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Emperor's Children Tactica

Fulgrim Emperors Children Kakophoni Maru Skara Palantine Blades Phoenix Terminators Slaanesh 3rd Legion Horus Heresy

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#26
Bowlzee

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@Raktra: I agree. I've never used mine like this, and not seen any in my area use them like this either. So not sure if it's a big blow to EC players :)



#27
Caustic63

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@Raktra: I agree. I've never used mine like this, and not seen any in my area use them like this either. So not sure if it's a big blow to EC players smile.png

 

Just out of curiousity, how do people in your area play Emperor's Children? This tactica has been a lot of me declaring how I think Emperor's Children should be and not a lot of outside opinions. I'd like to know what other players think of the legion and its strengths and weaknesses.



#28
Theredknight

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Well..iv just started with them, and lost 3/3. But the players I'm against generally know their armies.

Iv been using the Maru skara, but was wondering what units you count as having to be excluded, as slow and purposeful and heavy..as in super heavy? Or any tank? Or a weapon with hvy in it's stats?

I have been using a kharbydis to transport troops. It's cheaper than a spartan, and can deliver 20 troops. Today I tried 10 palatine blades, and 10 tab support with flamers. T1 I'd landed and deployed the flamers annihalating 2 units. T2 I moved a few inches, and deployed the blades.

Perhaps I should have paid for eidolon, but against d.eldar my blades took a beating, not realising that unit had ap2 weapons.. Hindsight..against marines this has potential to be pretty devastating, but apothecary with 5pt scanner can negate this also..

So what would you take in a 2500pt list? I have a fellblade as an option also seriously considering taking it next time!!

Kakophoni rules look pretty weak, unfortunately they compete against sheer weight of fire and range from volkite culverin, and you have to take 10 to ensure you wound enough to achieve a decent negative modifier. If they were assault or hvy 2, perhaps they'd seem more attractive..

This especially since the 'newer legions' seem to outclass us in a lot of rulesets. Or am I imagining this? Ih reducing strength or ranged attacks by 1? I'm wounding on 5s with bolters..hard to knock then off objectives like that. Sallies resistance to meltas flamer plasma volkite etc.

For winning a challenge that we are forced to make, what do we actually gain? Seems our only plus really is + d3 to sweeping advance. Even then you have to win a combat to do this.

I hope they get a bit of an update, because it just seems the first 4 are at a disadvantage to the other ones.

Phoenix guard look great, but again, the rulesets are a bit of a letdown. For terminators, why couldn't there be an option for ap value attacks, at least that's give them a chance against anything with 2+ if they got charged.
Rylanor for 260 Pts? Pshhh. See earlier and look at salamanders dread rules for less.

Palatines are the only ones I'm hoping I can use well and I think they are more of a point and shoot sort of thing. Once they are in the open they are so vulnerable.

As we are forced to make challenges, how do you give them a chance to survive and strike, The crappy initiative bonus in a challenge we get is useless on most really, as you have to take an ap2 unweildy weapon to try and kill off the enemy. Unless I'm missing something here?

#29
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I don't think you can put two separate units into the same kharydbis assault claw, redknight. I think the space is mostly there for squads of ten with the bulky rule or 20 man tactical squads/breachers/etc.. Not so that you can have two separate units ride together.
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#30
Elazar The Glorified

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Yeah only one unit per transport unless it's a superheavy.

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#31
Theredknight

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Ahhh last time I played with big troop transport was with a t.hawk.
Ah well, another nail in the coffin lol
He still won 5-14 anyway, probably did him a favour as I charged my blades into some d eldar with warlord lol

#32
Theredknight

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Generally, legions iv played are taking 2 pred executioners, and hvy support tooled with volkites, x 2. A spartan with melta resistance a couple if blocks of infantry , and possibly terminators in the spartan.

To sum up:

1: I have to challenge with any character, sgts- what can we do to try and get him to survive and win? (Against 2+save enemy)

Champion- do we go for charnabal sabre and hope for the best?

2: Do I not use Maru skara, and maybe another row if so.which?

3:combat blades on 2 18-20 man tacs seems mandatory for us? If I win I sweeping advance.

4:what is the best way to deal with the preds and volkite threat?

I look forward to any advice :-)

#33
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If you need AP2 at initiative, the easiest recourse left to you at that point would be a Preator with a Paragon Blade. Very points heavy but its pretty much the only option you have.

 

Other than that, your sarges are stuck with Axes and Fists.

