[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Caillum]

It's either Strategic or Legion. Pretty good given no other Primarch gets to!

[Fangbanger]

he can take any Trait from Legion too

 

me personally, I'd be looking at re-roll reserves for the lightning and it let's your add +1 to sieze so usefull.

 

it also just states while your warlord is alive you may re-roll

 

and anvilus comes in turn 1 auto anyway

Edited April 18, 2017 by Fangbanger

[GorgeousGoat]

Master of Ambush - infiltrate onto objectives early in Dominion. Outflank units if in reserves for Shatter strike with Fulgrim's re-roll.

Strategic Genius - If lots of flyers and outflanking tanks outside of Maru Skara. +1 to seize is dependent on who you're facing/map etc.

Child of Terra - Deathstar time of chaplain, 6+ terminators (chainfists with 2 TH), and an apothecary. Always use Fireblade, you're killing all infantry on 2's with re-rolling 1's. Mechanicum will cry with instant death 5+ too

 

Only WT's I've ever used for Fulgrim.

[Fangbanger]

I'm finding the third really hard to right lists for and so have jiggled around my previous effort due to lack of AP2 and anti-armour. As much as I wanted to include some palatines or Phoenix termies too, I just felt points wise with the assault squad I had a similar thing anyway. Kept Eidolon as I think he will be cool running with the assault marines and so opted to drop fulgrim for some heavier firepower:

 

3rd company elite: 3000pts

 

Eidolon, jump pack

 

3 X apoth, 1 with jump pack

 

15 X assault marines, sonic shriekers, 3 x PW, sarge has AA, Shield, MB, spear (apoth 1)

9 X kakophoni , orchestra with AA, MB, Spear. Rhino with MM (apoth 2)

9 X kakophoni , orchestra with AA, MB, Spear. Rhino with MM (apoth 3)

10 X kakophoni , orchestra with AA, MB, Spear. Rhino with MM

 

2 X Javs, missiles, MM, 2 X hunters each

Lightning kraken beast

 

Leviathan, pod, melta lance, drill, volkite, AC, Phosphex

 

Falcion, AC

 

 

So with the Levi and the falcion I have some added punch to deal with armour and terminators once they are out in the open. The podding Levi also offers me a nice distraction to take some heat off the assault squad and get in to any backfield template droppers.

 

I think the assault squad will be lucky to make it to combat as everything else is armoured so if I lose turn 1 and there are thud guns/scorpious/medusa opposite, I'm pretty sure I'm :cussed...if I wasn't running the Levi then I'd likely run the blades in a pod with Eidi instead of an assault squad so they are not left in reserve (however come to think of it, they could be used as a clean up squad once the Lightning has taken care of tough armour maybe?). I do like the look of assault marines though so would like to keep them

 

The kakophoni can be mobile and give me options with the rhinos. Move to objectives, back up certain areas and even send the rhino off alone with the melta if need be.

 

This is the plan for an event in October and something to work towards so will definatly get hold of Phoenix and Fulgrim just to give me some different options for other games etc.. But the above list is my current work towards.

 

Thoughts on the changes?

Edited April 20, 2017 by Fangbanger

[Rangaman]

Cool list, anyone who runs a Falchion is usually a top bloke!

 

I have a suggestion based on my own experience against podding Leviathans, they can be easy to outmaneuver or deny area to Deepstrike and depending on the opponent, they can be farely easy to kill. I would suggest demoting him to a Contemptor-Cortus in a pod and use the remaining points for more Javelins.

 

Also, how necessary are Power Spears on the Kakaphoni?

[Fangbanger]

Thanks for the reply (although not sure if sarcasm was intended regarding the falcion comment... ;-)

 

I hear what you are saying regarding the leviathan however, I run a cortus in my world eaters that drops down alongside a kharybdis full of mad men and it always disappoints. Yes its cheap, but its easy to get blown apart or just ends up doing nothing so i dont really want to take one again. Im was even going to drop the one in my eaters for a levi but now im thinking of running one withe the EC i'll keep him.

 

The phoenix spears are there on the kophs for the chance of challenges when trying to hold tac squads off of objectives and give them a bit of extra bite to help them stand their ground. I Just figure for 15pts it makes them that touch more versatile as I dont really want them just sitting back 

[Lord Asvaldir]

Problem is for a phoenix spear to work best, you need to charge and you basically never want to do that with kakaphoni. Given the firepower those guys have they are a high value target, so you don't want them anywhere near any half decent assault unit that will just easily destroy them in an assault. If you really want some sort of weapon on your sarg, go for a power axe at least which is reliant on you charging to be ap2. 

