40k Vs 30k games

[Cian]

Hi folk, right at the start i have to point out that i know nothing of how Heresy Era rules work allthough i am familiar with the back ground, i have done a search on this site for clarification but my search skills are poor ( if there is another thread that can answer my question please redirect me) and if this question is in the wrong place please move it.

My mate wants to play 30k against my 40k DA and my sons Eldar, he finds ALL the 40k codex boring (his words not mine).My son and i are not willing to fork out more money on more models as what we have represents a large investment of time and money. 

Can it be done (im imagining part of a traitor legion being thrown through time to 40k) and what are the pitfalls ?

My mate seems to think it can easily be done but i just dont know, he has considered all the new (since 6th) codex and can find nothing he likes !!!

 

Many thanks

Cian

[*Furyou Miko]

Works just fine, to be honest. The Forge World rules are rather tighter than the standard 40k ones, just as long as he doesn't try to ATSKNF with his 30k list!

[Brother Casman]

I'm just going to bump this over to the Horus Heresy forum, as I think you'll get a better answer here.

[Marshal Rohr]

The pricing of 30K units is cheaper than 40K counter parts, so you might wanna tweak costs, or allow yourself a 25% extra amount of points.

[Thoqqu]

I had a game with my am against some 30k marine army. They had some bizarre weapons that got to roll for additional wounds after each unsaved wound, that kind of made a dent in my blob but in the end there is nothing good ole deathstrike cant handle.

 

Other than the initial "what the?!" Moments when something new showed up it was quite like any game of 40k.

[Cian]

Thanks for the quick responses folk i shall bear in mind the ATSKNF and 25% and tell him to go ahead and start his army.

 

Cian

[Slips]

I had a game with my am against some 30k marine army. They had some bizarre weapons that got to roll for additional wounds after each unsaved wound, that kind of made a dent in my blob but in the end there is nothing good ole deathstrike cant handle.

 

Other than the initial "what the?!" Moments when something new showed up it was quite like any game of 40k.

Ah, Volkites :D Nothing beats Martian Death Lazer Guns! (thats literally what they are)

[Dono1979]

I'd hold off on the 25% one unless your playing 2.5k or more. At two thousand points and under most 30k lists will actually be on the foot against a 40k list

[Cian]

Dono1979 we mainly play 3000 pts, 2 Vs 1, so do you think the 25% is needed................................. we could always try it without the extra and see how it goes because the way we play it could get really complex !

What the hell does a volkite cannon do???? any other  old tech i should know about??

 

 

Cian

[Komrk]

Grav guns work differently in 30k

[Dono1979]

Yeah the 3K point level is starting to allow the 30K player to field some pretty versatile toys and big units, however it will probably be worth playing a few games and seeing how things go.

 

I wouldnt get too stressed about the different weapons and suchlike, there arent too many of them and it is just like learning a new raft of units and weapons as if a new Codex had dropped (just like the new Spave Wolves).

[Russ Brother 92]

Firstly I would (as a 30k player who routinely plays bs 40k forces) get him to go through the niggly rules with you and your son prior (in small games this would take perhaps 10 mins) so you know what is what beforehand (this also stops games slowing up at all), most rules are very simple and as long as he doesn't try to pull a fast one (the above mentioned Martian death rays are Volkites which vary in strength, range and number of shots based on which variant they are- can never get any extra wounds after the initial first set, so if he has a volkite caliver (most common variant) he gets 2 shots, if both hit, one wounds and is unsaved then he gets 1 extra wound role, however after this one, even if it wounds, he does NOT get anymore from that weapon in that shooting phase) but the rules are all very clear and very well balanced.

 

Sorry for the wall-of-text essentially 30k vs 40k is more than doable just ensure he explains things thoroughly prior to the game :)

[Brofist]

I play 30k in 40k almost exclusively. The only point of confusion is what FOC to use- just ask him to use the one from the BRB and you’ll be just fine. Also don’t let him ally anybody outside of the Horus Heresy books.

 

The pricing of 30K units is cheaper than 40K counter parts, so you might wanna tweak costs, or allow yourself a 25% extra amount of points.

That’s crazy and very misleading.

 

Some 30k units cost less for better stats, sure, but you have to look at the entire picture. You often pay more points up front. In the end, you use the cheaper options to balance out the high points investment to unlock them in the first place. It’s rather well balanced at 1500-2000 points.

