first turn (depending on success of the reusable weapons first), after which I would like to keep that level of firepower up, and the potential is pretty decent that the gunship will be wanting to shoot something with a toughness value or even av10 by then.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I like your points on the weaponry RD except my perspective on the hurricanes. I haven't used them yet so there is that, but I also didn't get to use the superior s5 version either so I don't have that feeling of using something that's been downgraded.

I just see a 30 pt weapon that shoots slightly better than 8 storm bolters.

Now this might be flawed but my plan is to expend 3-4 of the missiles first turn (depending on success of the reusable weapons first), after which I would like to keep that level of firepower up, and the potential is pretty decent that the gunship will be wanting to shoot something with a toughness value or even av10 by then.

 

That's the thing though. Do you need to spend points on yet more S4 firepower, when you already have it in spades? 

 

Raven's are already a pretty pricey investment, I'd try to keep them as cheap as you can. By the time you run out of missiles you're probably dead anyway. 

[Shadrach03]

I had never thought about the combination of shadow skies and locator beacon, that is brilliant sir .