 

Paying an extra (max) 40 points per squad for an extra CCW would be worth it for EC since they rely on winning CC so much. But thats a ~300 point 20 man Tac blob at that point. Consider Despoilers instead of Tactical Marines to bring the cost down. They're essentially jump pack-less Assault marines.

 

For Volkite Culverin Spam, easiest would be to use Barrage armament that potentially out ranges them. Consider a WW Scorpius and give your Tac Squads Nuncio-Voxii so that it can draw LoS from them if needed.

 

For Predators, Consider Skyhunter Jetbikes with Melta Bombs. Use their speed to circle around them rapidly, engage in CC, melta bomb that AV10 Rear.

 

Addendum: While HORRENDOUSLY expensive for any game under 2k points, think about using a 10 man Jetbike Squad (or two 6 mans if you need more heavy weapons) and give them Plasma Cannons. Give your Preator a Jetbike too and stick him with a squad that all have a 2+ save and T5 (due to the bikes) give him a Refractor field and he's essentially a Fast TEQ unit with a Heavy Bolter and Paragon Blade.


Edited by Slipstreams, 05 November 2014 - 05:25 PM.

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#34
Elazar The Glorified

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We have Phoenix Spears, that's S5 Ap2 at Initiative 5 for a Sergeant in a challenge. Yes, you have to charge for the full benefit of the Phoenix Spear but there are plenty of tricks to ensure you can get that.

Personally for Rites of War I'm running Pride of the Legion at the moment. Got a lot of time for Veteran Tactical squads with the Sniper rule and also moving Phoenix Terminators to Troops leaves more room in Elites for other fun things. As a result I don't run regular Tactical Marines but I'd be inclined to say the CCWs are worth the outlay because with Fulgrim and/or Rylanor on the table those extra attacks can make a world of difference in tipping a bad combat back to a draw or making a minor victory a rout and make that Crusader boosted Sweeping Advance. But only if the points allow, wouldn't awnt to be making too many compromises elsewhere for the sake of them I don't think.

Volkite Culverins are a pain. Barrage might well be a decent way to deal with them. Certainly I'd say they should be a target priority not least because even pot shots can make a world of difference as each casualty on that squad is four less shots you're having to take in return. Sheer weight of small arms fire is my best suggestion I'm afraid.

Rylanor, my Lightning, Land Raiders and my Outriders handle anti-tank duties for me whilst my Predator is busy returning the favour. If the Predators you're facing are being deployed in a Squadron then something like a Lightning might be the perfect solution as you can take out two in one round of shooting Kraken missiles at it

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#35
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I think the reduced strength against iron hands is a bit overpowered, but the emperors children are a very good legion.

I´ve to admit that they aren´t the easiest legion to play, but if you practise and use their advantages, they can be very strong.

They also got an update in the crusade army list + the istvaan campaign legions and the new edition is very advantegious for the legion.

 

1: Every character with the acces to a power fist, can take a phoenix power spear instead.

If you are able to charge your opponent, you get 3 S5 DS2 Attacks.

That should win you nearly every challenge.

 

2: Maru Skara is a very nice RoW.

That said, it has some harsh restrictions and you need the right list to really benefit from the outflanking.

For example some weapons with high strengh to shot in the side armour of tanks.

I also really like the RoW pride of the legion and lists without RoW.

First one with a lot of terminators, spartans, vigilators (for infiltration) and some nice extras.

The Second one with a maxed out tactical squad (20 marines, cc-weapons, vexilla, phoenix power spear, apothecary, melta bombs,...) in a spartan, a maxed out assault squad (20 marines, 4 power weapons, 1 power fist or phoenix power spear), a Command Squad with land raider and some extras.

For the HQ I like Eidolon or the primus Medicae.

Fulgrim would be a nice addtion or a master of ordnance if you can fit in a heavy support squad.

 

3: Yes, but only if you are able to get into close combat.

If you equip your tactical marines with additional cc-weapons, you should also play them with an assault vehicle.

The Kharbydis isn´t bad, but I much prefer the Spartan.

There are a lot of other things which help you win in cc, but I´ll talk about them later.

 

4: There are a lot of ways to deal whith them, but none of them is the best way.

The Spartan ist a great way to deal with tanks, especially with the RoW maru skara.

Contemptor mortis dreadnaughts work the same way (I would choose between lascannons and assault cannons).

The cheapest way to deal with tanks and masses of infantery are quad mortars (4 S8 Shots).

Heavy support Squads with the boost of a character also work very nicely.

