How to equip Thallax

[Daemon2027]

I have 15 Thallax as a start to my Taghmata force (as well as Castlellex and I am going to convert a magos) but I have no ideas how to use them. What special weapons should I take? I should also say they will be allied to Alpha Legion using the Great Crusade rules until they a big enough to fight alone.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The most common loadout is either photon thruster or multi-melta. The rad flamer would be cool but its only AP5, and the multi-laser is...a multi-laser. 

 

Multi-melta lets you focus the unit on tank-hunting. Absurdly it has longer range than your standard lightning gun, so for Deepstriking into enemy lines and blowing up some backfield vehicle, its pretty solid. 

 

Photon thruster is more for suppression and sniping. It has quite a long range, it forces Blind checks, its AP2 and you're already forcing -2 to the enemy's cover save thanks to Djinn Sight, so you can usually rely on the wounds sticking. It's not as good at anti-tank as a multi-melta, but it can strip HP and pen lighter armour on good rolls. 

 

edit: herpaderp, doesn't Pin. Was thinking of the mauler

[Daemon2027]

Ok cool. Seeing as I have a few i could have one unit with multi meltas and one with proton thrusters. Will be converting them but I may get the proton thrusters just to make up numbers.

[Emperors Teeth]

Remember you only get one fancy weapon for every 3 guys. So you're looking at units of 6 to get two multimelta's/Thrusters.

[Daemon2027]

Yeah I know. I have 15, thinking 2 units of 6, leaves me 3 to mess around with for conversions on other ad mech stuff.

[Chronozoah]

Photon thruster is more for suppression and sniping. It has quite a long range, it forces Blind checks, its AP2 and you're already forcing -2 to the enemy's cover save thanks to Djinn Sight, so you can usually rely on the wounds sticking. It also Pins, on the rare occasion someone fails a Morale check to it. It's not as good at anti-tank as a multi-melta, but it can strip HP and pen lighter armour on good rolls. 

One must also bare in mind the 'Gets Hot!' rule. The Photon Thruster is not particularly effective vehicles, and this in conjunction with a low shot count and the risk of self-wounding means that one must very carefully consider their targets when fielding the Photon Thruster on the Thallax. Your best targets will probably be MCs or low-initiative but otherwise dangerous infantry blobs. Firing at anything else would waste the potential of the Photon Thruster which made it worth considering - mid-range AP2 shooting with a chance of blinding.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

One must also bare in mind the 'Gets Hot!' rule. The Photon Thruster is not particularly effective vehicles, and this in conjunction with a low shot count and the risk of self-wounding means that one must very carefully consider their targets when fielding the Photon Thruster on the Thallax. Your best targets will probably be MCs or low-initiative but otherwise dangerous infantry blobs. Firing at anything else would waste the potential of the Photon Thruster which made it worth considering - mid-range AP2 shooting with a chance of blinding.

 

Eh, you have 6+ FNP and 3 wounds, so 'Gets Hot!' rarely kills you anyway. I agree about target priority, its only 2 shots so make it count. I'd also clarify it has 48" range on a Relentless platform, that's not mid-range, its long range. Blinding AND Pinning, although Blinding is more powerful. 

[Daemon2027]

Decided to go with 2 squads of 6 with 2 melts each. Will use them as support units I think. Thanks for the help guys, may add Photon Thrusters at a later date.

[Still Standing]

I run a unit of 6 with 2 Photon-Thrusters, and a unit of 6 without special weapons.  I give everybody Destructor (tank hunter) and Heavy Chainblades.  They always perform extremely well and are well worth their points.  The rest of my army is made up of a Archmagos with survivability upgrades, 5-10 Castellax with Maulers and Flamers, a Thanatar or two and Myrmidons to flavour.  Generally my opponents get overwhelmed with targets and leave my Thallax more or less alone to do their thing.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

How often do you find the chainblades worthwhile?

[Still Standing]

Most of the time.  The ability to reliably kill vehicles in combat AND wounding most enemies on a 2+ is very good.  If you play a lot against 40k amies, or against other Mechanicum armies it's worth even more due to the AP4.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Most of the time.  The ability to reliably kill vehicles in combat AND wounding most enemies on a 2+ is very good.  If you play a lot against 40k amies, or against other Mechanicum armies it's worth even more due to the AP4.

 

It is the price of a powerfist, but I see what you mean. Given their anti-tank focus, S7 melee is very good for smashing rear AV in melee. 

[Daemon2027]

Quick question, are the chain blades that come with the FW set good enough to count as heavy chainblades. They are quite large.

[Still Standing]

It's what everybody I know uses them as.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Quick question, are the chain blades that come with the FW set good enough to count as heavy chainblades. They are quite large. 

 

 

Yeah that's why that part exists, to represent the upgrade. 

[Daemon2027]

Cool, seems like I have been equipping my Thallax with heavy chainblades already!

[Chronozoah]

 

Eh, you have 6+ FNP and 3 wounds, so 'Gets Hot!' rarely kills you anyway. I agree about target priority, its only 2 shots so make it count. I'd also clarify it has 48" range on a Relentless platform, that's not mid-range, its long range. Blinding AND Pinning, although Blinding is more powerful. 

