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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

Posted
Posted
I look forward to reading the Battrep. I have always found DG a particularly hard opponent to beat as their durability normally more than counters our increased killing power. Still, Knights plus BAs should have the firepower and CC ability to force damage through on even the most disgustingly resilient of units.
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Indefragable Venerable Brother

Indefragable

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Got a game in vs DeathWatch. 1500pts (smaller than my usual games).

 

Both of us were shaking off the dust, so interesting armies and matchups. Not going to do a full BR since I don't think it's that useful, but a couple things of note:

 

-DW Kill Teams with just a few storm shields in them are redonkulously resilient. Bounce small arms off the 2+ Termies and anything with good AP off the SS. I really wish Sanguinary Guard had a native invuln...

 

-...because hot diddly damn is the Standard of Sacrifice worth it. Single handedly kept me in the game. I must have saved 20W throughout four turns.

 

-this was the first game in a LOOOONG time that Mephiston felt like Mephiston. Between being in cover (effective 1+ save) and is 5+++, he shrugged off:

 

  • 64 bolter shots (using Special Issue Ammunition)
  • 4 melta shots
  • 3 power fist hits
  • 4 power sword hits
  • 20 chainsword hits

 

He finished the game with 2W slicing 3 DW Bikers off an objective.

 

-to continue the theme, I ran a Captain Smash with the Gift of Foresight trait. 5+++ re-rolling 1's. He also finished the game with 2W.

 

So....alot of the above can be contributed to rolling well, but the common denominator is the 5+++ FNP. It simply can't ever be overemphasized. As the game evolves and our bite is neutered more and more, I think we are going to need to increasing ways to up our resiliency.

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Kaese Veteran

Kaese

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So....alot of the above can be contributed to rolling well, but the common denominator is the 5+++ FNP. It simply can't ever be overemphasized. As the game evolves and our bite is neutered more and more, I think we are going to need to increasing ways to up our resiliency.

I completely agree 5+++ makes a unit really durable. I play mostly with a friend that fields either death guard or nurgle demons, and I’m always amazed how many wounds per game he manages to shrug off. Last game against demons it took me ages to grind through 70+ plague bearers with 15 death company buffed with dante and sanquinor.

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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

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So....alot of the above can be contributed to rolling well, but the common denominator is the 5+++ FNP. It simply can't ever be overemphasized. As the game evolves and our bite is neutered more and more, I think we are going to need to increasing ways to up our resiliency.

I completely agree 5+++ makes a unit really durable. I play mostly with a friend that fields either death guard or nurgle demons, and I’m always amazed how many wounds per game he manages to shrug off. Last game against demons it took me ages to grind through 70+ plague bearers with 15 death company buffed with dante and sanquinor.

 

I am starting to think it is worth running a Sanguinary Novitiate/Priest with Jump Pack (index) just to keep characters in the fight. Mephy and Captain Smash are pretty durable but often get ground down leading the charge. A Priest can keep them in the fight for much longer. The HQ version also has the advantage of the +1S bubble which can come in handy. Also works well if you are running expensive multi-wound squads like Inceptors or Sanguinary Guard as you can patch up the wounded or even resurrect whole models at a pinch.

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Aothaine Venerable Brother

Aothaine

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I am starting to think it is worth running a Sanguinary Novitiate/Priest with Jump Pack (index) just to keep characters in the fight. Mephy and Captain Smash are pretty durable but often get ground down leading the charge. A Priest can keep them in the fight for much longer. The HQ version also has the advantage of the +1S bubble which can come in handy. Also works well if you are running expensive multi-wound squads like Inceptors or Sanguinary Guard as you can patch up the wounded or even resurrect whole models at a pinch.

 

 

I just wish it wasn't an index only option. I know they are going to phase out the indexes eventually. It is a real shame.

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BluejayJunior Veteran

BluejayJunior

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My battle report is posted here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350676-bluejayjuniors-seraphim-knights-blog/?p=5175744

 

This was my first time writing a battle report, so any tips you have for taking notes and writing are greatly appreciated. 

Edited by BluejayJunior
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CaptainHelion Veteran

CaptainHelion

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Posted

 

So....alot of the above can be contributed to rolling well, but the common denominator is the 5+++ FNP. It simply can't ever be overemphasized. As the game evolves and our bite is neutered more and more, I think we are going to need to increasing ways to up our resiliency.

I completely agree 5+++ makes a unit really durable. I play mostly with a friend that fields either death guard or nurgle demons, and I’m always amazed how many wounds per game he manages to shrug off. Last game against demons it took me ages to grind through 70+ plague bearers with 15 death company buffed with dante and sanquinor.

 

 

I've found that I only ever take the Foresight warlord trait on a Captain who I can give DVoS to, for this very reason. 6s rerolling 1s isn't great, but on 5s he survives. 

