Jump to content

Chaos corrupts...or does it?


Rheteric

Recommended Posts

If this question has already been asked, I apologize and could not find it when I searched the forums on the site(if it is the case that I'm repeating this, please direct me towards the original thread)

So I was wondering, after the many enjoyably enlightening convos and debates I have partook in on this site...

Is there anybody,anything, or any race that...

A.canNOT be corrupted by chaos?
and
B.canNOT be possessed by a daemon of some sort?

I've heard of even machine spirits(and consequentially their 'bodies') being corrupted or possessed. Everything from artifacts to the most stalwart marines(save for grey knights)and even tyranids being unable to escape or stave off its seemingly omnipotent grasp. Some insight on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
And please...when I say 'anything' I don't exactly have coffee makers in mind lol.
Also,I would just like to throw this out there...I heard Nurgle's most unholy taint even reaches animals(and NOT just in the form of his diseases...I wonder if it can reach plants.I mean hell,if machines have spirits then I'm sure some plants do...but that's a topic and/or a completely ignorant blaspheme against the omnissiah for another day haha)

 

EDIT:

I have added these questions after reading the replies(i apologize for having more questions than answers lol).

Also, please note that;although 3 of the 4 questions MIGHT seem very Xenos-oriented, my intentions are to really dig into Chaos and its potential as opposed to exploring ANY facet of a xenos race beyond theyre resistance to Chaos as a whole. so PLEASE stay on topic when answering(i understand the OP itself is quite loose, but we're all well aware that the B+C is meant to spread the glory of the Ruinous Powers and the Emperor )

:-D

 

 

1. If tyranids are just a "Shadow" in the warp...how can they be corrupted?(the question is meant to indulge upon theory as opposed to body chemistry lol)

 

2.If a mentally high level Tyranid is corrupted (i.e a hive-queen or whatever runs the Leviathan or Behemoth etcetc.) will the Tyranids   under directly under/bound to the superior Tyranid fall into chaos as well, or simply detatch from the hive-mind(and attack the corrupted high-level tyranid?)?

 

3. aside from Grey Knights, are well trained Relictors MUCH less susceptible to Corruption than other Astartes?

 

4.Is there ANY documented case of an Eldar being corrupted, chosen, or claimed by a Chaos god other than Slaanesh(who?)?

 

Thank you all in advance for contributing and making this thread as awesome as i know it can potentially be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say that almost anything has potential to be tainted. It would more depend on whether it would interest each particular patron of Chaos.

 

For example, Orks and their warlike nature would interest Khorne but I couldn't imagine Tzeentch or to a lesser degree, Slaanesh giving them a second look.

 

It's general knowledge that Eldar are of interest to Slaanesh. But they are aware of such dangers.

 

Basically, humans are still the youngsters who still have strong emotions and obsessions so make for the easiest and most entertaining subjects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i will say this...

just because the tau are psyichically dull, doesnt make them immune to corruption due to the fact they still have innate psychic ability based upon merely their sentience, if nothing else(or am i wrong?). Also, im ALMOST positive that Nurgle's toaint upon animals is bred as a consequence of all living things to have a survival instinct. that theory(or fact, really) in itself is amazing to reflect upon when theorizing about what Nurgle's(and thus other RP's) touch can and cant reach.

Necrons are incorruptable to my knowledge because theyre souls are bound to Realspace thanks to the whole ceremony involving the c'tan that got them trapped in necrodermis(or rather, that made them become Necrodermis lol) to begin with, no?

 

Keep it comin' guys! and please reread the original post(bottom, where it says "EDIT:") if ya havent already.

 

ps.thats the first and last time im gonna reference the fact i Edited the original post

pss.i just got a new phone and its my first phone thats 100% touchscreen/no keyboard so please cut me some slack on the typos for a little while as i adapt :-X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Way back when the Grey Knights were the Daemon Hunters(I'm talking like beginning of 4th Edition way back when), there was a scenario on GW's website that had the Grey Knights hunting down an Ethereal, who was possessed. And if I recall correctly, Farsight's sword that grants him extended life is a Chaos weapon. So even the Tau, the least psychic race are still corruptible by Chaos. It will probably take extreme amounts of effort and subtlety on the part of the daemon, but it can be done.