True, however, the possibility of wounding yourself by firing your weapon is worth noting. It killing you isn't the issue, it's that it serves to undermine the durability of the unit and make them easier to slay. As far as ranges go, I classify the 24" to 48" bracket as mid-range, anything lesser to be short range, and anything greater to be long-range. 'I'm not sure how you go about determining the terminology on different range values and their applications, but this is how I've calculated it.

 

Blinding and pinning?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

True, however, the possibility of wounding yourself by firing your weapon is worth noting. It killing you isn't the issue, it's that it serves to undermine the durability of the unit and make them easier to slay. As far as ranges go, I classify the 24" to 48" bracket as mid-range, anything lesser to be short range, and anything greater to be long-range. 'I'm not sure how you go about determining the terminology on different range values and their applications, but this is how I've calculated it.

 

It's a very minor drawback. Considering Marines and even IG regularly take plasma guns, 'Gets Hot!' isn't something I'd be worried about on Thallax. 

 

24"-36" is mid-range, as its still comfortably outside charge distance for most units, but within range of most anti-infantry and infantry-carried weapons. 36"+ is long range, as by that point you're talking about actual heavy weapons, vehicle mounted stuff etc. 48" is well and truly long range, most units can't hit you at that distance, and its hard to remain more than 48" from your opponent to avoid being shot by such weapons. Combine that with jetpacks, and Thallax with photon thrusters are very hard to hide from. 

 

Blinding and pinning?

 

Ah my mistake, was confusing it with the mauler (which does pin). 'Blind' is actually better in many ways, as Leadership tests rarely do much in 40k or 30k without big modifiers. 'Blind' on the other hand tests on Initiative, which is generally more likely to go off (Marines generally pass but a lot of xenos stuff won't). 

[Chronozoah]

It's a very minor drawback. Considering Marines and even IG regularly take plasma guns, 'Gets Hot!' isn't something I'd be worried about on Thallax. 

 

24"-36" is mid-range, as its still comfortably outside charge distance for most units, but within range of most anti-infantry and infantry-carried weapons. 36"+ is long range, as by that point you're talking about actual heavy weapons, vehicle mounted stuff etc. 48" is well and truly long range, most units can't hit you at that distance, and its hard to remain more than 48" from your opponent to avoid being shot by such weapons. Combine that with jetpacks, and Thallax with photon thrusters are very hard to hide from. 

Agreed, but it's always preferable to have all relevant information on-hand (or as much as possible, if possible) in order to make educated decisions, rather than finding out later that the unit can harm itself, that's all.

 

I will accept this methodology. I was making comparisons on various ranges available within 40k, from the shortest to the longest, and drawing conclusions based on relativity between them, and then placed the appropriate designations at regular intervals. However, if this is the common method of approaching the subject of range in Warhammer, tactically-speaking, then it makes some degree of sense.

 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Agreed, but it's always preferable to have all relevant information on-hand (or as much as possible, if possible) in order to make educated decisions, rather than finding out later that the unit can harm itself, that's all.

 

I can think of zero scenarios where I'm not firing photon thrusters. Between their three wounds, 4+ armour and FNP, Thallax have nothing to worry about. If Guard and Marines can take plasma on their 1-wound dudes and be comfortable with using them regularly, Mechanicum have nothing to complain about. 

I will accept this methodology. I was making comparisons on various ranges available within 40k, from the shortest to the longest, and drawing conclusions based on relativity between them, and then placed the appropriate designations at regular intervals. However, if this is the common method of approaching the subject of range in Warhammer, tactically-speaking, then it makes some degree of sense.

 

Weapon ranges (and for that matter movement) in 40k must be evaluated in the context of the mission and deployment type. In every deployment type, its rare to be further than 48" from the enemy (especially if you plan on capping objectives or advancing into weapon range with your own stuff). That's why weapons with 48"+ are typically expensive and limited in number (in theory at least), because their capacity to dominate the board is so crucial. Anything beyond 48" is usually more than enough, you almost don't have to measure range at that point. Even with 36" range, its not often the enemy aren't within range. 24" is more variable, hence why its the benchmark of most infantry weaponry (as bolters, lasgun, pulse rifle etc all have that reach and are commonly found in multiple armies). It's why 18" range on such an expensive unit as Thallax is so annoying, because you're forced to run into the enemy's killzones just to make weapon range. 

[Chronozoah]

Again, I agree, I was just making sure the OP was aware. There's no benefit to withholding information.

 

That makes sense. I will update my storage solutions accordingly and retain the information for future consideration and use. The Lightning Gun range is most unfortunate, as otherwise it is such a powerful weapon. That is probably the reason for it's limited range.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The Lightning Gun range is most unfortunate, as otherwise it is such a powerful weapon. That is probably the reason for it's limited range.

 

Either that or Heavy 2. I'd actually prefer the second shot, as missing with Thallax is pretty heartbreaking :(