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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

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Do you still reroll 1s with foresight and DVoS combined?

Yup.

 

 

I am starting to think it is worth running a Sanguinary Novitiate/Priest with Jump Pack (index) just to keep characters in the fight.

 

I just wish it wasn't an index only option. I know they are going to phase out the indexes eventually. It is a real shame.

 

Me too. :sad.: At least I already have a painted Priest with JP so it's not like I'll be building a model with a limited shelf life. I will just be using him for as long as possible (which may be until 9th edition comes along).

Edited by Karhedronuk
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Aothaine Venerable Brother

Aothaine

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Me too. :sad.: At least I already have a painted Priest with JP so it's not like I'll be building a model with a limited shelf life. I will just be using him for as long as possible (which may be until 9th edition comes along).

 

 

Didn't GW say 8th is the last edition and their just using rules adjustments from now on?

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Indefragable Venerable Brother

Indefragable

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Me too. :sad.: At least I already have a painted Priest with JP so it's not like I'll be building a model with a limited shelf life. I will just be using him for as long as possible (which may be until 9th edition comes along).

 

 

Didn't GW say 8th is the last edition and their just using rules adjustments from now on?

 

 

Did they?  I don't remember them saying that, though I can see them saying that.

 

Honestly, I kinda have a feeling it will be the opposite: 2020 will see 9th Ed already. 8th is almost like the test edition since the changes from 7th to 8th have been some of the most dramatic in the history of the game so far.

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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Posted (edited)

Quick question: how would you compare a squad of 3 Aggressors with the assault-canon Razorback? Not including transport capability of the Razor.

 

 

Well lets see. An Assault cannon Razorback costs almost exactly as much as three Bolter Aggressors so that's perfect for a comparison.

  • Unless you shoot against Sv2+ the damage output of the Aggressors is always higher even if they don't double-shoot (and against Sv2+ they do more damage when double shooting as well). One point for Aggressors.
    • 1:0 for Aggressors
  • They do have 6" less range but they can advance&shoot without penalties while the Razorback can't even move&shoot without penalty so another point for the Aggressors I'd say.
    • 2:0 for Aggressors
  • It's 6 T5 Sv3+ wounds vs 10 T7 Sv3+ wounds. On the first glance the AC Razorback wins here, however the 6 Aggressor wounds are split into 3x2 so any damage of 3 or more is wasted against them and if they happen to have only one wound left any damage of 2 or more is wasted against them unit until that model died. I think I want to go for a tie here. They are less resilient against anti-infantry weapons like Heavy Bolter and Assault Cannons, but they are more resilient against anti-tank weapons and weapons that do 1d3 damage instead of flat 2.
    • 3:1 for Agressors
  • Army composition/target saturation. If your army has lots of tanks and flyer, then a Razorback probably won't have to face as much anti-tank coming in its direction. Especially not if you have tanks with scarier weaponry like Lascannons around. However if you have barely any other tanks and such in your army a Razorback will be dead very quickly. On the other hand Aggressors are still "just" infantry which you will always have lots of in your list usually so target saturation shouldn't be a problem for them. It's also important to note if you don't have any tanks and such in your list at all your opponent paid a lot of points for weapons that are suboptimal against your list. Since that's a very situational I won't give any a point. Just something to consider when you build your list and also depending on your local meta.
  • Last but not least Aggressors help filling Elite slots in detachments (as if that was ever a problem lol), but also require open elite slots (that one is more of a problem) while Razorbacks are dedicated Transports which only need you to have an equal amount of non-dedicated transport units in your list.
  • Aggressors aren't the best melee unit but they aren't as helpless as a Razorback and with some luck their powerfists can do a LOT of damage.
    • 4:1 for Aggressors
  • Aggressors are infantry so they can benefit from a bunch of different buffs like Apothecaries reviving them, Standard of Sacrifice making them more durable, Ancients letting them shoot when they die, easier to gain cover bonus
    • 5:1 for Aggressors
  • Razorbacks are big metal boxes which can help to block line of sight just like Rhinos
    • 5:2 for Aggressors

 

All in all I'd say if you are only really interested in the Razorback for the Assault Cannons and don't want to use its Transport capacity I'd go for the Bolter Aggressors instead. Especially if you don't have many other tanks or flyers in your list to take off the heat of your Razorback.

 

EDIT: I've never really thought about it or made that direct comparison so I'm actually surprised at how much better Bolter Aggressors seem to be compared to AssBacks.

Edited by sfPanzer
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Indefragable Venerable Brother

Indefragable

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Just got slaughtered by some Space wolves boys. I didn't even get a second turn. Having to wait until turn 2 for deepstrike really got me. I think I need to either hide everything at the begining now or just forget deep striking entirely.

 

Oh man. Sorry to hear about that. What were both of your lists and the mission?

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