 

As for Necrons, it is unknown. They have gone through great effort to separate themselves from the warp, but in the Word Bearers series, Marduk was able to steal a Necron artifact and his tech-priest was able to bend it to their will. So while it is unknown if that was done by corruption or not, the point should be mentioned that when they first used it, it cut off all connection to the warp. But over time, the Word Bearers were able to reestablish enough of a connection that their possessed could be possessed and they could summon daemons. So the possibility of even Necrons(or at least Necron tech) being corrupted is definitely there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Tyranid's Shadow of the Warp, I'd think that the Hive Mind seems to be about as powerful as the Ruinous Powers, but I think Chaos is more focused on corrupting humanity/Eldar to really try putting up a fight against the Tyranid. I think that Tyranid could be corrupted by Chaos, but I think it would probably take a lot of power and time on their part to possess a Tyranid creature with a strong warp presence. If they did, I think a demon could potentially fool the lesser creatures to its will but since they're mostly mindless I don't think the demon would have much purpose with them unless it had an agenda to attack/disrupt the Hive Mind from killing more of humanity... Kind of like a predator protecting its kill from another predator. Eventually Chaos would seem to have the need to defend their food/power source, because if humanity dies, they do too because they'll have no one to believe in/fear them since it takes those emotions to keep them alive. But if Chaos get's what it wants and has the Warp take over real space, then the Tyranids could easily be destroyed since the Chaos Gods could make real space literally bend to their will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say that almost anything has potential to be tainted. It would more depend on whether it would interest each particular patron of Chaos.

 

For example, Orks and their warlike nature would interest Khorne but I couldn't imagine Tzeentch or to a lesser degree, Slaanesh giving them a second look.

 

It's general knowledge that Eldar are of interest to Slaanesh. But they are aware of such dangers.

 

Basically, humans are still the youngsters who still have strong emotions and obsessions so make for the easiest and most entertaining subjects.

 

Karhedros was actually a Dark Eldar who was corrupted by Slaanesh, which worked out as well as you'd expect when he realized Chaos favored race is humanity and the only pact Slaanesh would make with an Eldar was 'I eat your soul and you die.' then to be promptly nommed with all of his followers.

 

A unknown Grey Knight was also corrupted by Slaanesh upon entering his/her/it's palace. So yeah, Chaos can corrupt almost anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Way back when the Grey Knights were the Daemon Hunters(I'm talking like beginning of 4th Edition way back when), there was a scenario on GW's website that had the Grey Knights hunting down an Ethereal, who was possessed. And if I recall correctly, Farsight's sword that grants him extended life is a Chaos weapon. So even the Tau, the least psychic race are still corruptible by Chaos. It will probably take extreme amounts of effort and subtlety on the part of the daemon, but it can be done.

That scenario was glossed over as not cannon fluff. Tau are meant to be Warp weak so possession is unlikely but the Tau Empire has lots of other races like the Nisscar that of corrupted would most likely corrupt I'd imagine a Daemon Weapon would eventually taint a tau if it wasn't for there need to upgrade so often.

As for the Dawn blade the Farsight Enclave Subcodex states:

It flickers with unknown energy and when he swings it, sharp enough to cut through rock, it cuts a swathe easily through most enemies and armoured vehicles. Unknown to its wielder its blade is made from chronophagic alloys which add a slain foe's remaining natural lifespan to that of its owners. This is the secret of Farsight's remarkable longevity, which has spanned to over three centuries.

So I'd say that its not Daemonic or he would clearly be possessed after three centuries.

 

Only known safe creatures that can't be corrupted are Pariahs. Nids, Tau and Necrons seems to be most resistant by design.

 

A unknown Grey Knight was also corrupted by Slaanesh upon entering his/her/it's palace. So yeah, Chaos can corrupt almost anything.

I thought it was stated in cannon that Grey Knights are the only chapter never to have a Marine corrupted by Chaos?

What source states of a Slaanesh corrupted Grey Knight? Personal interest not a challenge of knowledge ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one thing to remember about canon is that in 40K, much of it is personal bias of the narrator. That's why the Failbaddon Meme exists even though only three or so of the Black Crusades were actually beaten back while the remainder just "left" and were titled as Imperial victories. Case in point, the First Black Crusade.

