Redlead Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi guys, I'm wanting to start a 30k Mechanicus force (some awesome mini's), I'll start small to start with then build it up over time, thing is I have no clue where to start with this project apart from buying a few random mini's I like from forge World, I understand alot of information is in the large HH books but right now moneys tight and so wouldn't be able to buy all three, could you tell me which one has the Mech lists and fluff in it (hopefully only one), also Im interested in the new Solar Auxilia mini's and would like to incorporate these into a Mech list if at all possible. All help will be greatly appreciated and hopefully set me off in the right direction. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The most extensive Mechanicum army list is in volume 3, Massacre Extermination. However that doesn't contain all of the weapon rules as things like volkite weapons were introduced in volume 1 and not repeated. The Legion Crusade Army List (LACAL) combined with Massacre Extermination has everything you would need.The slides from Warhammer Fest tell us there will be Mechanicum in volume 4 Conquest and I hold out hope that the weapon and wargear rules will be included in full. If you're also interested in the Solar Auxilia it might be worth waiting a couple of months for that book. Edit: Corrected the name of the book I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I would say that the solar auxillia would make EXCELLENT adsecularii (tech thralls). One pack will give you 20 laslock armed thralls in carapace armour, that's two troop choices already :) they are almost "mech'ed" enough from the get go that no further conversion is required! The guns look archaic enough that they are clearly distinguishable from lasguns, and the troops themselves are all wires and gears and cogs - awesome! And personally, I think they are worlds better than the current FW tech Thralls.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Now I'm not typing on my phone I thought I'd give a fuller answer to the question "Which books do I need to start a Mechanicum army?" The answer depends on which units you want to play with. I've listed the army list options given in each book. In some cases the unit's entry and rules are found elsewhere and I've indicated this where needed. I hope this will be useful to anyone considering joining the Lords of Mars. Ave Deus Mechanicum! Betrayal The Ordo Reductor army list provides just enough to make an allied detachment for a Legion army. Very limited background material. Magos Reductor Calleb Decima Thallax cohort Land raider Avenger strike fighter Warhound titan Reaver titan Massacre The Legio Cybernetica army list. A whole page of background text and some very characterful special rules bring the Legio to life very well. Magos Dominus Enginseer auxilia Myrmidon Secutors Thallax cohort Castellax battle-automata Tech-thralls Vorax battle-automata (rules in Extermination) Primaris-Lightning strike fighter Avenger strike fighter (rules in Betrayal) Storm Eagle gunship (rules in Betrayal) Tarantula sentry guns Thanatar siege-automata (rules in Extermination) Myrmidon Destructors Also includes Mechanicum warlord traits for use with the Legio Cybernetica and Ordo Reductor. Disappointingly many of the Crusade-era weapons and wargear from Betrayal did not have their rules reprinted here. These include all graviton and volkite weapons, archeotech pistols, rad-cleansers, rotor cannons, rad grenades, phosphex bombs, phased plasma fusils, conversion beamers and augury scanners. If you want to use either type of Myrmidon unit and the Magos' more interesting options you need many of their weapon rules from Betrayal or the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List. Extermination The Taghmata Omnissiah army list. Two pages of background and a double-page spread showing the hierarchy of the Mechanicum's various armed forces. I'd waited 20 years for this and although short it doesn't disappoint. Magos Prime Archmagos Inar Satrael Magos Dominus Magos Reductor Calleb Decima (rules in Betrayal) Tech-Priest auxilia Myrmidon Secutors Thallax cohort Castellax battle-automata Tech-thralls Triaros armoured conveyer Ursarax cohort Vorax battle-automata Primaris-Lightning strike fighter (rules in Massacre) Avenger strike fighter (rules in Betrayal) Storm Eagle gunship (rules in Betrayal) Tarantula sentry guns (rules in Massacre) Thanatar siege-automata Krios battle tank Land raider (rules in Betrayal) Myrmidon Destructors Questoris Knight Errant Questoris Knight Paladin Cerastus Knight-Lancer Warhound titan (rules in Betrayal) Reaver titan (rules in Betrayal) Minotaur artillery tank (rules in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse) Falchion super-heavy tank At this point the Ordo Reductor army list is now redundant apart from Calleb Decima's entry. The Legio Cybernetica army list is explicitly mentioned as being a separate and compatible army list. The Vorax and Thanatar