Imperial Armour Discussion: Tanks

[Jolemai]

With a number of units and options from Forgeworld's various Imperial Armour books available for the Blood Angels to use the aim here is to 1) share and impart our collective knowledge to our fellow Captains and 2) promote discussion on use and synergies regarding the lesser-known potential boons to our forces. I want this thread to remain in flux and will happily edit the first post as people reply with their own ideas so we can get the optimal use out of each unit.

A link to other similar reviews can be found from post #6 on the Blood Angels resources thread

Tanks

Below are seven tanks from Forgeworld's Imperial Armour series. Whilst each one will not win a game by itself, they each have a place and when used correctly can plug a hole in your force or even turn the tide of battle. Or simply, offer an alternative to what you usually take.

General Rules

• Are not Fast Vehicles unless otherwise stated
• AV 11/11/10, BS 4, HP 3 unless otherwise stated
• Vehicle (Tank), one per slot

Damocles Command Rhino

Availability

The rules are found on page 186 of Imperial Armour volume two Second Edition (IAv2SE). The model can be found here whilst the Deimos variant can be found here. A simple conversion can be achieved by acquiring a satellite dish and placing it on the turret where a Razorback’s weapon goes.

Rules

• 25 points more than a C:BA Rhino but no transport option
• HQ choice but doesn’t fill a HQ slot
• AV 11/11/11, no repair special rule
• Storm Bolter, Teleport Beacon (Teleporting units do not scatter within 12”), Command Vox Relay (+1 or -1 to reserve rolls whilst the tank is on the table), Orbital Bombardment
• Usual spread of options, priced as per C:SM

Use

Simply put, any army that relies on reserves should not leave home without this tank as the reserve manipulation it can do is worth its weight in gold. Deployment should see this tank hidden away out of sight: not only do you not want it sniped but the Orbital Bombardment doesn’t require line of sight to fire. Either use Servo Skulls to mitigate the scatter or fire it into a well populated area. Once these two primary uses are done, it can be used like any other Rhino: Tank Shock, rolling cover, irritation. As your tank is likely to be at your baseline come turn two, using the Teleport Beacon is situational. Terminators could be called down if assist clearing out your backline, but without Gate of Infinity or a suitable transport they are stranded. Alternatively, you could blast forward to help your Terminators get in position, but this would only work with target saturation.

Deimos pattern Predator Executioner

[Disclaimer]

Whilst it may appear that all the Deimos Predators were rolled into one entry (IAv2SE, Page 75), rules still exist for this variant which state that the Blood Angels may take them. When questioned, FW replied with the following basically stating that if you want it, go for it. Hence, this update It should be noted that the latter rules add Relic of the Armoury to this tank and it's 50 points cheaper...

Availability

The rules can be found on page 155 of Imperial Armour XII. The model is found here. Conversions can be made using a 1st/2nd edition Predator as a base (or using a regular Deimos Predator) and switching in the weaponry from a different source.

Rules

• 50 points more than a C:BA Predator, same stats, same slot.
• Searchlight, smoke launchers, plasma destroyer (36", SR 7, AP 2, Heavy 3, 3" Blast) which may be replaced by a heavy conversion beamer (0-18", STR 6, AP - / 18-42" STR 8, AP 4 / 42-72", STR 10, AP 1, Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Firing Calibration [can't fire if Tank moves])
• Heavy bolters or lascannon sponsons
• Extra armour, dozer blade, hunter-killer missile and storm bolter upgrades. Can not have the Overcharged Engines upgrade

Use

A three shot plasma cannon will always have a role, especially given its 48" threat radius. Unlike Devastators, it's not a static unit and can potentially wipe a squad of TEQ each turn. Battle of Keylek (discussed here) is a nice upgrade to help it ignore cover. As for the alternative option, this is one of the few ways of getting a heavy conversion beamer into our force. Best at range, this tank could work well in a list that uses a static firebase with a counter attack punch. Again, the Battle of Keylek upgrade could be a gamewinner on a STR 10 5" Blast...

Deimos Vindicator Laser Destroyer

Vindicator Laser Destroyer by gav1892

Availability

The rules are found on a PDF format here while the official model can be found here. Conversion-wise, taking the laser destroyer array from any sponson (Fellblade/Sicaran) or from a Rapier and placing it into a Rhino chassis could suffice. There are some suitable third party bits to go on the roof for tubing/ventilation.