 

So the Grey Knights are "incorruptible" because that is how they see themselves. It is a similar situation with the Sisters of Battle who see themselves as incorruptible, even though we have a beautiful example of corrupted Sisters right in the GK Codex.

 

That is also why saying "he'd have to be possessed after three centuries" is an iffy statement. Fulgrim only became possessed when he let the daemon take over in the hopes it would kill him as aronement for decapitating Ferrus. Meanwhile you have Abaddon who has been running around with Drach'nyen for a little over ten thousand years, give or take warp flux, and he still hasn't been possessed even though Drach'nyen is supposed to be one of the most powerful daemon weapons around. It can literally bend reality.

 

Willpower is a valuable currency in the warp. But it is fickle. And it is also what determines the rate of corruption. That's why no one flipped crap about a Pariah being daemonically possessed in Nemesis, but rather its writing style. That is because they do have a connection to the warp. It is just that their connection repulses the warp, rather than attracting it.

 

And as you pointed out, yes the Tau have a weaker connection to the warp. But a connection is a connection, and with the warp, it is always a two-way street.

 

And it is chronophagic, not Chaos tainted. Huh. But wasn't there something about the eldar freaking out about him having the sword, or am I misremembering that? I personally don't own the Tau Codex and Farsight supplement so y knowledge of those is secondhand at best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it was stated in cannon that Grey Knights are the only chapter never to have a Marine corrupted by Chaos?

What source states of a Slaanesh corrupted Grey Knight? Personal interest not a challenge of knowledge msn-wink.gif

6th edition of Chaos Daemons details a silver armored knight of Adeptus Astartes who journeys to the palace of Slaanesh, ultimately coming to it's center he finds she/he/it has taken on the form of pure innocence and taken a knee.

Some people have posited that it's Kaldor Draigo, but it's much more likely to me it was Epitmethus given over to serve as her vessel, though for all we know it could be a random interceptor. There's the possibility that it's some other Astartes who for some odd reason has no chapter colors, but considering that Slaanesh has corrupted a Sister of Battle...perhaps even several Sisters of Battle....I wouldn't be shocked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 

So I'd say that its not Daemonic or he would clearly be possessed after three centuries.

 

Only known safe creatures that can't be corrupted are Pariahs. Nids, Tau and Necrons seems to be most resistant by design.

 

This is a pariah who was "bonded" with a demon.  He was a pretty scary dude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the Grey Knights are "incorruptible" because that is how they see themselves. It is a similar situation with the Sisters of Battle who see themselves as incorruptible, even though we have a beautiful example of corrupted Sisters right in the GK Codex.

Where?

 

The two armies that have always claimed to be incorruptible are the Sisters and the Grey Knights. Both claim that not a single member of each group has fallen to Chaos.

 

The Grey Knights have Alaric in the Black Library and the Unknown Grey Knight in the previous codex, and the Sisters have Miriael Sabathiel in the third party card game. How canon you want to call those "fluff-breaking" examples is up to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Actually, Alaric hasn't been corrupted. True, he pitted Chaos champions against other Chaos champions as a matter of survival, but he never did actually partake of the Chaos powers.

 

And again, much of Codex fluff is bias. That is part of the rule and it is something we should all be used to and to deny that fact is to choose to be ignorant. Anything published is canon until explicitly overwritten. Alaric and the Unknown Grey Knight are still canon because even in the last Codex, the Grey Knights were "incorruptible", not because they actually are, but because that is how they see themselves.

 

And the same goes with the Sisters of Battle. They see themselves as incorruptible, but as long as Miriel exists, that is obviously not the case.

 

If we were to go a different faction, let us look at the Night Lords. As a general rule, they believe themselves to be pure. After all, their gene-seed is one of the purest amongst the Legions. Even when they make deals with the Chaos powers, they believe they are the ones in charge and that they hold the power. Are you going to tell me that Uzas and Cyrion are "fluff-breaking" because they smash that mould because both are slaves to the respective powers that have touched them? Of course.

