Wound allocation and flame templates

[brother_contagion]

Can a flame template weapon kill models in a unit that weren't in range of the template?

[shandwen]

I believe that any weapon can only kill models within its own range in 7th (6th was slightly different)

[Kristoff]

I believe that any weapon can only kill models within its own range in 7th (6th was slightly different)

Blasts being an exception...

[casb1965]

any template weapon only hits models under the template so a flame template can't hit any figure outside of its teardrop.

[Kristoff]

any template weapon only hits models under the template so a flame template can't hit any figure outside of its teardrop.

Not quite true. The order of Wound Allocation still holds. It is quite possible for Wounds to be applied to a model not "hit" by the template by virtue of being closer to the bearer.

 

It is more accurate to say: "A flame template can't hit any figure outside of the range and LOS of its teardrop."

[Axagoras]

you can pivot the template around all the models using a flamer and all enemy models under those arcs can be hit and killed if enough wounds are caused

[Jolemai]

In my opinion, the template is simply there for generating the number of hits. After that, any wounds generated are allocated to the nearest models first regardless if they are outside of the template (i.e to to left or right). However, don't the rules state that template weapons can not wound models out of range?

[Jacinda]

any template weapon only hits models under the template so a flame template can't hit any figure outside of its teardrop.

Kind of. Templates (and blast markers too, btw) are only used to count up the number of hits. Who takes the wound however can be models not touched by the template. It goes by who is closest to the firing unit. It is entirely possible in long gun lines that all of the wounds could be taken on models on the other end of the line who are outside of the template's range, yet closer to the unit than those who were hit by the template.

 

Weird, huh? Out of range of the firing model but in range of the unit. You could agre to pull them off by closest to the firing weapon but that is not how the rrules are written.

 

Anyway, those models under the template are hit, but wounds are allocated like any other.

[Kristoff]

In my opinion, the template is simply there for generating the number of hits. After that, any wounds generated are allocated to the nearest models first regardless if they are outside of the template (i.e to to left or right). However, don't the rules state that template weapons can not wound models out of range?

 

That goes for any non-Blast weapon. You cannot Wound any models that are out of the range of the weapon being used.

 

 

any template weapon only hits models under the template so a flame template can't hit any figure outside of its teardrop.

Kind of. Templates (and blast markers too, btw) are only used to count up the number of hits. Who takes the wound however can be models not touched by the template. It goes by who is closest to the firing unit. It is entirely possible in long gun lines that all of the wounds could be taken on models on the other end of the line who are outside of the template's range, yet closer to the unit than those who were hit by the template.

 

Weird, huh? Out of range of the firing model but in range of the unit. You could agre to pull them off by closest to the firing weapon but that is not how the rrules are written.

 

Not quite. You cannot lay a Template over your own unit, so, the Template-user would have to be one of the closest to be effective, anyway. They would still have to be in the Template's Range, but not necessarily in Template User's Range.

[casb1965]

 

any template weapon only hits models under the template so a flame template can't hit any figure outside of its teardrop.

Kind of. Templates (and blast markers too, btw) are only used to count up the number of hits. Who takes the wound however can be models not touched by the template. It goes by who is closest to the firing unit. It is entirely possible in long gun lines that all of the wounds could be taken on models on the other end of the line who are outside of the template's range, yet closer to the unit than those who were hit by the template.

 

Weird, huh? Out of range of the firing model but in range of the unit. You could agre to pull them off by closest to the firing weapon but that is not how the rrules are written.

 

Anyway, those models under the template are hit, but wounds are allocated like any other.

 

 

Wrong.

 

Direct quote from the rules

"To work out the

number of hits, you normally need

to hold the template or blast marker

over an enemy unit or a particular

point on the battlefield, and then

look underneath (or through, if

using a transparent template) to see

how many models lie partially or

completely underneath. A unit

takes a hit for each model that

is fully, or even partially,underneath the template or

blast marker."

 

So it's clear, unless you are under the template you cannot be hit by it.

[Dam13n]

Well you do cause a hit for each model under the template, the rest of the shooting phase proceeds as normal.  Rolling to wound, allocation and saves, removing models starting from those closest to the firer, etc.

 

It is the unit that suffers the hits, not the specific models.  As noted in your quote:  "A unit takes a hit for each model under the template"

 

So Jacinda is right.

 

Template weapons do not alter wound allocation in any way, the first line of which is "First allocate a wound from the wound pool to the model closest to the firing unit"

[Fibonacci]

 

So it's clear, unless you are under the template you cannot be hit by it.

 

You seem to be confusing hits for wounds.  Templates are used to determin the number of hits caused.  They generate a number.  Nothing more.  Once you have that number you can forget all about which models were under the template.  We don't care who was hit, only how many.

[Venemox]

@Kristoff:  Torrent weapons are a prime example of the closest models to the firer not being under the template.  Additionally, you could have a unit positioned such that the firer would have to cover models *not* the closest to his unit.  I.e. firing at an angle to not cover intervening friendlies or having to position the template to cover the maximum number of enemy models.

[Kristoff]

@Kristoff: Torrent weapons are a prime example of the closest models to the firer not being under the template. Additionally, you could have a unit positioned such that the firer would have to cover models *not* the closest to his unit. I.e. firing at an angle to not cover intervening friendlies or having to position the template to cover the maximum number of enemy models.

Still, not the most common of events.

[Venemox]

Especially now that the Heldrake has been nerfed fixed.  Knowing I'm going to charge after using my assault weapons, I will routinely place my flamers such that they aren't the closest to the enemies (to preserve them from Overwatch, should they survive the combat).  That makes for having to fire my flamers in what is not necessarily the best of angles.