The chosen of 2 or 3 chaos gods as opposed to 1 or 4?

[Rheteric]

So yea...

We all know of chaos undivided and mainline chaos

And we further conclude tzeentch+nurgle and slaanesh+khorne are innately enemies moreso than the rest.

 

What I would like to know is:

 

1.if there are any entities(be them neverborn or from realspace) that have been blessed by 2 or 3 gods as opposed to 1 or 4?

 

If there is a documented case,can you please point me in the right direction

 

Idk about you guys but I think id prefer a blessing from 2 chaos gods as opposed to 1 or 4.so, bonus question:

 

2.If you could choose up to 4 blessings(1 from each god), which would you want to bless you?

 

I say Tzeentch and Slaanesh. Khorne and Nurgle can shove it :-p

 

Can't wait to see your thoughts and opinions!

 

EDIT:I would just like to say that I actually like Nurgle a lot, but to keep things kosher plotwise,I decided I prob shouldn't request a blessing from Tzeentch and Nurgle as they might smite me for being so foolishly brazen! :-X

[Forté]

The only one I can think of blessed by more than one is Abaddon.

 

The way I look at it. Is if you turn from a power that has blessed you, they are likely to strip everything from you in one go or turn you into a Spawn.

 

But I am a bit long in the tooth when it comes to Chaos.

[Slips]

But what about a champion/chosen that has garnered the attention of more than one but less than four Chaos Gods and they all decided to individually bless him/her/it? They didn't necessarily stop worshiping the god, they just never were so the idea of them getting turned into chaos spawn seems less likely, no?

 

Then again, the gods are indeed fickle and would probably do it out of spite or for the "lulz".

[Forté]

Then again, the gods are indeed fickle and would probably do it out of spite or for the "lulz".

Sounds about right ;)

 

But who knows eh. It's all fictional.

[incinerator950]

It's never written about, from multiple standpoints to just ignoring it.

 

I originally was going to make my Champion have multiple phases and marks with a beastiary of mounts, with different marks per game.

 

It's in the realm of obscurity as Undivided Princes, where as Demons are spawned from their gods or emotions.

[Tenebris]

The Sons of Horus have a history of being "Chaos Undecided" since they have given themselves over to many daemons but as their alliance shifted so the gods abandoned them, leaving the marines empty, powerless husks. 

 

So far Abaddon is unique for he has the Mark of all four gods. Be'Lakor is unique for he is an Undivided Daemon Prince. They are the exception, they are not the norm.

 

Two marks on a champion... I call it as bad fluff.

 

A mark is much much more than just a blessing, it is a resonance in the Warp, it is a dedication to a single deity, it is a harmonization of a soul according to the tenets of a Chaos God, it is to give your essence and soul to the service to one of the four powers and becoming a champion in turn. This are the metaphysics of Chaos, there are many variants inbetween but two marks is "impossible" for a "normal" Chaos Champion. It requires a very specific act of collaboration by two or more gods and such an act is unseen or unheard since the Horus Heresy. It is an "unwritten law" for the Chaos pantheon, they have done such acts in the form of Be'Lakor, Lorgar, Horus, Perturabo, Abaddon, but always, always it was a very careful move and in Aurelian by ADB we have learned that Khorne was still willing to break the covenant and test Lorgar himself, by sending a daemon to do it. 

 

"What if" is good but such questions as the one of this topic strike me as someone forgot to do his homework and read some proper background. It works but only in specific cases and for a very determinate goal of the Chaos Gods. 

[Emperors Immortals]

Well said Tenebris. The act of receiving a mark is not a commercial agreement, it seems people think an in universe character can simply perform infamous acts and then approach a god, or in turn simply be approached by one.

 

The reality is decades of constant immersion in the rawness of the warp, gradually repeating behaviors,thoughts and desires that in turn are the very substance of these gods. I see it less as being noticed by the powers and more a process of becoming them.

 

Perhaps the manifestation of a Mark is, on a more personal scale, the same process as a god gaining its consciousness. While the underlying psychic energy and human emotion was always there, at a certain point it "enfolds" into a new form - one with physical characteristics and power enough to guide our reality.

 

Just a lowly cultists thoughts.

[Rheteric]

All good answers gents.

I was under the impression Lorgar,Abaddon,and really any being consigned to chaos undivided would have all 4 blessings upon them.

Is this supposition inherently mistaken?