automata may be taken in a Legio Cybernetica detachment. Once again the weapon and wargear rules are incomplete, but at least all of the new tech from Massacre is repeated here so you don't have to buy all three books to be complete! Refer to Betrayal or the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List for the missing items. Edit: I missed some of the rules references from Extermination. The list should be correct now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 snip snip snip Super information! thanks! Perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlead Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Great stuff Cactus, really appreciate that thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Also (leveraging Cactus' list) Choose your favorite main dude (depending on what you want to specialize in - e.g. robots, tech priests, tech thralls, breaking forts, etc.) Magos Prime Archmagos Inar Satrael Magos Dominus Magos Reductor Calleb Decima (rules in Betrayal) Then take this guy and his helpers if you want to repair stuff: Tech-Priest auxilia Then you have basically 4 flavors of Troops (you can get a mix or focus on one type; all of which can come in squads): 1. Thralls Tech-thralls - are basically like Imperial Guard (weak blobs with Las equivalents) 2. Thallax chasis - basically like a Tau Crisis Suit (fast moving with Jet / Jump Packs): Thallax cohort - if give them Multi-Meltas; they're good anti-tank as they can get into Melta range easily (you can give them other weapons but they usually have too few shots for their cost to be used against infantry) Ursarax cohort - are good close range against infantry blobs with their special Volkites / Deflagrate 3. Castellax chasis - a bigger MC (slower moving but tougher): Castellax Battle-Automata - if give them Mauler Bolt Cannons and Flamers/Bolters; they're good for ranged anti-light-infantry (they can take other weapons like Multi-Melta but Thallax does it better) Vorax Battle-Automata - also good for ranged anti-light-infantry. Slightly less Str but more shots than Castellax Thanatar Siege-Automata - is a much larger / tough artillery piece good for use against units in cover 4. Myrmidons - Tech Priests for combat (like tougher Terminators but not as good Armor Save): Myrmidon Secutors - can take dual weapons but slightly weaker versions compared to Destructors; good against heavy infantry (as opposed to Castellax which are better against light-infantry) Myrmidon Destructors - can take single weapons but stronger versions compared to Secutors; good against heavy infantry Then you can get a transport: Triaros armoured conveyer And get air support: Primaris-Lightning strike fighter (rules in Massacre) - this has awesome Armorbane anti-tank missiles Avenger strike fighter (rules in Betrayal) Storm Eagle gunship (rules in Betrayal) - take this if you need a flying transport And get tanks: Krios battle tank - comes in two flavors, one of which is excellent against multi-hp armor Land raider (rules in Betrayal) - is the familiar tank transport but can take some weapons not normally available to 40K LRs And super-heavies: Questoris Knight Errant Questoris Knight Paladin - cannon is slightly different from 40K version Cerastus Knight-Lancer - good in melee against another super-heavy Warhound titan (rules in Betrayal) Reaver titan (rules in Betrayal) Minotaur artillery tank (rules in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse) Falchion super-heavy tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlead Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thats great Kilofix, in fact I couldn't of hoped for more info I really appreciate the effort from you two guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronozoah Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I would make a more elaborate post, but the individuals before me have performed admirably as a starting point. All that I will add at this point in time is that you acquire Horus Heresy Book III Extermination (as mentioned, it is the most complete in terms of lore and rules) from Forge World, take into account the advice which has already been posted and create an army list. I would advise the use of Battlescribe. Once you've got a functional list (or even just an idea), post it up for us to devour take a look at. As far as the Solar Auxillia models go, you could always proxy them as Tech-Thralls or make use of the Allies system. What models are you interested in currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Btw, this is my list so far (that I'm still iterating to 3000 pts): Ordo Reductor - more for fluff reasons than anything else Techpriest + Adept + Automata (Enginseer) - for repairs 10 Thrall - just to screen somewhat 6 Thallax - 2 w/Melta - for anti-armor 6 Urasax - for anti-infantry 3 Castellax - All w/Flamer, w/Mauler - for anti-light-infantry 6 Myrmidon Destructors - 3w/Volkite, 3w/Rad - for anti-heavy-infantry 1 Thanatar 1 Krios Venator - w/Fusil - for anti-armor 1 Lightning - for