Emerging Threat -- Deep-Striking Wraith Guard with D-Scythes

[L30n1d4s]

Dark Eldar are not officially out yet, but a very consistent rumor is that their Webway Portal wargear will now allow the bearer and his unit the ability to Deep Strike without scattering.

 

Since Dark Eldar and Eldar are Battle Brothers, that means that a DE Independent Character with a Webway Portal could attach to a full 10 man squad of Wraithguard equipped with D-Scythes and then DS in from Reserves exactly where they want, with no scatter.

 

I am sure I don't need to explain to anyone what the possibility of 10 x S4 AP2 Template weapons with Distort rule (auto-wound and ID on a roll of 6 to Wound) can do to pretty much any target out there. This is even a high threat to vehicles, since Templates auto-hit and the Distort rule also means they also auto-penetrate on a roll of 6 for armor penetration.

 

My question is, if this rumor pans out, what defense can be made against this type of attack? The best thing I can think of off hand is a strong shooting unit, such as Centurions or DA Black Knights or a Devastator Squad with Plasma Cannons, attached to Coteaz and placed in an ideal location to counter DSing... with Coteaz's "I've been Waiting for You" rule, you get a free round of shooting at every unit that comes in from reserve within 12" of his and within his LOS.... outside of that combo, I am not sure what else can be done, as most of the armies here on Bolter and Chainsword have very limited access to the Interceptor rule outside of Quad-guns/Icarus Lascannons on Fortifications (and these are not great against Deep Striking Wraith Guard, since they have Skyfire and so must snapshot against non-flyers/skimmers).

 

Any thoughts?

[Kierdale]

For the Imperial Guard (and anyone who allies in them) a bubble wrap of conscripts would be one layer of cheap protection. Space them all out just enough so that there isn't room for your opponent to put that big DS unit down.

[minigun762]

What's the cost of that squad?

 

My guess is it's going to be high, the same way you could run 10 combi weapon Sternguard. Sure you'd kill something dead but you've spent a lot of points doing it and bunched up for a retaliatory strike.

[CrystalSeer]

Stay in transports until it drops. Then watch them use death star to kill one tank. Proceed to hand out the Emperor's wrath.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

What's the cost of that squad?

 

My guess is it's going to be high, the same way you could run 10 combi weapon Sternguard. Sure you'd kill something dead but you've spent a lot of points doing it and bunched up for a retaliatory strike.

 

What retaliatory strike?  You can't charge them; that's a lot of AP2 Wall of Death-ness right there.  And not many people pack that many plasma cannons nowadays.  I suppose a Vindicator's a decent enough option, but you'll need two because they might just choose to blow up your one on the deep strike!

[L30n1d4s]

Vengeance Weapon Batteries with Battle Cannons and/or Imperial Knights with 2 shot Battle Cannons can provide a pretty devastating retrun fire volley the turn after they DS and shoot, but you will still likely lose one (or two, if they are smart and target a further away unit and have an intervening unit be "accidently" hit by their templates) units....

 

I am still wracking my brain to come up with a solution that prevents them from getting the initial alpha strike.... too bad we don't have the old Grey Knight Strike Squad "Warp Quake" power, which would have provided a very solid anti-DS defense in thise case.

 

Perhaps using Ahazra Redth (Imperial Armour character for Mantis Warriors) with a shooty squad could work... his Warlord Trait gives him and his Squad Interceptor, so at least you could get one volley on the Wraith Guard before they can shoot.

 

Another option (also Imperial Armour) is to use a Red Hunters force and, given their Chapter Tactics, grant a couple of squads Interceptor if the Eldar/Dark Eldar are deep striking in. A 6 man Centurion Squad with Lascannon/ML using Interceptor against the incoming Wraith Guard should be able to kill about 7 of them before they can shoot, so that is A LOT more manageable that 10 D-Scythes Templates unloading on a unit.

 

Finally, I guess you could take a combination of AM Officers of the Fleet and Callidus Assassins to delay enemy reserves several turns, thus buying you time to defeat the rest of the Eldar/Dark Eldar army (as someone pointed out, that is a lot of points/combat power tied up in a single unit) and, when they finally come in, use your army to overwhelm them.

[minigun762]

 

 

What's the cost of that squad?

 

My guess is it's going to be high, the same way you could run 10 combi weapon Sternguard. Sure you'd kill something dead but you've spent a lot of points doing it and bunched up for a retaliatory strike.

What retaliatory strike? You can't charge them; that's a lot of AP2 Wall of Death-ness right there. And not many people pack that many plasma cannons nowadays. I suppose a Vindicator's a decent enough option, but you'll need two because they might just choose to blow up your one on the deep strike!

Just assault them with two units. Toss some combat squads at them. One dies, the other ties up their death star and stops them from shooting.

After that either keep assaulting it or move away from the foot slogging template squad.

 

It just feels like too much of a one trick pony.

[Azash]

Well Centurions with Coteaz would be a good defense against this. However that's only going to preserve a 12" bubble around Coteaz the rest of your army is hanging in the wind.

 

I was thinking LSS but after rereading jamming beacon that's a no go. Rhinos/razorbacks to hide troops. Bubble wrapping as someone else stated even with 10 scouts if you can't ally in guard. Shielding with invisible units as well since they couldn't be targeted.

 

The advantage of bubble wrapping scouts is you can combat squad to keep over lapping shields. Limit damage and assault with both squads. One would be toast. The idea is you get one or two in assault and hit them with a clean up unit.