 

I've been looking into the lore and reading the novels for a while.honestly I prob have around 2500-3000 standard 'book' pages under my belt when combining sanctioned literature and 'wiki'-like sources...but in the scope of things that's barely anything lol.

 

I did google the question and couldn't find any answers though.the only things that come up are those blessed by 1 chaos god or all 4.I would have assumed that nurgle and khorne or slaanesh and tzeentch might have picked themselves a champion somewhere along the path to 42,000

[SonofTitan117]

In the Grey Knights codex the plague of madness is composed of both nurgle and tzeentch.

[Tenebris]

There are several examples of two Dark Gods working together to create one more misery with which afflict the mortals but in terms of promoting a champion each and everyone of the Chaos Gods is a jealous and envious master. Remember the problems that came with Be'Lakor and why he lost the favor of the Four.

 

Being "marked" is way way more complicated than just getting a badge and some extra muscles, brain cells, sensory organs or necrotic skin... being "marked" means being chosen by a deity because your soul is is alignment and harmony with the one of your chosen Chaos God, because you display with your deeds this unholy union of mind, body and soul with a Dark God. 

[Rheteric]

I hear ya

However, for example id think khorne and nurgle out of all 4 would have the mot cause to team up in an effort to indulge a single benefactor.even the ingerplay between their opposite aspects would work well

 

I.e. a power like plague-firr where the blessed being shoots a maroon flame from their mouth and the target turns to bloody ash from which nurgling-like berzerkers spawn . I know its not an excellen idea/example bit i think the dynamic between creation and destruction centered around undearh works really well in general

 

Or even slaanesh and tzeentch blessong someone who gets fits of ecstacy from draining their victim of essenrial knowledge etc.

 

To say the least, i can see why a few of ya dislike the idea fluffwise but i feel itd open some beautifully unholy doors both on the field and inn the fluff

 

Ps.i didnt know nurgle and tzeentch ever teamed up to make a disease! Thats awesome and i shall look into it

[Emperors Immortals]

One other thing to consider is the Gods would then share the results. They are not likely to want to do that as every act shared is another act not claimed by them individually.

 

I cannot see them cooperating beyond a very limited range, and even then only if enough mortals went along with it, because they be our thoughts etc.

[incinerator950]

If it keeps going that route I'm just going to go Loyalist finally.

[Kol Saresk]

I had made a topic about Chaos Marines being multimarked, but apparently the Powers That Be want me to talk about Chaos Space Marines in the Chaos Daemons subforum. Ask not why as I do not know. Any way, the opening post was:

 

Now, this is mostly a fluff discussion. And I encourage all to voice their views and why they have them. In fact, if there is one thing I would say is mandatory for posting other than following the forum rules, it would be strongly suggested that you explain your views so that other know where you are coming from. One liners unfortunately do so little to explain things. In fact, they usually tend to be frustrating and cause more confusion rather than removing it and I would like it if the goal of this topic was to remove confusion.

 

That unpleasantness aside, the topic seems obvious. Why would one ever receive Marks from more than one God? How would one go about doing this? Should this be a common trope that any Blue Collar Joe can achieve?

 

In my opinion, a Mark isn't just a symbol of allegiance to a specific power. The Mark is a two-way street. It is a symbol that the Warp Power is saying "This mortal is mine. I support them in all things and everything they do is to further my goals."

 

And so when two Powers Mark an individual, both aren't just saying this individual supports them, but they support them together, that they have come into alignment. And so on when it comes three, or even the rarer four Powers all coming into alignment.

 

Because that's the thing. A Mark is a symbol of ownership, that a specific power is claiming to own that mortal. So when two or more lay claim to the same individual, a choice must be made: either the powers will fight each other to see who deserves sole ownership(which either results in the death of the mortal, or a mono-Mark) or they come into alignment and share ownership. Which is a thing rare beyond degree since the Gods agree on very little.

 

Now, why do I have this view?

 

In the Night Lords trilogy, we are introduced to Uzas and Cyrion. Both have been Marked. In the case of Uzas, he was willingly Marked by entering a very Faustian deal of trading his soul for power. What he didn't realize is that for the strength to survive great wounds and becoming a melee monster, he not only traded his soul, but his sanity as well. Which meant that he only became a useful tool to Khorne as there was very little he could do that would garner the attention of the other Gods.