Rules

• 10 points more than a Vindicator, same stats, same options
• Smoke launchers, searchlight, one laser destroyer array (48", STR 9, AP 1, Ordnance 1, Twin-linked)
• Power Capacitor (Three fire modes. Regular, Capacitor Fire [if tank doesn't move, it becomes Ordnance 2, Twin-linked] and Overcharge Fire [if tank hasn't moved, owning player may select this mode. Weapon becomes Ordnance 3, Twin-linked but on a D6 roll of 1 will take 1 HP damage]

Use

Where a regular Vindicator is for killing troops, this one is for downing vehicles. AP 1 is +2 on the vehicle damage table, Ordnance allows you to roll two dice and pick the highest meaning you should penetrate. The best part is that you can increase the odds quite a bit if you don't move allowing you to cause a lot of damage. It does suffer damage like a regular Vindicator, so the storm bolter upgrade is a good "save" on weapon damage results. Straightforward so far, but there are some interesting bits. First, this is not a Relic tank meaning it is spammable (should you be that way inclined). Given the wording on the PDF, it can purchase Overcharged Engines (!) which gives us a 60" threat range with an Ordnance weapon - this is huge. Also, we can add Legacies. Give it Battle of Sarosh (discussed here) for the ultimate anti-Flyer weapon, Schism of Mars for Tank Hunter or even Icon of Glory for BS 5.

Infernum pattern Razorback

Availability

The rules are found on page 187 of IAv2SE. The official conversion kit can be found here another option would be to get the multi-melta Tarantula as the model is essentially the same as the conversion kit, but affords you more options. Alternatively, a simple conversion can be achieved in the same way one would convert a Flamerback: by modifying the existing Razorback options. I believe there are some suitable third party versions too.

Rules

• Costs the same as a C:BA Bolterback
• Dedicated transport
• As per the Razorback entry in C:BA, but without the Fast rule

Use

On the one hand it gives you an additional anti-tank weapon choice at a cheaper price than our current options. On the other hand, the lack of it being Fast means it won’t keep up with any other Rhino chassis in our force. As a Dedicated Transport I can see this tank being a good option for a Reclusiam Command Squad as the Razorback for them isn’t Fast either (but that’s a different thread, coming soon!), or possibly for a counter attack unit for the rest of our Codex. If you need a cheap anti-tank, then this option can work at the cost of it being twin-linked like the more expensive options. At the end of the day it’s still a Razorback that needs to get within 12” to make the most of the Melta rule – which means it’s not going to last long.

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank

Sicaran by Aubéron

Availability

The rules are found on page 79 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here. As for converting, the model is the approximately the same size as a Land Raider, but with the front half cut away at an angle. Not one for the faint hearted…

Rules

• Base cost is the same as a C:BA “Autolas” Predator
• Heavy Support
• AV 13/12/12, Fast
• Relic of the Armoury (need a Reclusiarch should you want two or more with this rule)
• Turret-mounted Twin-linked Accelerator Cannon (48”, STR 7, AP 4, Heavy 6, Rending, Rapid Tracking [no Jink saves allowed])
• Heavy Bolter, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight
• Can take Lascannon or Heavy Bolter sponsons, aswell as the usual vehicle upgrades

Use

To me, this is an Autolas on steroids and I see it fulfilling the same role: that of a transport popper. Not only that but as a Fast tank, it synergises well with our forces and flanked by some Baals or regular Predators will give your opponent a headache. As mentioned here, the following Legacies of Glory could be of use: Battle of Sarosh (gain Night Vision, Skyfire, Interceptor and Tank Hunter for one phase of shooting with the turret), War of Murder (Monster Hunter USR, friends within 6” are Fearless), Battle of Terra (gains It Will Not Die).

Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

Availability

The rules are found on page 93 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here. A conversion could work using a third party kit.

Rules

• Same price as a Furioso Dreadnought
• Heavy Support
• AV 13/12/10
• Relic of the Armoury (need a Reclusiarch should you want two or more with this rule)
• Scorpius Multi-Launcher (48”, STR 8, AP 2, Heavy 1, Barrage, 3” Blast, Rocket Barrage [if tank does not move, rate of fire becomes Heavy D3+1])
• Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight, usual upgrades

Use

On paper this looks like an expensive Whirlwind, however, for the price you have Predator armour and an anti-MEQ (Marine Equivalent) blast. Should you remain still – which you will be doing anyway with a Whirlwind – the increase in first rate on what is essentially a Krak Missile with a Blast radius can be devastating to anything from Monstrous Creatures to Transports. It’s just a shame it can’t target Flyers. As mentioned here, adding the Battle of Keylek Legacy of Glory is often a good choice as the main gun will ignore cover…

Whirlwind Hyperios Air Defense Tank

Availability

The rules are found on page 89 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here or alternatively, the Air Defense Missile Launcher can be purchased which fits into the same turret space as a Razorback’s weapon.