Attack Bikes with MM are a nice combination with maru skara.

You see, there are a lot of ways to deal with this units.

 

Now about the strengths of the Emperor´s Children Legion.

At the first glance Empror´s Children might look a bit weak, but if you use all the little bonuses, they can become a very strong cc-army.

The first bonus is the crusader special rule, which gives you a bit more speed and d3 for sweaping assaults.

This isn´t much, but you have a higher chance to wipe out a squad after an succesfull round of close combat.

Also you are forced to challenge your oponent, but as compensation you get a boost for your initative.

Combine this with a phoenix power spear and you have good chances against other sergeants or even consuls.

Also remember that since 7. edition you can damage the squad of your opponent with left over attacks of the challenge.

Most of the time your opponent won´t accept the challenge, which is also good for you (the Squad can´t use the leadership of his sergeant).

Now you have something to work with, but there is always room for improvements.

The Emperor´s Children can choose between a bunch of units which boost their cc even further (And most of them are also good in cc).

First are the phoenix terminators.

they let you win an assault which would otherwise be considered a draw.

Then there is Rylanor, which lets you add 1 to the combat resolution.

Next comes Fulgrim, who benefits a lot of the new edition  and the updated rules.

His sire of the Emperor´s Children rule allows you to add 2 to the combat resolution.

Eidolon has a nice warlord trait, which gives you a higher chance to charge your enemy.

He is also one of the strongest cc-characters in the whole game.

Also don´t forget to buy sonic shriekers for your hq´s, because they will make your charakters a lot more dangerous.

 

What does this mean for your games:

If you play Emperors Children, you should also play a list which is strong in close combat.

This means you need units which have good chances to win an assault and a way to get your units into close combat (preferable with a charge).

Units with good chances to win an assault are maxed out tactical squads, big assault squads, palatine blades, command squads and different kinds of terminators.

if possible push your most important units with apothecaries or primus medicaes to be sure to win in close combat.

HQ´s are a good way to push your squads even a little bit more.

Most of the time you will use an assault vehicle to get your units into cc (Except for the assault squad).

In my oppinion the spartan is the best suited vehicle for this job.

The reason for this is very simple:

Maxed out squads and assault vehicles are very expensive and a good list also needs something against tanks.

With the spartan you have a durable assault vehicle and also a good amount of high strength firepower.

The assault squad is another awesome unit, because you don´t need an expensive tank, you have a lot of attacks and you have lots of bodies to protect the important power weapons.

 

What are the problems with this kind of list and how can you solve them:

Your biggest enemies are fearless units/armies, atsknf, vexillas and other boosts for leadership.

You can´t do much about the first two points, but there is an simple solution for your other problems.

You can spend some points on barrage weapons!

I think abot the whirlwhind scorpius and quad mortars, but there a even more options

Place templates over the vexilla/standard/character and you should be good.

The big advantage of the scorpius/quad mortar is, that you also get a good amount of high strenght shots against vehicles.

 

I think this was everything I could say about this topic.

A "bit" more than I planned to write. :-D


Edited by Elizablumi, 05 November 2014 - 08:46 PM.

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#36
Caustic63

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Generally, legions iv played are taking 2 pred executioners, and hvy support tooled with volkites, x 2. A spartan with melta resistance a couple if blocks of infantry , and possibly terminators in the spartan.

To sum up:

1: I have to challenge with any character, sgts- what can we do to try and get him to survive and win? (Against 2+save enemy)

Champion- do we go for charnabal sabre and hope for the best?


2: Do I not use Maru skara, and maybe another row if so.which?

3:combat blades on 2 18-20 man tacs seems mandatory for us? If I win I sweeping advance.

4:what is the best way to deal with the preds and volkite threat?

I look forward to any advice :-)

 

Double Executioners plus two Heavy Support Squads with Volkites (I'll assume they also have Augury Scanners from somewhere cause they are so cheap), two infantry blocks, and a Spartan with Terminators is pretty typical of a Legion Army. A little weak on the heavy vehicle elimination angle though... his most powerful guns can barely scratch AV13/14 Tanks which are aplenty in Legion Armies.

 

Keep in mind that Augury Scanners don't grant Interceptor, they merely let certain weapons fire as if they had the rule in a limited set of circumstances. These circumstances are specifically a unit deploying by deep strike within 18". This means Outflankers and Flyers (arriving by conventional means) aren't subject to it's rules.