 

In the case of Cyrion, here we see a conniving, self-serving sadist who probably sold his own mother for the chance to save his skin. And that's if he didn't torture and kill her. But he has entered into no deals with the Gods. He doesn't even mention their names and talks very little about their existence. In fact, he almost seems to be a Puritan Night Lord with the exception of his being mutated into a psyker. And yet when Talos is talking to Avatars of the Gods, Slaanesh says that he has Marked Cyrion as his own. Because while Cyrion does not even acknowledge the Gods, his actions are supportive of Tzeentch and Slaanesh, but Slaanesh got there first.

 

Now, for individuals who are Marked by more than one God. To my knowledge, there are only three such individuals: Archaon in WHF(which excludes him from all further conversation) and then Horus and Abaddon.

 

Now, a case can be made that while Horus was fueled by all the Gods, he was not actually Marked by any of them. After all, his support only came from the fact he was meant to kill the Emperor and bring about an eventual decay to the universe that would see the Gods eventually take over. The Sacrificed King as the daemons and even some of the other Traitor Legions have begun to call him. He was supported until he fulfilled his purpose and then they withdrew that support, allowing him to be destroyed.

 

In the case of Abaddon, we have the "arch-heretic". I would say antichrist but modern understanding of the word is a tragic misuse of its original use and well, it offends some of my beliefs to misuse it as such. If one wishes to discuss it, my PM Inbox is open. But nonetheless, Abaddon is the big bad, the unstoppable evil. You might push him back here and there, but he just keeps coming back, stronger and better than before. Sort of like the Daleks. Just when you think you killed them all, somehow one survives and rebuilds. Well Abaddon is worse.

 

And that's the thing. All Four Gods have claimed ownership. True, as a mortal he could care less about that ownership because he has his sights on the material realm. Their support is a means to an end. But that support is what's so curious. All Four Chaos Gods have not only agreed to support Abaddon, but they have also agreed to not fight over him. And that is a big deal. He is so valuable to their goals that they don't even want to risk destroying him. And so, all four Mark become one, the Mark of Chaos Ascendant.

 

But of course, all of this rambling is just my opinion. So come brothers and sisters, let me hear your views. For there are many ways of thinking and the truth usually lies in a combination of them all. So come and let us all discover the truth behind the veils.

[Brother Amarel]

The Sons of Horus have a history of being "Chaos Undecided" since they have given themselves over to many daemons but as their alliance shifted so the gods abandoned them, leaving the marines empty, powerless husks. 

 

So far Abaddon is unique for he has the Mark of all four gods. Be'Lakor is unique for he is an Undivided Daemon Prince. They are the exception, they are not the norm.

 

Two marks on a champion... I call it as bad fluff.

 

A mark is much much more than just a blessing, it is a resonance in the Warp, it is a dedication to a single deity, it is a harmonization of a soul according to the tenets of a Chaos God, it is to give your essence and soul to the service to one of the four powers and becoming a champion in turn. This are the metaphysics of Chaos, there are many variants inbetween but two marks is "impossible" for a "normal" Chaos Champion. It requires a very specific act of collaboration by two or more gods and such an act is unseen or unheard since the Horus Heresy. It is an "unwritten law" for the Chaos pantheon, they have done such acts in the form of Be'Lakor, Lorgar, Horus, Perturabo, Abaddon, but always, always it was a very careful move and in Aurelian by ADB we have learned that Khorne was still willing to break the covenant and test Lorgar himself, by sending a daemon to do it. 

 

"What if" is good but such questions as the one of this topic strike me as someone forgot to do his homework and read some proper background. It works but only in specific cases and for a very determinate goal of the Chaos Gods. 

 

I don't 100% agree. The Daemons of a Chaos God are entirely bound to them and them alone, but many races that choose to worship the Chaos Gods are as fickle by nature as the Gods themselves. A Mark of a God is a symbol that someone/thing has come to the awareness of that God, not that that person/being has dedicated their whole life to that God.

 

Consider the idea of a blood-thirsty Space Marine Captain screaming out at anything that might be listening for more power to so as they might continue to kill - on a whim Khorne might bless him. The Captain might not even realise at first that it is Khorne, and not the Emperor, that has given him new powers. Once it is discovered what has happened, the Captain, angry at Khorne's intervention but knowing that his path is now no longer with his Chapter, might turn himself to Slaanesh. Slaanesh in turn, accepting this wonderful chance to annoy another God and entering into a battle for the Captain with Khorne. 

 

Could this then be expanded to a whole Chapter or colony or planet? I think we're encouraged to think so. After the whole point of Chaos is that it's Chaos. If you want autocratic simplicity in how things work, that's the Emperor's schtick.