Rules

• Ten points cheaper than a Furioso Dreadnought
• Heavy Support
• Hyperios Missile Launcher (48”, STR 8, AP 3, Heavy 1, Skyfire, Interceptor, Heat Seeker [ re-roll To Hit rolls against Flyers, Fast Skimmers and Super Heavy Flyers])
• As per the Whirlwind entry

Use

Sadly, the 7^th edition has not been very kind to this tank as it’s affected by the changes to having both Skyfire and Interceptor (will now always snap fire at ground targets), and the vehicle damage table (i.e Krak Missiles can no longer one shot things). Couple these to the usual Whirlwind drawbacks that many a player laments (i.e. one shot and one per slot) and this tank will often get overlooked. However, it does have a niche counter: Serpent Spam and Flying Circus. Skimmers are for all intents and purposes treated as Flyers for the purpose of Skyfire, so the tank will happily hit it and hit it well. Here, the legacy of Glory Schism of Mars *may* be worth it. As for Flying Monstrous Creatures, it’s a Krak Missile that can target them at BS so which is always going to hurt. However, there are probably better options out there for countering both of these.

[Footnote]

The rules for the Hyperios look to be changing to Heavy 2 in the near future (reasoning being that all future releases have those stats. This makes the Hyperios a bit more valuable and hopefully, this will be FAQ'd in the near future.

Summary

So there you have it. Five tank variants, each of which has at least a small role to play in our army. A HQ tank for reserve manipulation, another choice for transport, an impressive battle tank and two Whirlwind variants, each of which have a roll that greatly differs from that of the more commonplace version.

Once again, please discuss the above or let me know of any errors of things to add to this post. Alternatively have you used these? Post your reports below!

[tsijben]

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank is just great, my favourite upgrade is Schism of Mars which gives it Tank Hunter, immunity against Haywire and sometimes +1BS and that for a really small price.

I also disagree it's just a Transport-killer, it has 6 TL S7-shots with Tank Hunter and ignoring Jink.

It's also a great model to carry two lascannons, which can also benefit from the Tank Hunter.

The beauty is that it's also a Fast Tank, which makes it fit perfectly with Blood Angels.

 

Damocles Command is just too expensive for what it does, I don't really like it.

With DoA I do not really need a modifier to my reserve-rolls.

[Jolemai]

Just wanted to add that the following battle tanks from Forgeworld are unavailable to Blood Angels:

 

• Deimos Predator (which includes the Heavy Conversion Beamer, Plasma Destroyer, Magna-melta Cannon, Flamestorm Cannon turrets, as well as the base load out)
• Anything that's 30k only i.e. the Legion Sicaran Venerator, Legion Basilisk, Legion Medusa
• Anything from IAv2SE that's either Grey Knights or Sisters of Battle (as in, you need to bring them in via the ally system)

[Jolemai]

Of course, what you do in your own games with your opponents permission makes this post moot :)

[Ovidius Incertus]

As I've just started building some Deimos pattern Rhino-backs using the FW las-plas turrets, it didn't even occur to me to use the Tarantulas to further vary my Rhino-back options.  Thanks for the ideas for getting a Damocles and Hyperios into the mix without buying a whole kit or doing lots of converting.  Also gives you the Tarantula itself, so two birds with one stone.

[Jolemai]

Happy to help :)

[Shaezus]

Have only played two games with Sicarans so far, they haven't yet had the chance to shine against jetbikes and serpents and I think the lascannon sponsons will help when up against multiple MCs.

 

The damocles fits my list perfectly and is worth every point. Making your reserves come in on a 2+ or 4+ is a nice difference. Again not much luck with the bombard so far but that too can influence the game by itself. I like to try and drop it on the enemy HQ on turn 1.

 

The Scorpius is brutal, I've run it in the past and it blasted everything it targeted, but I found in tourny it would have been better in a mech list. It drew so much fire, it only got to fire itself once in three games. The perfet power-scalpel with the right list though.

[Sans Mercy]

Have only played two games with Sicarans so far, they haven't yet had the chance to shine against jetbikes and serpents and I think the lascannon sponsons will help when up against multiple MCs.