 

The key to making the best use of the Maru Skara is to pick the right Outflanking units. Outflanking Close Combat units and Assault Vehicles is for the most part a sub-par strategy, since they're still going to get shot for at least one turn before they get to Assault your target foe.  The best outflankers are shooting units that use highly effective, close range guns such as Melta/Plas Outriders, or armour hunters looking to scrape an advantage by targetting more vulnerable side armour such as Missile Javelins or Kraken Lightning Fighters.

 

Okay now to answer your questions.

 

1. Considering a large portion of your opponents in a challenge are going to have 2+ saves, the safest option would be Power Axes/Fists for your sergeants unless you are a fairly mobile unit like Assault Marines, Jump Pack Palatines, Jetbikes, or Outriders.

 

For the Legion Champion he has a much wider range of weapon choices, so I'd go for Phoenix Power Spear, Charnabal Sabre (or Power Axe), and Meltabombs. This guarentees you at least some way of getting at AP2 even if you don't get the charge.

 

Keep in mind that Armoured Ceramite doesn't protect against Meltabombs because they use the Armourbane rule, not the Melta rule.

 

2. I haven't done my tactica on it yet (it's coming) but Maru Skara does have some significant drawbacks so it's nice to explore other options for an EC army. I'd probably most recommend Angel's Wraith for a couple of important reasons. Firstly it makes Jump Pack troops closer to being worth their points value because of Hit and Run, which allows you to recover and re-charge if a combat isn't going your way. This makes a great combo with Phoenix Spears, Sonic Shriekers and Zealot since these are all 'first round' benefits. Hit and Run also is complemented by the Emperor's Children benefit as a single (surviving) character in the unit increases their chances of passing the Initiative test.

 

Of course Angel's Wraith does have the disadvantages of being Reserves dependant (which isn't really a problem if you bring Fulgrim) and severely limiting your available unit choices, but moving Storm Eagles to dedicated transports does free up Fast Attack slots for Jetbikes, Javelins, and Primaris-Lightnings which are still great units. If you decide to use this rite of war, it's essentially a life style choice but as Emperor's Children one you likely won't regret.

 

3. Generally yes, CCW Tacticals (but not necessarily despoilers) are mandatory unless you are Pride of the Legion or Angel's Wraith. It's one of the points of balance of 30K I think that almost every Legion has to take them.

 

4. By Preds and Volkites I'll assume you are against an opponent running this army component:

 

Heavy Support:

 

Predator Executioner (x2) w Heavy Bolter Sponsons (x2)

Heavy Support Squad w Volkite Culverins (x10) w Augury Scanners

Heavy Support Squad w Volkite Culverins (x10) w Augury Scanners

 

These selections are generally stagnant and won't be moving too far over the course of a game, and have powerful anti-Deep Strike and anti-Infilrator defenses. Attempting to outshoot a formation like this is generally unwise as Emperor's Children unless you have the luxury of Fortifications and Bunkers to hide your own units. Bunkers will protect you from everything these guys can spit out, while defense lines & apothecaries will at the very least make you more resilient to his firepower.  That being said, this is an imperfect way to attempt to solve this problem, hence it is BLASPHAMY!

 

Knowing this type of arrangement is a high possibility, I'd use my mobility against him.  These guys find Jetbikes and Flyers pretty hard to deal with, so that's the angle I'd take. Outriders with Plasma, though expensive, would be deadly Outflankers to the HS Squads, while Outflanking Javelins with Missiles would be likely to cripple the Predators with side armour shots. Fire Raptors are just disgusting against this sort of cowardly behaviour, with their storm of AP3 shots and side mounted Reapers for side armour shots.

 

Using your Kharibdys with a Chaplain/Apothecary Lord & Phoenix Terminators could end up being pretty fun too, but generally the Spartan is better because you can start with it on the field (and even get first turn charges against aggressive opponents), and its not AV12.

 

 

...

 

 

Can you post a copy of your 2500pts list? I'd like to see it. If you are looking for some guidance perhaps you could check out my example list on the previous page.

 

P.S. Generally 30K games shouldn't be played at any less then 1500pts, because they start to become horribly weak due to expensive costing. Due to the way 30K is balanced, trying to fight against 40K armies you will almost always find yourself at a disadvantage when your wargear/models are priced to be fighting other marines.



#37
Elizablumi

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That is my idea for a list with 2500 points.

