Questoris-Knight Magaera

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, the new rules for the Mechanicum-modified Knight are out;

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/M/Magaera.pdf

 

It's even more durable than a normal Knight (arguably more durable than Gerantus too). Lightning cannon is eh, kinda wish you could keep the battle cannon on it. I'm hoping when the next HH campaign book comes out, you can swap for the particle beam cannon like you can on Krios battle tanks. Plasma fusil over heavy stubber is a very welcome upgrade. The melee upgrade is interesting too, adds another ranged weapon in the form of a twin rad cleanser. 

 

The price hike isn't too bad either, only 20pts more than a normal Knight for a big jump in toughness, at the cost of a little ranged output. 

[minionboy]

I really wish this was better for how many points it is.  You're paying 20 points to make the shield side marginally better, which is nice and all, but it really means little since that side was already ignoring 1/2 of the damage it receives anyhow.  The Blessed Autosimulacra is literally 1/2 as good as IWND, and it's gun has less than 1/2 of the damage output of a Paladin's rapid fire battle cannon.  With the Hekaton siege claw, you're now 45 points more expensive than a Paladin for a glorified twin-linked heavy flamer.  The Phased plasma-fusil is nice, but really it just serves the same purpose as a heavy stubber, allowing it to charge something it doesn't target with it's main weaponry...  The significantly lower damage output at a price tag significantly higher than a Lancer really just puts this titan into a bad place in my book.  That said, it looks awesome and I'll be adding one to my House Terryn forces, haha.

[librisrouge]

I'm already saving to acquire one for the forces of House Pelletier. That being said, I don't think its as good as the Errant or Paladin, at least not for the points increase and I'll probably go without the claw and stick to a Reaper Chainsword for it. I'll have to proxy it once or twice and I'm considering just converting a standard knight over to one to save some $$ in the deal.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 You're paying 20 points to make the shield side marginally better, which is nice and all, but it really means little since that side was already ignoring 1/2 of the damage it receives anyhow.

 

You did read the extra part about reducing Strength by 1, and blast/template Strength by 2 right? That's pretty huge. AV13 is already annoyingly high for most non-melta weapons to crack, and that little flare shield buff just makes it that much harder. S6 now cannot harm you, S7 needs 6's, S8 5's...I dunno about you but that's pretty daunting. 

The Blessed Autosimulacra is literally 1/2 as good as IWND

 

Well yeah, considering its only 20pts over a normal Knight, giving it IWND outright would've been a bit much. However, don't forget, with an Arch-Magos you can give it IWND anyway. 'Blessed Autosimulcra' is chancy, but given how difficult it is to even chip 1-2 HP off this guy, it might heal him over the course of the game. 

 it's gun has less than 1/2 of the damage output of a Paladin's rapid fire battle cannon. 

 

Completely agree. The lightning cannon has a lot of cool rules, but S7 is annoying and only being 1 shot doubly so. As I mentioned, hopefully in the final version of the rules they give it access to the pulsar-fusil. Mind you, the lightning cannon is by no means a bad gun, its just only 1 shot when you could have two. 

With the Hekaton siege claw, you're now 45 points more expensive than a Paladin for a glorified twin-linked heavy flamer. 

 

Fleshbane don't forget, and twin-linked means you pretty much always wound. AP5 is annoying though I agree, and its tiny range means you'll almost never use it. If it got upgraded in the final version of the rules to the Torrent rad flamer that would be sick. 

 

 

Keep in mind guys that this is just the experimental rules. He could go down in price, or get better upgrades/rules in the meantime. 

[minionboy]

The -1 strength to the facing with the shield is pretty redundant, you're already reducing the damage to that side by half.  The problem is that anyone with two brain cells to rub together avoids putting all their anti-tank in one arc of the Knight, the shield doesn't really add a whole ton more except making the side that they don't want to shoot even worse to shoot at.

 

Giving it IWND with an arch magos is cool and all, then you get two chances, but a 1/6 chance to get back 1 HP is super underwhelming, even with regular IWND I've rarely got a HP back that mattered with my regular knights (with my warlord that has a 3++ shield).

 

If the Lightning Cannon was 2 shots or a 7" blast, then we'd be talking about an interesting weapon that loses strength compared to the paladin, but makes up for it with other reasons... Currently it's just really really bad.

 

I wish Fleshbane was more interesting, wounding on a 2+ is cool, but it's still only AP5 and rad-phage only affects MODELS that are wounded... That really puts the gun in a weird place, it wants to lower the toughness of multi-wound monsters, but has a short ranged, low AP gun made for killing infantry.  If they upgraded it to the irad Engine, then we'd be in business.