 

Example: The “10 point marines” everybody talks about doesn’t account for the 150+ you have to sink into the squad before you even get the option to pay 10 points for an extra body. By the time your squad is maxed out with “10 point marines” it still comes out to be 12.5 points per head. This doesn’t even account for extra wargear, a ride, or an IC. With those thrown in you’re looking at 200-350 points for a single troops choice. That’s really expensive, so those 20 points you save buying a cheaper predator tank afterwards? Pretty necessary after you spent 700 points just on troops.

[Marshal Rohr]

Considering FW themselves said let your opponent take a free lord of war or something to balance it, I hardly find that crazy.

[Brofist]

The Errata says they get access to the lords of war slot. They still have to pay points for it. 

 

Sorry if it came off too direct. Its just that a 25% point difference is a pretty big handicap, especially at lower point levels.

[Marshal Loss]

I've never felt like 40k needed some kind of advantage against a 30k army. At smaller points costs, 30k is at a huge disadvantage. Between 2000-3000ish is where 30k starts to shine I feel, and any more than that and it's basically Apocalypse and it doesn't matter anyway. Literally the only thing that 30k should consider not taking against 40k forces are Primarchs, who are very difficult to deal with in a 2k point game.

[Volt]

After the horrible thing that was the 6th Edition CSM codex, I'd just use legion rules for the non daemonic legions. Or take a main detachment of 30k troops following your chosen legion rules, with the daemon engines, cult troops, etc taken as CSM allies. You have to ask permission for people to play a game anyway, it's not pokemon, so I don't see how 30k legion rules would ever complicate things. If anything they improve them.

[Nehekhare]

The pricing of 30K units is cheaper than 40K counter parts, so you might wanna tweak costs, or allow yourself a 25% extra amount of points.

 

Considering FW themselves said let your opponent take a free lord of war or something to balance it, I hardly find that crazy.

 

my gods, educate yourself before posting...

 

The Horus Heresy Volume 1: Betrayal Errata & Addenda – Version 1.1 Amended 8th May 2013:

 

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in

games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

 

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all

designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and

focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the

Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

 

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against

your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with

Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that

you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For

example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in

Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing

within their own sphere.) [i.e. HH units usually cost MORE than codex units]

 

In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be

used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of

Darkness Force Organisation chart [i.e. with a Lord of War choice that standart 40k FOCs didn't have back then in 6th ed.],

and the specific provisions within [i.e. max. 25% of your pts may be LoW - standart 40k doesn't have such restrictions], and in games of 2,000 points or greater.

[Russ Brother 92]

=][= deleted my comment due to possible inflammatory comments =][=

[Hyaenidae]

Be at peace, brothers. It's a game, and the point is made. Move on.

[Russ Brother 92]

Sorry brother I got a incensed - B2C sorry for any offense caused not intentional brother.

 

OP: Best of luck facing the heresy with your future boys :)

[Cian]

Thanks folk, having talked to my mate about this we have decided to go for it. He's gonna browse 30k till he finds something he likes and we will try to make it work for us, after all he will have to pay out a substantial amount of cash and i dont want to see his investment wasted and im pretty sure he doesnt either !

 

Cian

[Marshal Rohr]

The pricing of 30K units is cheaper than 40K counter parts, so you might wanna tweak costs, or allow yourself a 25% extra amount of points.

 

 

Considering FW themselves said let your opponent take a free lord of war or something to balance it, I hardly find that crazy.

 

my gods, educate yourself before posting...

 

 

The Horus Heresy Volume 1: Betrayal Errata & Addenda – Version 1.1 Amended 8th May 2013:

 

Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in

games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

 

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all

designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and

focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the

Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

 

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against

your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with

Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that

you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For

example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in

Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing

within their own sphere.) [i.e. HH units usually cost MORE than codex units]

 

In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be

used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of

Darkness Force Organisation chart [i.e. with a Lord of War choice that standart 40k FOCs didn't have back then in 6th ed.],

and the specific provisions within [i.e. max. 25% of your pts may be LoW - standart 40k doesn't have such restrictions], and in games of 2,000 points or greater.

[/quote

 

]

 

 

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/4b/0a/a9/4b0aa97ed0b9f1ee4853c70f4b099078.jpg

[Nehekhare]

 

"§$%&Hghn &/7§$%BV" RGV§B%NB$V% !!!

 

;)

[Telhdrat]

I've played a few games like this and everything worked just fine, though volkite culverins certainly rocked against some armies.

 

But aside from the things mentioned above, I think the Mechanicum lists is something you probably should discuss with your opponents beforehand. After all marines are still marines even if they have a few weird pieces of wargear and new special rules. They're still something everyone should be able to handle. But the Mechanicum lists are very unique and contain loads of new units, rules etc, and if they are not prepared to face lots of Castellax for example the game might get a bit awkward.