Hope you like it. :-)

  HQ (145pts)
  • Legion Centurion (145pts) (HH:LACAL p16)

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    Artificer Armour, jump pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker

    • Consul

      Primus Medicae (Sacred Trust)

Troops (785pts)
  • Legion Assault Squad (455pts) (HH:LACAL p31)

    Legiones Astartes

    19x Legion Assault Space Marines, 4x Power Weapon

    • Legion Assault Sergeant

      Power Fist

  • Legion Tactical Squad (330pts) (HH:LACAL p30)

    Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes

    19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear

Elites (290pts)
  • Apothecarion Detachment (50pts) (HH:LACAL p24)
    • Legion Apothecary

      Legiones Astartes

      Augury Scanner

  • Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180pts) (HH:LACAL p28)

    Atomantic Shielding, Helical Targeting Array

    Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (HH:LACAL p27)
    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (60pts)

      Extremely Bulky, Legiones Astartes

      Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') (Shell Shock)

Heavy Support (700pts)
  • Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (270pts) (HH:LACAL p52)
    • Land Raider Phobos (270pts) (HH:LACAL p0)

      Assault Vehicle, Machine Spirit

      Armoured Ceramite

  • Legion Spartan Assault Tank (315pts) (HH:LACAL p58)

    Assault Vehicle, Extra Armour, Machine Spirit

    Armoured Ceramite

  • Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts) (HH:LACAL p64)

    Rocket Barrage

Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    III: Emperor's Children

Lord of War (575pts)
  • Fulgrim the Illuminator (575pts) (HH:LAICL p36)

    Sire of the Emperor's Children, Strategic Planning, Sublime Swordsman

    Fireblade (Murderous Strike), Master of the Legion (*), Primarch (Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Fleet, Independent Character, It Will Not Die)

    • Legion Command Squad (195pts)

      Chosen Warriors, Legiones Astartes, Retinue

      4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Legion Standard Bearer, Power Fist, 4x Power Weapon


Edited by Elizablumi, 05 November 2014 - 11:39 PM.


#38
Slips

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As per Forum rules, I'd strongly advise you to remove the points cost for everything but totals.

 

ex: Legion Tactical Squad; 20 marines, Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox 275pts.

 

That way you don't inadvertently incur the wrath of the mods. The reason being is to avoid any problems with GW, whether they can happen or not.


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#39
Elizablumi

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Done.


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#40
Theredknight

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Looks like a heavy list el, not many boots on the ground though? Iv only played 3 games of 7th so trying to get used to it still!

How would you use that army in general? I like fulgrim and co sneaking in there :-)

#41
Theredknight

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Was thinking, instead of getting shredded, why not take a typhon seige tank? Itl Instant kill a good chunk of marines in cover, can sit at the back and hammer away with s10 ap1 shots. For not much more than a spartan cost..

#42
Caustic63

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That is my idea for a list with 2500 points.

Hope you like it. :-)

  HQ (145pts)
  • Legion Centurion (145pts) (HH:LACAL p16)

    Consul, Independent Character, Legiones Astartes

    Artificer Armour, jump pack, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear, Sonic Shrieker

    • Consul

      Primus Medicae (Sacred Trust)

Troops (785pts)
  • Legion Assault Squad (455pts) (HH:LACAL p31)

    Legiones Astartes

    19x Legion Assault Space Marines, 4x Power Weapon

    • Legion Assault Sergeant

      Power Fist

  • Legion Tactical Squad (330pts) (HH:LACAL p30)

    Fury of the Legion, Legiones Astartes

    19x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade

    • Legion Tactical Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear

Elites (290pts)
  • Apothecarion Detachment (50pts) (HH:LACAL p24)
    • Legion Apothecary

      Legiones Astartes

      Augury Scanner

  • Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (180pts) (HH:LACAL p28)

    Atomantic Shielding, Helical Targeting Array

    Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons

  • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (HH:LACAL p27)
    • Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (60pts)

      Extremely Bulky, Legiones Astartes

      Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun') (Shell Shock)

Heavy Support (700pts)
  • Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (270pts) (HH:LACAL p52)
    • Land Raider Phobos (270pts) (HH:LACAL p0)

      Assault Vehicle, Machine Spirit

      Armoured Ceramite

  • Legion Spartan Assault Tank (315pts) (HH:LACAL p58)

    Assault Vehicle, Extra Armour, Machine Spirit

    Armoured Ceramite

  • Legion Whirlwind Scorpius (115pts) (HH:LACAL p64)

    Rocket Barrage

Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    III: Emperor's Children

Lord of War (575pts)
  • Fulgrim the Illuminator (575pts) (HH:LAICL p36)

    Sire of the Emperor's Children, Strategic Planning, Sublime Swordsman

    Fireblade (Murderous Strike), Master of the Legion (*), Primarch (Adamantium Will, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Fleet, Independent Character, It Will Not Die)

    • Legion Command Squad (195pts)

      Chosen Warriors, Legiones Astartes, Retinue

      4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Legion Standard Bearer, Power Fist, 4x Power Weapon

 

 

Well let's take a look then.  Before we start though I have a few questions for you:

 

1) Are you using a Rite of War? If so, which one?