[Rangaman]

Thanks for the reply (although not sure if sarcasm was intended regarding the falcion comment... ;-)

 

I hear what you are saying regarding the leviathan however, I run a cortus in my world eaters that drops down alongside a kharybdis full of mad men and it always disappoints. Yes its cheap, but its easy to get blown apart or just ends up doing nothing so i dont really want to take one again. Im was even going to drop the one in my eaters for a levi but now im thinking of running one withe the EC i'll keep him.

 

The phoenix spears are there on the kophs for the chance of challenges when trying to hold tac squads off of objectives and give them a bit of extra bite to help them stand their ground. I Just figure for 15pts it makes them that touch more versatile as I dont really want them just sitting back

No sarcasm intended, I run a Falchion and I absolutely love it!

 

The Kakaphoni should be kept away from combat, Relentless works perfectly with helping them to stay at arms length of all times.

 

Run the Leviathan man, some games you won't face much Anti-armour and he will shine!

[Fangbanger]

ok so here's a question: the power weapons on my orcestra or shileds on my assault marines?

 

If not sheilds, what else should i do with 45pts?

[Rangaman]

I would be tempted to find another 30 odd points for another Javelin Edited April 20, 2017 by Rangaman

[Fangbanger]

maybe the multi meltas on the rhinos?

 

Or sonic shriekers on the assault squad?

 

or 1 x koph from the 10 man squad and 1 power weapon from assault marine?

Edited April 20, 2017 by Fangbanger

[Rangaman]

Either option three or you could lose the Apothecaries from the two Kakaphoni units and bump those to 10men each. Its up to you, and I would suggest playtesting either list and the changes too.

 

You may find that Gets Hot doesn't happen enough to warrant the Apoths and the unit may be better off with one extra Kakaphoni shooting instead. I haven't used them before so I can't really say how well they perform.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Rangaman

[Kizzdougs]

Master of Ambush - infiltrate onto objectives early in Dominion. Outflank units if in reserves for Shatter strike with Fulgrim's re-roll.

Strategic Genius - If lots of flyers and outflanking tanks outside of Maru Skara. +1 to seize is dependent on who you're facing/map etc.

Child of Terra - Deathstar time of chaplain, 6+ terminators (chainfists with 2 TH), and an apothecary. Always use Fireblade, you're killing all infantry on 2's with re-rolling 1's. Mechanicum will cry with instant death 5+ too

 

Only WT's I've ever used for Fulgrim.

Should you be using Fireblade in a 3rd Company Elite army? I thought Fireblade was only available for pre-Isstvan V/Great Crusade games.

[Rangaman]

Didn't Fulgrim use Fireblade at some point after being corrupted?

 

Either way, the stats for the Blade of the Laer are pretty, pretty average. Using Fireblades stats as the Laer's isn't that bad...if we went off the time line then the poor old Iron Hands would never get the chance to use Ferrus

[Kizzdougs]

Didn't Fulgrim use Fireblade at some point after being corrupted?

 

Either way, the stats for the Blade of the Laer are pretty, pretty average. Using Fireblades stats as the Laer's isn't that bad...if we went off the time line then the poor old Iron Hands would never get the chance to use Ferrus

It depends what you consider corrupted :P After Laer, after Horus turned him, after killing Ferrus at Isstvan V...?

Ferrus wielded the reforged Fireblade at the Drop Site Massacre. I'm not too sure what happened to it after that. Fulgrim also got rid of the Laer Blade after using it to kill Ferrus (he gave the now 'empty' blade to Lucius)... so the main problem is that we don't have rules for a fluff accurate post-Isstvan Fulgrim.

 

I don't have the red book to hand right now, but I thought it actually said in the rules that Fireblade was for games set during the Great Crusade.

 

Either way, Fireblade is definitely the better option and I'm sure no one would mind if you use it. I just don't think it's very fluffy.

