Kydoimos Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hi there, Here I am finally, after lurking a lot on the different subforums, I dare write my first post. Like I said in my presentation, I'm aiming at building an IH army. I read the different threads here and the rules and came up with this list which owes a lot to kitwulfen's ideas : QGSpearhead-Centurion Castrmen OrthELITEContemptor-mortis dreadnought with two Kheres pattern assault cannonTROOPSTactical Squad (15) - Vexilla- Sergeant : Artificer amor, Melta bombs Tactical Squad (15)- Vexilla- Sergeant : Artificer amor, Melta bombs HEAVY SUPPORTLegion Sicaran battle tank- LascannonLegion whirlwind scorpiusTotal : 1000 points I tested it last Friday against a SM player who fielded a chapter master on bike with artificer armor, the burning blade (? ; I'm French, so I don't know the English name of this weaon) and melta bombs ; a bike squad with two grav guns and an assault bike with melta guns ; 5 bolter scouts ; one Imperial knight and a Callidus assassin. Quite a surprising army, for me at least. I lost this game at the end of turn 4. It started well though : I stole the initiative, with all my army on my right side, far from his knight. My idea was to get rid of the bikes and the chapter master first. So I shot everythind I had at them, killing one bike with the Whirlwind on T1 and the rest except the CM T2 with he sicaran and the contemptor. The CM lost 2 wounds with fury of the legion (1 already lost T1) on T2 but stayed alive. Meanwhile, the Knight was coming closer... and destroyed one squad T4 after losin a HP with the sarge's melta bombs! I was aware that HH marines don't have ATSKNF, but what a surprise to see 12 marines destroyed because fleeing a fight they lost. Even the vexilla didn't help. And the worst was that the CM came into contact with my second squad and destroyed it also after killing my sarge in duel... and finished the job with my contemptor, which resisted well thanks to a successful 6++ in CC. So at the beginning of my turn 5, I only had my whirlwind left, the Sicaran had also been destroyed by the Knight. I was really pleased with these new rules and units. Except the Whirlwind : he had only a few uninteresting targets and never made a difference. The Sicaran is good and Orth a really useful add-on, but I misused it since I concentrated on the CM and never tried to shot at the Knight's back to profit from the tank hunter rule. The Contemptor wasn't useful as anti air but its high rate of fire helped to destroy the bike squad. The squads are, however, really really slow. We used the Maelstrom of war tactical objectives and except the first turn where I got an objective without moving, I was never able to reach them. And they are fragile! That changed everything in an instant. So I thought of this new list to solve these problems : Space Marines : Pre Heresy : IH [1000] v2 QGSpearhead-Centurion Castrmen OrthCenturion - ChaplainELITERapier x2Laser destroyerTROOPSTactical squad (15) : 220 ptsVexillaSergeant : artificer armorTactical squad (15) : 220 ptsVexillaSergeant : artificer armorHEAVY SUPPORTLegion Sicaran battle tankPredator x2Total : 1000 points The contemptor is out, as is the Whirlwind. these units didn't performed really well, so I'll try somethin else. Since I'm playing only with proxies, I can try a lot of different configuration. I choose to have more armor on the field with a high rate of fire each. The Sicaran's lascannons are replaced by the Rapier in order to keep some heavy anti-armor. The Chaplain is obviously there to make a squad more reliable : this squad will be the "Anvil" ie not moving much in the center of my army and aiming at using its firepower. The other squad will move on a flank in order to take objectives or blocking a part of the battlefield. So, what do you think of this new list? I'll try to test it this week. C&C are most welcome until then of course! PS : I hope my English will be easy to read :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenfoods Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 A knight in a 1k game is pretty dickish, I gotta say, especially vs a 30k list bringing nothing crazy. The Tau would be hard pressed to bring the kind of firepower necessary to down that, much less a list that has to spend half it's points on troops. I would free up points for a sicaran venator next time that happens. See how he enjoys no templates, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor'Vesh Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hey Kydoimos, I think Frozenfoods makes a key point here - a Knight is a pain in the backside at this points level. As is a relic weilding, bike riding spacemarine chapter master. I think your first list is the best list. In fact I think it is a very good list - similar to the one I want to run at 1000 points, but better! I think the key problem in this game was that you tackled the bike star first, and not the Knight. I think that you could have had four penetrating hits on the Knight in turn one, just by shooting the sicaran's autocannon and dread's Kheres (to a different side arc) due to the rending on their guns. The Knight could only shield one of these facings, meaning you could have severly hurt it right off the bat. You'd probably have got more pens than that with Orth in your tank and the Lascannons, especially if he shielded against the dreadnought. The Whirlwind could have hurt it too, but that's a much longer shot (even though it hits the side armour by default). However, shooting this at the bikes should still have been quite effective (AP3 S8), with barrage giving you the chance to avoid the shielding chapter master. The point is, this unit would have died eventually to small arms and cc - the Knight never would, and once it removed one of either the sicaran or dread, it was much harder to kill. Your second list is by no means bad, but I don't think it solves the main problem you highlighted - mobility. If anything it is marginally less mobile without the dread! Mobility is VERY hard to get into a 1k heresy list, especially with the generalist firepower you have in your list. Give list 1 another try against a more regular list, I'm sure you'll be happy enough with the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprera Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I second everything Kor'Vesh said. And your opponent is a no-lose-little-b**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kydoimos Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hi everyone, and thanks for your answers! @frozenfoods : yeah, I think I'll try a Venator ; not next time since I want to test my list again, but the game after. It's not an easy choice for me since it is only 2 shots, and I'm rather unlucky with the dice, but it should work with Orth's BS 5. @Kor'Vesh : thanks for your comment on the first list. It indeed seemed to me a rather good one, balanced, not too hard and with enough firepower, but I started to doubt after my game. So I'll keep it this way and change my strategy. To be honest I was a bit afraid of the chapter master that's why I concentrated on him. I definitely should have used my squads against the bike squad and aiming at the knight's weakness in the flanks with the dread and the Sicaran. I realise I misused the Whirlwind : I forgot the barrage rule since I remember him using his CM for tanking against my whirlwind shots (it was my first 7th ed. game and my first barrage weapon ever). I'll be more careful next time! I also agree with you when you say the second list is even less mobile than the first. I think I must accept the idea that I'll play a defensive army with the IH, at least at this number of points. It's a great change for me who always played Blood Angels, so the transition isn't easy! But it's also fluffy and that's certainly one of the main reason why I started playing 30K (the model's awesomeness being the other). @capreara (and all) : yeah, he was quite happy with his list :) I won't tell him he's hated on this forum ;) but I think I'll ask him to play a more easy-going list for the next game (after I won against his Knight and his relic CM!!) Thanks again! I'll post a new batrep as soon as the second game will be played in order to debrief more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenfoods Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well, not really hate, I just dislike WAAC plays. Now, everyone has toys they want to use, but if I faced him twice in a row doing that, he'd be staring down two R'varnas and a unit of missilesides. Lol. I can understand though, a lot of 30k is like your X does WHAT? It sounds broken. 12 rending shots? 6 ignore jink shots? It can be frightening to contemplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasteredFury Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraCaptain Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hi there I felt sorry for you. But atleat it must be fair to say :cuss the 25% LoW limit when he abuse its absence. Either onslaugh or the 3 LoW FoC Ceratus Knight Castigator 380 Ceratus Knight Acheron 415 Centurion 50 10 Tactical 150 995pt total Unbeatable army! :p the one knight will be scoring if he is the warlord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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