2) Which Warlord Trait have you chosen for Fulgrim?

 

It looks like your strategy is the double Deathstar, having a Land Raider with Fulgrim & Command Squad and a Spartan with a CCW Tactical Squad. My primary concern with your list is that the units you've picked to be your deathstars don't really take advantage of the Emperor's Children rules the way they should be and are kinda weak, barring Fulgrim.

 

Instead of mounting your Tacticals in a Spartan, why not invest in another Tactical Squad or more toys and have them simply walk? Crusader and Fury of the Legion make a decent combo on their own. I'd also swap the Command squad for a unit of 7 Palatine Blades (you have 4 elites slots in a legion army remember) with Sonic Shriekers and Meltabombs on the Prefector. These guys make a good combo with Fulgrim and hit harder and quicker then your current selection.

 

I'd also consider swapping some of the more stationary elements of your army such as the Rapier, Scorpius and Contemptor Mortis for more mobile units like Jetbikes with Meltabombs, Fire Raptor(s), and/or Outflankers such as Javelins and Outriders (you have Fulgrim so they are super reliable).

 

The fact that your Tactical Squad has a Phoenix Spear and your Assault Squad doesn't sort of baffles me. I understand in this list you have your Tacticals in a Spartan, but wouldn't your Assault Squad also have a good/great chance of getting the charge off to claim the maximum benefit from the spear as well?

 

If you're worried about vehicles (which you should be), Meltabombs are almost mandatory kit on characters as insurance against your large and expensive squads getting stuck against an opponent they can't kill.



#43
Elizablumi

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@ Theredknight:

 

That´s not easy to answer.

It´s my goal to paint a smaller version of this army (2000 points at the beginning), so for the moment I can´t share any experience from games with you.

The strenghts and advantages of the Emperors Children are all based on close combat, so i wrote a list which should perform very well in this aspect.

That also fits very well with my imagination of an flexible and mobile army of proud swordsmen.

The foundation of this army are the maxed out tactical squad in a spartan and the assault squad.

That gives you two strong and fast units + something against vehicles.

Next I would add the whirlwhind scorpius (or other weapons with barrage), which sits on an objective.

The scorpius is good against marines, strong enough to hurt most tanks (You always hit the side armour) and you can try to sniper vexillas/characters.

That makes it a lot likelier to slay units with a sweaping assault.

The command squad in land raider adds another dangerous cc-unit, which can assist the tactical squad and the assault squad.

Now you have 3 threats which should be to hard to ignore for your opponents.

If your opponent hasn´t got weapons with barrage, you could also use the land raider and spartan to hide your assault squad behind.

I would choose a primus medicae or Eidolon ( which is a cc-beast) to lead the army.

Both increase the probability of surviving for your assault squad and Eidolon also adds a lot of punch.

In bigger games can swap Eidolon for Fulgrim, which is basically a bigger and scurvier version of Eidolon, with a nice bonus for your cc-units.

the rest of the list consists of some nice and powerful toys, but none of them is needed for the list to work.

The Quad mortar is fragile but flexible, because you can snipe some vexillas or destroy tanks (4 shots with S8).

It also could be a cheap unit which sits hidden on an objectiv.

The contemptor adds a lot of dakka, but would be the first thing to swap for something else.

So if you want more manpower, you could swap the contemptor and the armored ceramite of the tanks, for a tactical support squad with volkites.

The heavy siege tank looks good, has awesome rules and will be the first super heavy I ever buy.

But I have to say that I don´t know if he is the right choice for this list, because I would need to swap fulgrim for him.

Fulgrim is an awesome primarch and the rule "sire of the emperors children" is such a nice bonus for this list.

It gives you 2+ for combat resolution, which is awesome!

 

I have a short question:

 

I read that you could give Fulgrim "Paladine of Glory" which boosts the combat resolution even further.

Where can I find this rule/option (I only have betrayal and massacre + a list of changes from the small books).

 

edit: I found it!