[Kol Saresk]

However, one thing we should take from the SoH is that just switching from one god to another can have its consequences. The XVI were second to the XVII in terms of Possessed and as a Legion(mostly) kept swotching from God to God. And every time they did, the Possessed suffered the most obviously by dying or being left in a severely weakened state. But it is possible.

[Legatus]

It is conceivable for two Chaos Gods supporting the same individual, in cases where both Gods have allied to work for a common goal. But such alliances will only be short lived, and the minion will meet an end as a spawn before long. Abaddon is supported by all four Gods because all four share the agenda to bring down the Emperor. Other than that, they are at constant war with each other. There are temprary alliances, but they are, well, temporary.

 

In general, the desires of the Gods are almost diametrically opposed, so none of them would have an interest to support the Champion of one of the others.

 

Khorne and Slaanesh hate each other.

 

Tzeentch and Nurgle hate each other.

 

Khorne and Nurgle? Perhaps if the Champion of Khorne would be content slaughtering only half of a cities pouplation, then all those corpses rotting in the streets would be a great way to spread disease. But if the Champion is marked by Khorne, then killing only half of the population is not negotiable. Either one or both of the Gods would not get what he wants out of this Champion.

 

Nurgle and Slaanesh? Nurgle's deseases will numb the Champion's senses, so how would be be able to experience more and more etreme sensations, with a bloated body and limbs rotting off?

 

Khorne and Tzeentch? Khorne hates sorcery. And Tzeentch will get no pawns to play with if a Champion of Khorne proceeds to depopulate the galaxy.

 

Tzeentch and Slaanesh? Now this might be a more likely match. Perhaps one could consider how Champions of Slaanesh are generally acting in their own self interest, while Tzeentch desires pawns to control. Or how continuing debauchery might impede the Champions pursuit of ancient hidden secrets of the universe. Uncovering an ancient tomb is not the most sensational of experiences. But there is not as much immediate opposition of agendas in this case..

[spafe]

Khorne and Nurgle? Perhaps if the Champion of Khorne would be content slaughtering only half of a cities pouplation, then all those corpses rotting in the streets would be a great way to spread disease. But if the Champion is marked by Khorne, then killing only half of the population is not negotiable. Either one or both of the Gods would not get what he wants out of this Champion.

 

Nurgle and Slaanesh? Nurgle's deseases will numb the Champion's senses, so how would be be able to experience more and more etreme sensations, with a bloated body and limbs rotting off?

 

Khorne and Tzeentch? Khorne hates sorcery. And Tzeentch will get no pawns to play with if a Champion of Khorne proceeds to depopulate the galaxy.

 

Tzeentch and Slaanesh? Now this might be a more likely match. Perhaps one could consider how Champions of Slaanesh are generally acting in their own self interest, while Tzeentch desires pawns to control. Or how continuing debauchery might impede the Champions pursuit of ancient hidden secrets of the universe. Uncovering an ancient tomb is not the most sensational of experiences. But there is not as much immediate opposition of agendas in this case..

 

Can I jsut put forward some counter points here, since your projecting your view into background...

 

Khorne and nurgle... well if your beast of death can live through mortal wounds to continue to take skulls for you... might be worth considering from khornes point of view... and remember, nurgle is about decay, dieseses etc... well that slaughtered city is gonna have to decay afterwards isnt it...? (this one is a bit of a stretch off hand but I'm sure I could find more plausible stuff without too much trouble)

 

Nurgle and slanesh... I'm sorry, nurgle is bloated? that sounds very definitive for a being of ever changing fluctuating madness such as a warp entity... what about an emacilated(sp?) champion who has had his stomach rotted through so he can never eat, kept alive by warp energies but forever starving, this eternal plague on his senses that he can never be sated, always hungry, but always barely alive due to lack of sustenance sounds like a perfect plaything for nurgle while slanesh is happy with this constant source of sensory overload in the hunger he feels (not all slaneshes sensory overloads are direct pain/pleasure)

 

Khorne and tzeentch...the most difficult, but not impossible. blood sacrifices, blood magicians and mass symbolic killings will please khorne and will power magic. Not nessecarily a individual, but stereo typical aztecs taking to the extreme could be a society that values tzeentch in priests and its fortune telling, while worshipping khorne with their scarifices and warrior culture...

 

And you lay out some ideas for slanesh and tzeentch yourself.