 

Another option would be if your space wolves to take 2-3 extra rhinos and make a rhino wall to screen them off.

[Stickeh]

Yet another argument to take chimeras and rhinos for anything that can have them, rhinos in particular are cheap enough not to be a huge points burden and act as a sacrificial lamb for a unit. Mechanised armies are at a distinct advantage against this Death Star, as any unit not in a transport is gonna take a ton of wounds from this.

 

Reserve your counter unit (grav cents are ideal, russes, basilisks and anything with an AP3 pie plate will work also) and when your opponent DS' his death star and wipes out the sacrificial transport, counter with your own unit the following turn, which should give you the ability to bypass any LoS! shenanigans.

 

If your opponent anticipates the counter unit and chooses to hold back on Dsing the Death Star, that's an awfully large point sink that's not contributing in any way to the battle and you can hurt them at range.

 

It goes without saying that reserve manipulation is a huge asset to have, and even with Tiggy or a comms relay nothing is guaranteed, but this is really a game of chance and some risks just can't be eliminated entirely.

[Gentlemanloser]

The new WWP allows DS without Scatter?

 

Anyway, this is the same problem we used to face with the old Flamers (and other similar units).  As said, with the removal of Warp Quake, there are only three real options;

 

1: Mech up.  Let them eat a Rhino.

 

2: Bubblewrap with mass cheap expendible units

 

3: Coteaz.

 

I have a feeling that "I've been expecting you" will disapear as we know it, once GW get round to updating Codex: Inquisition.

[Toldavf]

Go play tau Instead.

 

On a serious note you will only face 3-4 of them shooting you admitidly that's scary and probably the end of most squads.

 

Corteaz and bubble rap seem best as imperial armies have to little intercept ATM.

[incinerator950]

The Chaos response?...

[L30n1d4s]

Well, nothing to prevent the initial strike, but vehicles and Cultist bubble-wrap to mitigate the first Wraithguard volley. After that, Heldrakes with Baleflamers are quite nasty against Wraithguard, as are Ecto-plasma Forgefiends and counter-charging Mauler Fiends.

[Toldavf]

Take 3vindicators punish them after they ds.

 

Dealing with over powered eldar nothing new really.

[minigun762]

The Chaos response?...

Invisible Cultist bubblewrap?

[Axagoras]

eh id just reserve my biker blob but leave 1 master on the table and when they show up laugh as with 10 hits on the lone dude they cause 1 failed save and then his orbital ruins them...

[Toldavf]

Assaulting that unit is most undesirable ;p

[minigun762]

Assaulting that unit is most undesirable ;p

 

Can only overwatch once though. 

 

I checked out the price tag and you're looking at 400+ plus points just for the Bone Golems themselves. Rumor I saw puts the Webway as the same price as a Drop Pod. Assuming even a modest Dark Eldar HQ, you're at 500 points easy. 

[Kilofix]

How about:

 

Firestorm Redoubt + Machine Spirit

(with optional addition of Quad Gun)

 

=

 

Super long range

Interceptor

Skyfire (hits Skimmers at full BS)

[Toldavf]

Seem unviable at 10 men because of DS rules you will be unable to get more then a couple to fire.

 

It would probably be more threatening to see 3 regular units and some wraith blades arrive turn 2. Its just a wild theory but you could be facing down 40 wraith guard easily?

[walpurgisnacht]

Use salt. This is a rumor.

[hornywingythingy]

Yeah, you'd run 5 with two farseers rolling sanctic for goi, hammerhand and sanctuary. Actually quite cheap. 210 for the guards, 215 for the two seers, hundred ish for the archon. Can't even pin it down as they just gate off.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can Eldar go for Telepathy for Invis?  If you get lucky and roll GoI early, you'd want to funnel the rest of the rolls into hopefully getting Invis as well.

 

Edit: Even a Culuxes is going to be of limited use stopping this.

 

ID causing Template >  Etherium

[L30n1d4s]

With regard to the limitations of deep-striking and not being able to use all the D-Scythe templates because the DS formation means many of the templates would hit your own models (which is illegal), if the player was using the Iyaden Supplement, then he could attach a Spiritseer to the Squad and use Voice of Twilight (Primaris, so guaranteed to have it), thus giving all the Wraithguard in the squad Battle Focus... this means they can DS in without scattering, then run D6" to spread out and so that all (or at least most) of their templates can still be legally used, then blow a unit off its rocker with 8-10 Distortion Templates.

 

Additionally, the Spiritseer is PML(2), so if it takes all powers from Runes of Battle Discipline, then it gets Voice of Twilight for free and up to two of the following, all of which can be useful to this unit:

 

1 - Destructor/Renewer (keep that Archon alive with regenerated wounds)

 

2 - Embolden/Terrify (drop enemy Ld by -3)

 

3 - Enhance/Drain (not too useful for Wraithguard, but Drain can make a unit about to assault Wraithguard much less potent)

 

4 - Protect/Jinx (all I have to say here is... Wraithguard with T6 and a 2+ save!!)

 

5 - Quicken/Restrain (now you can Battle Focus D6 + 3")

 

6 - Empower/Enervate (again, can weaken an enemy unit about to charge the Wraithstar)

[Axagoras]

its all cute but I just get 1 smashkill into that block and nothing can slow or hurt him. they lack invuls so even a democannon, orbital, plasma cannon/gun to go town on them