 

@ Caustic63:

 

1: Nope, this list works without a RoW

 

2: I think i would play Paladine of Glory most of the time, but Child of terra and World Burner also sound nice.

I didn´t give it to much thought, because I will start with 2000 points and Eidolon instead of Fulgrim.

I only made a list with 2500 points, because Theredknight asced us to do so. :-)

 

Thanks for your suggestions for the list.

I think you forget the assault squad, which would be the third deathstar.

Yes, the command squad  could be swapped for terminators or palatine blades.

I just like the idea of an command squad in this legion and and it wouldn´t make a very big difference for my games, if I would take palatine blades instead.

Yes, the assault squad has a power fist, because the primus medicae is responsible for challenges. :-)

Why do you think that the units don´t take enough advantage of their rules?

I will wait with fast units till I want to play a list with the maru skara RoW.

There are quite a few reasons for this decision.

 

1.: I need units to hold objectives.

The quad mortar and the scorpius are the only units which are meant to do this at the beginning of the game.

 

2.: To start a 30k-army is very expensive, so I decided to start with units which can be used in a variety of different lists.

Javellins and outriders are to specialised to be used in a lot of lists.

 

3.: The units you proposed cost a lot of points and my list hasn´t got a lot of manpower.

I don´t want to make the army even smaller.

 

I could swap the contemptor and armored ceramite for something else.

I´m thinking about a big tactical support squad with volkites.

What do you think about it, or do you have another suggestion?


Edited by Elizablumi, 07 November 2014 - 02:45 AM.


#44
Theredknight

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I view combat blades as pretty much mandatory for us, reason being, I have taken them in all 3 games I have played.

The tactical flexibility of them makes it viable. Ie.. If you have a unit of tacticals with bp and cc weapon, and they get stuck out at a distance more than 12" they are wasting shots which could otherwise be directed at the enemy.
Even so far as they must hold an objective, so 20 or 40 bolter rounds can make a difference somehere.

Also, I got charged by 15 IH tacticals, I was there with about an equal number, managed to weather the charge. But in subsequent phase due to blades beat them and ran them down in sweeping advance. For 2pta each I see it as mandatory for ec.

With the bp, you can fury before charging also if you'd like, then charge in with 3 attacks each!

#45
Theredknight

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What are our unit restrictions for Maru skara by the way?

#46
Elizablumi

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Combat blades can be a good choice, but I only consider them for tactical squads with transporter.

If you only want your squads to sit on an objective in the mitfield, it could be better to make them cheap.

 

The restrictions/downsides of Maru Skara:

 

- You have to take a second HQ, which has to be a Legion Champion.

 

- You can´t take fortifications or allied Space Marines.

 

- You can´t field immobile units, or units with slow and purposeful (What are heavy units?)

 

- You need to slay the enemy warlord



#47
Raktra

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This "heavy units" question pops up waaay too much. Vehicles can have the "heavy" type. There we go.


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#48
Caustic63

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@ Caustic63:

 

1: Nope, this list works without a RoW

 

2: I think i would play Paladine of Glory most of the time, but Child of terra and World Burner also sound nice.

I didn´t give it to much thought, because I will start with 2000 points and Eidolon instead of Fulgrim.

I only made a list with 2500 points, because Theredknight asced us to do so. :-)

 

Thanks for your suggestions for the list.

I think you forget the assault squad, which would be the third deathstar.

Yes, the command squad  could be swapped for terminators or palatine blades.

I just like the idea of an command squad in this legion and and it wouldn´t make a very big difference for my games, if I would take palatine blades instead.

Yes, the assault squad has a power fist, because the primus medicae is responsible for challenges. :-)

Why do you think that the units don´t take enough advantage of their rules?

I will wait with fast units till I want to play a list with the maru skara RoW.

There are quite a few reasons for this decision.

 

1.: I need units to hold objectives.

The quad mortar and the scorpius are the only units which are meant to do this at the beginning of the game.

 

2.: To start a 30k-army is very expensive, so I decided to start with units which can be used in a variety of different lists.

Javellins and outriders are to specialised to be used in a lot of lists.

 

3.: The units you proposed cost a lot of points and my list hasn´t got a lot of manpower.

I don´t want to make the army even smaller.

 

I could swap the contemptor and armored ceramite for something else.

I´m thinking about a big tactical support squad with volkites.

What do you think about it, or do you have another suggestion?