 

Ultimately, I'm very glad it's experimental, because if these were final rules I'd be pretty dissatisfied and probably make it a counts-as Paladin.  360 at most with the claw would be appropriate leaving everything else unchanged, otherwise it's main gun needs to be more than a regular Lightning Cannon.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The -1 strength to the facing with the shield is pretty redundant, you're already reducing the damage to that side by half.  The problem is that anyone with two brain cells to rub together avoids putting all their anti-tank in one arc of the Knight, the shield doesn't really add a whole ton more except making the side that they don't want to shoot even worse to shoot at.

 

Well a 4+ invul doesn't stop everything. And yeah, you can flank it, but that's true of any vehicle. My point is, if you're forced to shoot its front arc, its absurd how much firepower it can absorb. S7 can't hurt you (just realised Knights are AV13 front and side), S8 needs 6's...that's huge. 

Giving it IWND with an arch magos is cool and all, then you get two chances, but a 1/6 chance to get back 1 HP is super underwhelming, even with regular IWND I've rarely got a HP back that mattered with my regular knights (with my warlord that has a 3++ shield).

 

Well actually the Arch-Magos bonus replaces 'Blessed', so you just get the IWND roll. Hey, its nice to have a regen rule, even if it is chancy. 

If the Lightning Cannon was 2 shots or a 7" blast, then we'd be talking about an interesting weapon that loses strength compared to the paladin, but makes up for it with other reasons... Currently it's just really really bad.

 

Agreed. That's why I'm hoping for some cool alternative weapons when its finalised in the next HH book. 

I wish Fleshbane was more interesting, wounding on a 2+ is cool, but it's still only AP5 and rad-phage only affects MODELS that are wounded... That really puts the gun in a weird place, it wants to lower the toughness of multi-wound monsters, but has a short ranged, low AP gun made for killing infantry.  If they upgraded it to the irad Engine, then we'd be in business.

 

 

Yeah agree as well. Irad-engine would be fantastic, its kinda dumb a super-heavy wouldn't be mounting the most powerful version of a weapon class. 

[jeffersonian000]

I thought the Castigator had a set of awkward rules, the Magaera goes off the rails on the FW crazy train. 395+ points for a subpar Paladin with a bunch of odd special rules. Having Weapon options is nice, though, and should be implemented for all Knights moving forward. I2 blows. It's like FW couldn't figure out a role for this guy, so they're throwing a bunch of stuff on to the wall to see what sticks. It's obviously a bridge between the AdMech 30k army and Imperial Knights, but us not very good. Hope they clean up the rules before going official.

 

SJ

[Battybattybats]

Did folks forget you can repair a knight with the right tooled Arch-Magos or Techpriest Auxilia? And that Auxilia can get a scary high roll if you kit it out with a lot of servo arms?
 

So far i tend to keep my knight charging forward so have only repaired the Castellax, but once i finish my 2nd knight (which i set aside for a little while half-built mainly because i don't think it fair to unleash on my friends till they have a better handle on taking down just one!) the 1st Paladin will more often hold back and hit at a distance allowing a repair crew to sit behind it.

[minionboy]

Did folks forget you can repair a knight with the right tooled Arch-Magos or Techpriest Auxilia? And that Auxilia can get a scary high roll if you kit it out with a lot of servo arms?

 

So far i tend to keep my knight charging forward so have only repaired the Castellax, but once i finish my 2nd knight (which i set aside for a little while half-built mainly because i don't think it fair to unleash on my friends till they have a better handle on taking down just one!) the 1st Paladin will more often hold back and hit at a distance allowing a repair crew to sit behind it.

 

The problem is that you can repair any knight, it doens't make the Magaera better.  :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

395+ points for a subpar Paladin with a bunch of odd special rules.

 

Eh, the lightning gun is worse than the battle cannon, but its still a large blast AP3 that re-rolls to wound. Could've been worse. I think defensively its a lot tougher than a normal Knight, people are really underestimating how intimidating flare shield can be. Given its experimental rules, I'm sure alternative weapon options will be made available. 

 It's like FW couldn't figure out a role for this guy, so they're throwing a bunch of stuff on to the wall to see what sticks. It's obviously a bridge between the AdMech 30k army and Imperial Knights, but us not very good. Hope they clean up the rules before going official.

 

His role is to show-case cool AdMech guns, sadly lightning weaponry is overwhelmingly mediocre :( . I'm holding out hope the final version will be able to mount a pulsar-fusil in place of the lightning cannon, like the Krios can. 

 

The problem is that you can repair any knight, it doens't make the Magaera better.  

 

 

Pretty much. Having said that, I think 20pts for the flare shield upgrade is well worth it. It'll mean you are repairing less, and if you can give it IWND with an Arch-Magos, you are golden. 

[minionboy]

if it was just 20 points more with a flare shield, that'd be one thing, but honestly, I run knights in nearly every game I play these days... I can't remember a single time losing a knight due to firepower in the side I was already protecting.  :)

 

If you want to kill things with that lightning cannon, you're far better off with the Paladin unfortunately.  If the Magaera was 375 WITH the claw, then I'd consider it for fun, but at 420 with the claw, it's just extremely over priced.