 

The damocles fits my list perfectly and is worth every point. Making your reserves come in on a 2+ or 4+ is a nice difference. Again not much luck with the bombard so far but that too can influence the game by itself. I like to try and drop it on the enemy HQ on turn 1.

 

The Scorpius is brutal, I've run it in the past and it blasted everything it targeted, but I found in tourny it would have been better in a mech list. It drew so much fire, it only got to fire itself once in three games. The perfet power-scalpel with the right list though.

I'm quite jelly of all three of those toys and want to add the latter two to my force. The Damocles and the Scorpius should be easy to mod and swap out with a rhino transport; mount a radar or an enormous f*off rack of missiles.

 

     I suppose if the Scorpius draws an alpha strike then its done its job is some sense. Still, front AV13 on a sweet artillery piece, gottahaveit!

[Shaezus]

El Cheapo nastio old rhino chassis with the radar from a land raider crusader - not as big but it'll have to do me for now. Just using an old whirlwind as the scorpius too, when I use it.

 

Try out the battle of keylek legacy of glory :)

[Jolemai]

Just to add, it looks as though Forgeworld have discontinued the Air Defense Command Platform, meaning one will have to be more inventive when converting a Damocles.

[Praefectus Invictus]

Well, it seems that a Whirliwind and Sicaran are my next purchases. The Scorpius seems amazing, the bane of terminators everywhere. 

 

Liking this thread.

[sockwithaticket]

Just to add, it looks as though Forgeworld have discontinued the Air Defense Command Platform, meaning one will have to be more inventive when converting a Damocles.

Can't say I ever noticed it disappearing, but it's available for sale at the moment.

[Shaezus]

Well, it seems that a Whirliwind and Sicaran are my next purchases. The Scorpius seems amazing, the bane of terminators everywhere.

 

Liking this thread.

The scorp is only AP 3 :)

[Jolemai]

Oops. Will fix that when I update it next week.

[Jolemai]

Just to add, it looks as though Forgeworld have discontinued the Air Defense Command Platform, meaning one will have to be more inventive when converting a Damocles.

Can't say I ever noticed it disappearing, but it's available for sale at the moment.

Glad to see it's back. Thought it was odd that it wasn't there...

[ThatOneMarshal]

Does anyone know any good conversions for the scorpius? I really want to try it out but $90 for one is way to much when for a little bit more I can buy myself a sicarian.

[Praefectus Invictus]

Does anyone know any good conversions for the scorpius? I really want to try it out but $90 for one is way to much when for a little bit more I can buy myself a sicarian.

Use a Whirlwind!

[Shaezus]

^ this

 

Used it as a proxy in a couple of tournies, no complaints. Apart from me, as it attracted fire like nobody's business. Folks just don't want it shooting at them. Great distraction though.

[korban]

Love that Damocles, very tempted. Just played a tournament where my Raven with 10 DC didn't come in till turn 4, in 2/3 of my first games, so a ran the DC up the board from then. Can't afford to have so many points coming in so late, even just the Raven by itself.

 

Would work well with a drop pod army, half the pods on turn 1, and pretty much the other half on turn 2.

 

Has anyone done a review on the non-tank Forgeworld items for BA?

[Jolemai]

Check the replies on the resource thread :)

 

I'll be doing the last two (Flyers and Support) either this month or next.

[Abdaziel Magron]

 

Just wanted to add that the following battle tanks from Forgeworld are unavailable to Blood Angels:

 

• Deimos Predator (which includes the Heavy Conversion Beamer, Plasma Destroyer, Magna-melta Cannon, Flamestorm Cannon turrets, as well as the base load out)

 

Just thought I'd mention that in Imperial Armour 12 - The Fall of Orpheus, Blood Angels have access to the Deimos Predator Executioner, with the Plasma Destroyer, with the option to exchange to a Heavy Conversion Beamer.

 

[Sturm Moonwolf]

Does anyone know any good conversions for the scorpius? I really want to try it out but $90 for one is way to much when for a little bit more I can buy myself a sicarian.

 

I use the old school Whirlwind for my Scorpius

 

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz69/JimKearney/Space%20Wolf%20Army/th_PART_1370974640620.jpg

[Jolemai]

 

 

 

Just wanted to add that the following battle tanks from Forgeworld are unavailable to Blood Angels:

 

• Deimos Predator (which includes the Heavy Conversion Beamer, Plasma Destroyer, Magna-melta Cannon, Flamestorm Cannon turrets, as well as the base load out)

Just thought I'd mention that in Imperial Armour 12 - The Fall of Orpheus, Blood Angels have access to the Deimos Predator Executioner, with the Plasma Destroyer, with the option to exchange to a Heavy Conversion Beamer.