 

One of the main reasons you take Fulgrim is for the Warlord Trait choice, since it opens up so many possibilities for building your army. If you pull out the 40K rulebook you can pick up warlord traits such as all units within 12" reroll 1s to hit while shooting/assaulting plus Infiltrating most of your army and more personal traits to make him better at the CC angle.  Make sure you pick one and incorperate it into the choices you make when you build your army.

 

I haven't forgotten the Assault Squad. I consider them to be a borderline Deathstar at best since there are a good number of units your enemy can take that will defeat them in close combat in a straight up fight. Examples of this would be just about any unique Legion Terminator Squad plus the vanilla variety, and also even some non-terminator foes such as any infantry unit thats World Eaters, Palatine Blades, Templars, etc.  Speaking from experience, the only reason to run Assault Marines in a Legion army is because you need to fill the Troops slots somehow and they are the favoured aggressive option.

 

Imho you aren't taking the most advantage of the Emperor's Children rules because you are running a CC based army that doesn't have any EC unique units to take advantage of the copious amounts of Sonic Shriekers and Phoenix Power Spears available.  Palatine Blades specifically can be expanded to up to 10 models and/or equipped with Power Spears for twice the cost a Power Sword.

 

A unit like this would absolutely crush your opponents charging out of a Spartan/Land Raider:

 

Palatine Blades (x10)

> Phoenix Power Spears (x10)

> Prefector w Meltabombs

> Sonic Shriekers

 

= 360 points

 

and wouldn't hold up too bad if they were charged either, provided its not Terminators coming at them.

 

Phoenix Terminators require some baby sitting, but they aren't a slouch coming out of a LR/Spartan either. Plus the models are really good looking (I know because i own some :) )

 

Now to address your reasons for not wanting to use Maru Skara or Fast units in general.

 

Objective holding is not a weakness for fast armies... in fact its actually a strength! You don't need to hold an objective all game, but rather have more of them then your opponent on the last turn. To this end, Jetbikes and Fast Skimmers (if they are alive) are particularly good at last turn snatching of objectives since all units are scoring now.  Don't get caught into thinking that standing on a marker all game is the only way to ensure it is held.  That being said, from a fluff and rules point of view Emperor's Children were involved in many facets of war and don't favour particular unit types, so your choices aren't wrong in any sense they are just not what I personally would take in my army.

 

30K is expensive naturally, so if you are picking choices that appeal to a wide variety of playstyles then there is nothing wrong with that from an economic point of view. However, I don't agree that Outriders/Javelins are too specialized for inclusion in standard armies. Both have Outflanking built into their rules without the Maru Skara, and both perform tasks that are useful in generally every game. Plasma Outriders can come on and go for side armour, or lay into squads of MEQ or TEQ troops. Javelins can take double Hunterkiller Missiles each, allowing them to throw out a storm of Krak Missiles the turn they arrive which are useful against both Marines and vehicles.

 

Volkite Tactical Support Squads aren't a bad idea, though if you can free up a Heavy Support slot the heavier version of Volkites on the Heavy Support squads are better for what you want to do.



#49
Theredknight

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I haven't seen an answer concerning heavy, but I think ruling out all tanks is a bit silly.. I'd take it as things like super heavies, slow and purposeful units (cataphractii?)

So my 2300 pt list (I'd rather play more) goes like this

Eidolon

20 assault squad 2 pa 2 ps
Sgt art arm p fist c.shield

Terminators 10
Reaper, p. Blast gun, 4 c.melta 3 pf 2 cf

Tacticals 20
Blades sgt art arm p fist

Kharbydis 260

Primaris fully tooled with x2 kraken 1 phosphex

Javelin las and mm

Champion art alarm Phoenix spear m
Bombs c shield shrieker bolter j pack

Chaplain shrieker m bombs p axe c shield j pack

Apothecary art arm volkite

Idea being t 1 Termies land and paste armour hopefully packs and eidolon with jump up aiming for charge t2 tacticals add fire or secure objective.

T 2 charge hopefully with eidolon
Termies charge or support tacs move about or not
Primaris and speeder knock out backfield artillery or phosphex volkites off objective

Then..it depends on battlefield conditions

Hopefully eidolon will smash anyone on the charge, backed by all re rolling to hit 1st turn champ and chap. 20 guys should hopefully soak up wounds.

This is against a normal army not a spammy all volkite win button list.

#50
Raktra

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All tanks aren't "heavy"...


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Fulgrim, Emperors Children, Kakophoni, Maru Skara, Palantine Blades, Phoenix Terminators, Slaanesh, 3rd Legion, Horus Heresy

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