 

Note, I'm not trying to attack you, jsut you happened to lay the arguement against it out in an easy to reverse way, and I was playing devils advocate as I am aware that op is asking for documented cases, but the prinicpal behind it is sound I think. I dont think you can dismiss anything out of hand so black and white as this when it involves chaos and the fickle natured gods...

[Loesh]

Popping my head in really quick: Nurgles bloated, and unlike the other Warp Gods he is the most 'stagnate' as per his portfolio so his depiction is much more consistent then the other three. In fact, Great Unclean ones and Nurglings are just facsimiles of their god.

[spafe]

Sorry, I meant that being a follower of nurgle... rather than nurgle himself. You dont have to be bloated to be a follower of nurgle (I believe)

[Kol Saresk]

Since many diseases actually cause the body to waste away rather than bloat, I'd be surprised if that was the case.

 

I think I might have read it in a WHF but they put it very poetically. Essentially, the relationship between Khorne and Nurgle is symbiotic. Followers of Khorne creates death, and this feeds Nurgle in his aspect of death. In turn, followers of Nurgle shed blood while fighting, which feeds Khorne.

[the jeske]

However, one thing we should take from the SoH is that just switching from one god to another can have its consequences. The XVI were second to the XVII in terms of Possessed and as a Legion(mostly) kept swotching from God to God. And every time they did, the Possessed suffered the most obviously by dying or being left in a severely weakened state. But it is possible.

There is a story about Khârn where he is storming a slanesh planet alongside some zerkers. And all but him get turned to slanesh using a super powerful artefact. The only thing that "saves" Khârn is that the demon in the artefact over does it and keeps showing Khârn more and more stuff he may want, and in the end Khârn comes to the conclusion that kill kill kill is all he wants and he already has it with khorn.

 

 

In history of w40k, being blessed by multiple gods did happen in fluff a few times . Even someone non marked can do it as long as proper rituals are performed or the person asking for the blessing is in some way linked/of interest to the gods. Being multi marked happened twice with horus and abadon.

 

 

 

As the plague thing goes. Anyone can get it. Thing with marked people is that their"souls" are already claimed, so there is nothing to change in to a plaguebearer. A marked dude getting the flu will at worse[for nurgle dudes] die in pain and best will get reanimated, but what we will get is a zombi sm not a plague marine+ .

[Legatus]

Actually, while goind through some older stuff, I found this in the 2nd Edition Codex Chaos:

 

"The Marks of Chaos

(...)

To represent the gifts bestowed on a Chaos Champion you are allowed to buy marks of Chaos for the Chaos Space Marine characters in your army, for the points cost indicated in the army list. With the exception of a Chaos Lord, each model is only allowed one Mark of Chaos.

Chaos Lords can have one or more Marks of Chaos, and even bear the Marks of all four Chaos Gods if desired. Horus is the most infamous example of such a Chaos Lord, being favoured by all four of the Chaos Gods at one time or another."

- 2nd Edition Codex Chaos, p. 27

 

So at one point it was deemed acceptable for a mighty Campion of Chaos to be blessed by multiple gods. The rules since 3rd Edition no longer allow this, but I have not yet found a lore passage explaining whether such a thing is theoretically possible or not (other than Abaddon).

 

 

Nurgle and slanesh... I'm sorry, nurgle is bloated? that sounds very definitive for a being of ever changing fluctuating madness such as a warp entity...

 

 

I suppose I am influenced in part by the rules for the Mark of Nurgle traditionally increasing the resistance of the bearer. I think even an emaciated walking corpse Champion of Nurgle would feel less sensations than a normal person.

 

 

There is a story about Khârn where he is storming a slanesh planet alongside some zerkers. And all but him get turned to slanesh using a super powerful artefact.

 

 

Though I think in that case the implication was that the Marines in question switched from one god to another, not that they were suddenly imbued with the power of both.

 

And then Khârn killed everyone.

[Kol Saresk]

Except besides the price, the two most obvious examples are not just individuals who went around and got a Mark from each God, they were individuals that all four Gods decided to unanimously support because their goal(s) would help all four Gods achieve power. In the case of Abaddon, this was rendered into the Mark of Chaos Ascendant.

 

So, it seems this was always meant to be a rare thing, but probably to different point costs, there probably more than a few running around with something as simple as "I killed this planet for Khorne", "I stole this tome for Tzeentch", "I poisoned this world's medical supplies" and "I smoked this herb for Slaanesh! It gave me a wild trip during battle man!"

[Brother Ambroz]

Where is that story about Khârn? That sounds like an interesting read.