Aye. There's also a PDF on the FW website that you can download. However, both of these are superseded by the newer publication IAv2SE whereby all Deimos tanks are rolled into one, with the options being an upgrade.

 

It is this which we can not take and as it's the most recent ruleset, it's the one we should follow.

[tsijben]

Do you have a rule telling us they are rolled into one?

 

FW and GW do this often, Necrons - as example - have both a Pylon and a Gauss Pylon.

Practically the same model, yet slightly different rules on them.

So unless we have a direct ruling telling us otherwise, we should treat units with a different name as a different units.

In the Necron-example the latest Gauss Pylon does not overwrite the regular Pylon.

[Jolemai]

OP updated to include the following:

Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner

[Disclaimer]

Whilst it may appear that all the Deimos Predators were rolled into one entry (IAv2SE, Page 75), rules still exist for this variant which state that the Blood Angels may take them. When questioned, FW replied with the following basically stating that if you want it, go for it. Hence, this update It should be noted that the latter rules add Relic of the Armoury to this tank and it's 50 points cheaper...

Availability

The rules can be found on page 155 of Imperial Armour 12 - The Fall of Orpheus. These rules are the same as the Experiment rules PDF. The model is found here. Conversions can be made using a 1st/2nd edition Predator as a base (or using a regular Deimos Predator) and switching in the weaponry from a different source.

Rules

• 50 points more than a C:BA Predator, same stats, same slot.
• Searchlight, smoke launchers, plasma destroyer (36", SR 7, AP 2, Heavy 3, 3" Blast) which may be replaced by a heavy conversion beamer (0-18", STR 6, AP - / 18-42" STR 8, AP 4 / 42-72", STR 10, AP 1, Heavy 1, 5" Blast, Firing Calibration [can't fire if Tank moves])
• Heavy bolters or lascannon sponsons
• Extra armour, dozer blade, hunter-killer missile and storm bolter upgrades. Can not have the Overcharged Engines upgrade

Use

A three shot plasma cannon will always have a role, especially given its 48" threat radius. Unlike Devastators, it's not a static unit and can potentially wipe a squad of TEQ each turn. Battle of Keylek (discussed here) is a nice upgrade to help it ignore cover. As for the alternative option, this is one of the few ways of getting a heavy conversion beamer into our force. Best at range, this tank could work well in a list that uses a static firebase with a counter attack punch. Again, the Battle of Keylek upgrade could be a gamewinner on a STR 10 5" Blast...

Deimos Vindicator Laser Destroyer

Availability

The rules are found in a PDFl format here while the official model can be found here. Conversion-wise, taking the laser destroyer array from any sponson (Fellblade/Sicaran) or from a Rapier and placing it into a Rhino chassis could suffice. There are some suitable third party bits to go on the roof for tubing/ventilation.

Rules

• 10 points more than a Vindicator, same stats, same options
• Smoke launchers, searchlight, one laser destroyer array (48", STR 9, AP 1, Ordnance 1, Twin-linked)
• Power Capacitor (Three fire modes. Regular, Capacitor Fire [if tank doesn't move, it becomes Ordnance 2, Twin-linked] and Overcharge Fire [if tank hasn't moved, owning player may select this mode. Weapon becomes Ordnance 3, Twin-linked but on a D6 roll of 1 will take 1 HP damage]

Use

Where a regular Vindicator is for killing troops, this one is for downing vehicles. AP 1 is +2 on the vehicle damage table, Ordnance allows you to roll two dice and pick the highest meaning you should penetrate. The best part is that you can increase the odds quite a bit if you don't move allowing you to cause a lot of damage. It does suffer damage like a regular Vindicator, so the storm bolter upgrade is a good "save" on weapon damage results. Straightforward so far, but there are some interesting bits. First, this is not a Relic tank meaning it is spammable (should you be that way inclined). Given the wording on the PDF, it can purchase Overcharged Engines (!) which gives us a 60" threat range with an Ordnance weapon - this is huge. Also, we can add Legacies. Give it Battle of Sarosh (discussed here) for the ultimate anti-Flyer weapon, Schism of Mars for Tank Hunter or even Icon of Glory for BS 5.