 

I don't think that the Magaera will get a Pulsar Fusil, since the model doesn't have one, but I could see them making a totally new admech knight with one some day... which would be awesome.

[BassWave]

Hopefully they'll make the knight's lightning cannon have heavy 2. That would be enough for me. A pulsar fusil variant would be awesome against heavier vehicles, especially other knights. Knights could use a long range anti heavy vehicle variant. All the weapons so far are more focused on anti infantry. The Errant is pretty good, but at 18 inch melta bonus range, you are about to charge anyway. A sniper knight would be boss.

[librisrouge]

What we need is the Knight Crusader. TL Lascannon and QUAKE CANNON! Rock the ranged goodness.

 

http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx141/librisrouge/image_zps889eb32c.jpeg

[Brother Paen]

I'm waiting for the fire support variants....barely,...I'm tempted to convert.

[jeffersonian000]

Knights are the new black. I'm happy FW is kicking out variants, its GW that needs to be adding more Knight kits. We need upgrade rules and option kits from GW, because a Knights are a resounding hit with the fanbase. Yes, FW can kick out those kits, but they seem to be enthralled with their own Knight-pattern.

 

What I'd like to see with the Magaera is a lower base price and less odd-ball rules. The upgrades are great, keep those!

 

SJ

[Brother Paen]

Yeah GW needs to step up.

I'm lookin at the Las cannons from a firestorm redoubt and turning the battlecannon arm upside down , bulking it up , and adding a different barrel. Add some chunkier armor to the legs and some bracing to the carapace and voila , one Crusader.

[librisrouge]

How would you adjust the Crusader, rules wise?

 

I'm thinking:

AV 13/13/12 to represent the bulked up carapace

Armed with TL Lascannon and Quake Cannon

Hulking Firepower - 6" movement to represent the bulkier design

Supportive Fire - If Knight does not move in the movement phase AND another Knight has Line of Sight to the targeted model, either:

     A- TL Lascannon may fire twice

     B- TL Lascannon gains skyfire

     C- Wounds inflicted by Quake Cannon must re-roll cover saves

Martial Pride - May not be designated as Knight Seneschal

 

Points: 385

Edited September 23, 2014 by librisrouge

[BassWave]

The twin linked las cannon will probably become a laser destroyer if the crusader gets updated.

[minionboy]

Oh don't even start getting my hopes and dreams up for a Crusader/Castellan chassis...

 

My vision is:

Crusader

14/13/12 HP6

Lumbering: Only moves 6" a turn

Volcano Cannon, Rapier Laser Destroyer

Overtaxed Reactor: +1 to Catastrophic table.

 

Castellan

14/13/12 HP6

Lumbering: Only moves 6" a turn

Quake Cannon, Gatling Autocannon (heavy 6 Autocannon)

 

My guess for these variants would put them in at 400-425, considering a Shadowsword is 455 (and banesword is 430), has the same armour, but 50% more 9 HP and can move faster, I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

I think you could even just make a counts-as conversion with 2-3 sets of twin heavy bolters, 2 lascannons, and just use the Shadowsword/Banesword rules, though unfortunately that would require an IG CAD to run, or go funbound.

 

Even though the Volcano Cannon isn't canon (see what I did there), I think it would make it more interesting that the variants have totally different weaponry, instead of making the only difference be in the secondary weapon system.  Plus, if you've got the reactors going to power up a Rapier Laser, you might as well make bigger reactors and go full volcano.  :)

[Nakuth]

The twin linked las cannon will probably become a laser destroyer if the crusader gets updated.

 

Possibly a heavy laser destroyer? As used on the Destroyer Tank Hunter.

[Battybattybats]

Well the open day already showed another version with different claw finger design, a different head that's half-skull with a vox mouth, a grav gun instead of the plasma on the shoulder mount and volkite instead of lightning gun for the main gun.

I have no idea of the relative value of those weapons, nor whether FW will have it still have the fancy upgraded shield though the shield emitter looks the same, but the head has me wanting for my force.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Volkite? Ah jeez...I mean, it'll probably Deflagrate for D6 or something...but AP5 on a Knight-Titan? Sigh...

[Nusquam]

Volkite? Ah jeez...I mean, it'll probably Deflagrate for D6 or something...but AP5 on a Knight-Titan? Sigh...

 

Unless its a Volkite Cannonade...

[BassWave]

 

 

Volkite? Ah jeez...I mean, it'll probably Deflagrate for D6 or something...but AP5 on a Knight-Titan? Sigh...

Unless its a Volkite Cannonade...

Oooooh my...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Unless its a Volkite Cannonade...

 

 

A Tech-Priest can dream :) I'd be super-happy if we got it, but I doubt it.