 

I can't wait to see what Forgeworld do with ascended/post-Angel Exterminatus Fulgrim 

[Withershadow]

he can take any Trait from Legion too

 

it also just states while your warlord is alive you may re-roll

 

and anvilus comes in turn 1 auto anyway

It states while he's present on the battlefield. The FAQ states anything in a transport is not on the battlefield and does not interact with anything on it unless otherwise stated. *shrug*

[Rangaman]

 

 

Didn't Fulgrim use Fireblade at some point after being corrupted?

 

Either way, the stats for the Blade of the Laer are pretty, pretty average. Using Fireblades stats as the Laer's isn't that bad...if we went off the time line then the poor old Iron Hands would never get the chance to use Ferrus

It depends what you consider corrupted :P After Laer, after Horus turned him, after killing Ferrus at Isstvan V...?

Ferrus wielded the reforged Fireblade at the Drop Site Massacre. I'm not too sure what happened to it after that. Fulgrim also got rid of the Laer Blade after using it to kill Ferrus (he gave the now 'empty' blade to Lucius)... so the main problem is that we don't have rules for a fluff accurate post-Isstvan Fulgrim.

 

I don't have the red book to hand right now, but I thought it actually said in the rules that Fireblade was for games set during the Great Crusade.

 

Either way, Fireblade is definitely the better option and I'm sure no one would mind if you use it. I just don't think it's very fluffy.

 

I can't wait to see what Forgeworld do with ascended/post-Angel Exterminatus Fulgrim

Yea post-Istvaan I think Fulgrim went into battle with his bare fists... Kinda disappointing that a CC dedicated Primarch got such an average melee weapon (Laer) compared to some other Primarchs. I look forward to a Daemon Fulgrim and his four arms though!

[Jackalwolf]

Ferrus destroys Fireblade with his bare hands in Istvann V I believe.

[Rangaman]

Ferrus destroyed Fireblade when Fulgrim tried converting him to the Warmasters side, he then reforged it for his battle against Fulgrim on Istvaan V....atleast I'm pretty sure he did.

 

I could see the now-corrupted Fulgrim taking Fireblade from Ferrus' headless corpse, seems justification for Fireblades use during the Heresy.

 

Edit: All those Fs almost made for a tongue twister

Edited April 21, 2017 by Rangaman

[Kizzdougs]

Yeah, I've got my 'Legiones Astartes' book in hand now. Under the stats for the Blade of the Laer it says;

 

During the Great Crusade Fulgrim wielded Fireblade, wrought for him by the hand of Ferrus Manus. In games set in this era, rather than the Blade of the Laer, he is equiped with a master-crafted paragon blade which inflicts its Murderous Strike on rolls of 5+.

'Legiones Astartes', p.17.

 

So the Fireblade isn't a wargear option, it's an item that is dependent on the setting of the game being played. Of course most opponents wouldn't mind if you decide to us Fireblade (like you said the Laer Blade is pretty trash), they'd probably expect it, but it wouldn't be a fluffy choice and would be contrary to Forge World's intentions.

[Rangaman]

Yea I can't deny that man, I wonder how this is treated in a tournament setting? I plan on having my own EC army ready for a tournament later this year and using Fulgrim...of course Fireblade would be a better option for all the Custode armies that have popped up recently, but I wonder if the same players would dispute the use of Fireblade.

[Kizzdougs]

Yea I can't deny that man, I wonder how this is treated in a tournament setting? I plan on having my own EC army ready for a tournament later this year and using Fulgrim...of course Fireblade would be a better option for all the Custode armies that have popped up recently, but I wonder if the same players would dispute the use of Fireblade.

I'm sure you would be fine. No one would bat an eyelid. Like I said earlier, 95% of gamers probably wouldn't know any better.

I'm pretty sure there was a guy at the 30k invitational event, 'No Retreat', in Gibraltar that equiped Fulgrim with the Fireblade.

[okonomiyakimarine]

maybe the multi meltas on the rhinos?

 

Or sonic shriekers on the assault squad?

 

or 1 x koph from the 10 man squad and 1 power weapon from assault marine?

shields for all assault squads, really helps a lot. there was a discussion on this topic somewhere in this thread.

[Fangbanger]

Yeah I did see it. A 6++ seems too weak though in my opinion. They are already expensive enough I feel

[Slips]

Yeah I did see it. A 6++ seems too weak though in my opinion. They are already expensive enough I feel

6++ vs shooting, 5++ in CC though; already better than the 40k version.