 

But then we go back to the "BL isn't canon" argument which is complete and total garbage and we all know this. BL is equal to Forgeworld and Forgeworld is equal to Games Workshop. That is the Holy trinity of the background. To deny one just because it makes us feel icky is to deny all three and if we do not, then we have no ground to stand on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rules and half the background exists just to sell plastic, nothing is solid and set in stone despite how much is being rehashed in the last three decades. A GW codex writer only has a little more precedence than a BL or FW one though only because the selling of the rulebooks takes precedence until GW decides they don't want something because they didn't or can't make a model for it.

 

40K is about mirky convolution because the plot is a narrative background told mostly on analysis, lies, and hearsay. What Khayon says in 32k probably will hold no meaning at the end of the 41st mill just like Cain's writings are probably off from who the imaginitive character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I've seen, there's evidence that Chaos can only corrupt you if you, on some level, give in. Now, Chaos is very good at attacking the flaws in someone's psyche - it's had forever to practice, after all - but it really comes down to a psychic conflict between Chaos and its intended victim. Anyone can fall, and anyone could resist. That land raider whose machine spirit is beloved by, and in turn values and respects, its Space Marine crew? Might resist Chaos indefinitely. A Tau fire warrior consumed by bitterness and hate, rejected by his companions? He'll accept Chaos in an instant and not understand what's happening until it's too late.

 

What the Grey Knights do to become "immune" to Chaos is extensive brainwashing that irons out the flaws in their psyche. Their minds are like smooth grey orbs, with no - or nearly no - ambitions, lusts, fears, or hatreds for Chaos to gain purchase on. The psychic rituals, meditations, and hexagrammatical inscriptions don't hurt any, either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is extremely debatable considering the company he keeps and the tools he uses.

 

He's not a mutant. He's not a daemon prince. He's not possessed or insane. Whether you agree with his actions or not, he still seems to be the one making the choices, not a daemonic master. Whether he's wise is up for debate. Whether he's corrupt, in the sense of abusing his power, is also up for debate. However, I think it's pretty clear that in the sense that Chaos does things to a person, turning him into a monstrous and enslaved parody of himself, Eisenhorn is not corrupted by Chaos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Insane is relative. This is a man who studies forbidden material. This is a man who trucks with daemons. This was a mano who gave the disembodied mind of a traitor a mechanical body. Also, he is currently partnering with an Alpha Legionnaire. You know, those guys who shout "For the Emperor!" as they kill loyal Imperial subjects while fighting alongside daemons and other Traitors?

 

Eisenhorn falls in the same camp as the Relictors. He may think he fights for the Emperor, but he left that team long ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Fire Warrior novelization had a Tau who was corrupted by Khorne. And I'd argue that Alaric was as well, what with the Mark of Khorne on his chest, fighting like a berserker to take down his nemesis at the finale, and his "I am no longer a Grey Knight" speech to the radical inquisitor.

 

As far as the tyranids go, Barban Falk was using one of their vessels that had been "enhanced" by the Four to haul his Titans around in Storm of Iron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Insane is relative. This is a man who studies forbidden material. This is a man who trucks with daemons. This was a mano who gave the disembodied mind of a traitor a mechanical body. Also, he is currently partnering with an Alpha Legionnaire. You know, those guys who shout "For the Emperor!" as they kill loyal Imperial subjects while fighting alongside daemons and other Traitors?

 

Eisenhorn falls in the same camp as the Relictors. He may think he fights for the Emperor, but he left that team long ago.

 

First of all, let's leave aside the stuff that's happening in the newest book. We can't really know what's going on, and it's obvious that lots of people are trying to manipulate Bequin's opinions, including via elaborate hoaxes and false flag action.

 

Secondly... well, the question now becomes, what's your definition of Chaotic corruption? I don't think that mere recklessness, ruthlessness, stupidity, or evil really qualifies. Everything that Eisenhorn has done can certainly be seen as any of those things if you disagree with them, but does that make it Chaotic corruption?

 

Personally, I like to take on a stricter interpretation of Chaotic corruption. When you grow horns, get possessed by a daemon, and give up your freedom of choice for power, that's Chaotic corruption. When you enter the realm of actions and positions that the authorities of the Imperium view as outlawed, well, that's not necessarily Chaos. That's just people making - or botching - difficult choices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.