anti-armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlead Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Thats an impressive amount of models Kilofix, do you have a thread on B&C with pic's? I kind of like them all really Chronozoah, but the ones that I have my eye on most are.. Thallax Castella Battle-Automata Thaanatar Siege-Automata I also like the Armoured Conveyor but not sure what troop types use this, and the new Vorax Automata look awesome! As for HQ, out of the two on FW's site I prefer the look of Magos Dominus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronozoah Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 In terms of troops, Thallax Cohorts can use the Triaros. I'm uncertain as to whether or not Tech-Thralls may use them. I must also specify that if you use the more recent sources, Legio Cybernetica and Taghmata (I believe), they have a stipulation which means that you cannot field the Castellax as a mandatory troops option, so you would need to have two Troops choices prepared before you may add the Castellax to your lists. Also, the Magos Dominus model (if memory serves) can be used as a stand-in for a generic Magos HQ (clarification)? A force consisting of the following: - Magos Dominus - Thallax Cohort (3) - Thallax Cohort (3) - Castellax Battle-Automata - Thanatar Siege-Automata Would reach just over 650 points as a base cost. You could quite easily add some upgrades or another Castellax model in to push the total to 750 points, or go wild with the upgrades (or add a couple of Armoured Conveyers for your Thallax units) to reach 1,000 points. I'm told that 1,500 - 2,000 points is a common benchmark for a lot of Warhammer games, but it might be best to start off smaller and test drive the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I also like the Armoured Conveyor but not sure what troop types use this, Not Thallax, as they like to out and about shooting stuff. Probably just put your cheap Tech-Thralls inside of it, hop them out when you need to score. Its an absurdly durable transport though, and its gun is better than many dedicated gunships. the new Vorax Automata look awesome! Sadly their rules are really bad :( but yeah, full marks for awesome modelling In terms of troops, Thallax Cohorts can use the Triaros. I'm uncertain as to whether or not Tech-Thralls may use them. You can buy it for the Thallax, but then Turn 1 load Tech-Thralls into it. Not a bad plan considering Thallax don't need a transport really, and Tech-Thralls are the cheap fodder ideal for a Triaros to drop on an objective. I must also specify that if you use the more recent sources, Legio Cybernetica and Taghmata (I believe), they have a stipulation which means that you cannot field the Castellax as a mandatory troops option, so you would need to have two Troops choices prepared before you may add the Castellax to your lists. Nah it goes like this; - Legio Cybernetica: Tech-Thralls are Support squads (have to take mandatory Troops first before taking them), Castellax are just normal Troops - Taghmata: Tech-Thralls are normal Troops, Castellax are Support You can ally them with eachother anyway, so it hardly matters. Also, the Magos Dominus model (if memory serves) can be used as a stand-in for a generic Magos HQ (clarification)? You can use a Tech-Marine or Enginseer if you want, provided you model the appropriate gear on him for WYSIWYG purposes. I'm told that 1,500 - 2,000 points is a common benchmark for a lot of Warhammer games, but it might be best to start off smaller and test drive the army. Yeah that's about right. 1850 is becoming a fairly common point level for competitive games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Standing Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 At the Warhammer Fest the FW guys made a point that the Ordo Reductor list was redundant and no longer "official" or supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 At the Warhammer Fest the FW guys made a point that the Ordo Reductor list was redundant and no longer "official" or supported. Yikes - I liked Caleb Decima from HH1. More for fluff reasons than anything else. Even though he is somewhat 'underpowered' compared to what's available from HH3. Also, to Thrasius, don't have my Ad Mech painted yet (I'm saving them for next year's ETL - shhh...) but I'll try to get some pics of them unpainted when I get back from travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronozoah Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I have looked over the rules again, and yes - Tech-Thralls can't be taken as mandatory Troops in the Legio Cybernetica list, and Castellax can't be taken as mandatory Troops in the Taghmata force. Thanks for the clarifications, Darius. Personally, I wouldn't advise using the Triaros Armoured Conveyer for Thallax units, either. Those units are already mobile and durable enough so you should prioritize other units for these transports. Tech-Thralls can be used as cheap objective campers or as cheap tar-pits (well, as cheap as the Mechanicum can get at present, anyway). Most of our units are far too expensive to simply leave on backfield objectives (unless you've equipped them to be able to 'snipe' effectively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 At the Warhammer Fest the FW guys made a point that the Ordo Reductor list was redundant and no longer "official" or supported. Kek. No one uses it anyway. Yikes - I liked Caleb Decima from HH1. More for fluff reasons than anything else. Even though he is somewhat 'underpowered' compared to what's available from HH3. He's still a valid HQ choice for Legio Cybernetica or Taghmata forces. He's just so terribly underpowered compared to even a generic Magos Prime that you have almost no reason to use him. Legio Cybernetica even has rules for Ordo Reductor Magos anyway (the little box at the bottom, basically you can get phosphex bombs and demo-charges, plus Tank Hunters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 At the Warhammer Fest the FW guys made a point that the Ordo Reductor list was redundant and no longer "official" or supported. If only they had rolled the Basilisk/Medusa Heavy Support option from that list into the Taghmata list, too. Would love to include some (phosphex shelled) Medusas in a Reductor-themed list. Alongside a pair of Minotaurs & some Thanatars, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 If only they had rolled the Basilisk/Medusa Heavy Support option from that list into the Taghmata list, too. Would love to include some (phosphex shelled) Medusas in a Reductor-themed list. Alongside a pair of Minotaurs & some Thanatars, of course. It's possible they'll re-emerge in a later Ordo Reductor list, or a Siege army variant of Taghmata. Or we'll just get a robot that fires phosphex shells. Mind you, phosphex is pretty evil, I can see why they'd restrict access to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It's possible they'll re-emerge in a later Ordo Reductor list, or a Siege army variant of Taghmata. Or we'll just get a robot that fires phosphex shells. Mind you, phosphex is pretty evil, I can see why they'd restrict access to it. Ordo Reductor Thanatars w/phosphex shells in place of plasma mortars would be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Ordo Reductor Thanatars w/phosphex shells in place of plasma mortars would be fun! Oh Throne. Can you imagine the outpouring of tears from Marine players if we got that? Thanatar is already strong as hell, no reason to make it banned from tourneys now ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I still want some sort of phosphex launcher for infantry. Maybe it can only be taken if you have an Ordinator Mafia Prime. Yes, I so love phosphex, and I love the Ordo Reductor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I still want some sort of phosphex launcher for infantry. Maybe it can only be taken if you have an Ordinator Mafia Prime. Yes, I so love phosphex, and I love the Ordo Reductor. Yeah on Thallax or Myrmidons I'd kill for that. Anything to replace the mediocre rad-flamer option you'll literally never use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlead Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi guys well it's been a while since I posted on this thread and also bought any miniatures well Mechanicum anyway, this has changed and I've put in a small order at FW for Magos Dominus, Titan Tech-Priest and the Thallax bundle (9 mini's) and cant wait so I can get cracking. I've still not bought HH book three yet tut tut but have been trying to build a list using Battlescribe which I though I would run by you guys, the list consists of the models I like so not that sure of how they may play (well or not) on the field. I'm looking to get to 1850pts, this list falls short of that at 1765, please feel free to comment advise add or delete as you see fit, bit new you see and need the help ;) HQ Magos Dominus Elite Tech-Priest Auxillia Troops 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax (all bare bones) 3x Castellax, with Darkfire Cannons, 2x Flamers(each) Fast Attack 3x Vorax Class Battle-Automata Heavy Support Thanatar Siege-Automata, Enhanced Targeting Array. I love the look of the Thallax miniatures and so have quite a few in the list as you can see, I already own nine of them (in the post) and are willing to let a few go from the list but still like the idear of fielding lots, not sure if this is a good plan or not. I've left the HQ with no upgrades as to be frank not sure whats best for him in a list like this (sorry really is my first toe into HH and mechanicum), could you advise. I hear that the Vorax battle automata's are pants and not worth their points but do you know guys I really like the look of them, how would you go about making them less dead wood in the list, upgrades that make them better maybe. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Magos Dominus Look, I'm gonna ask, how keen are you on Cybertheurgy? If its your jam, then by all means, take Mr Roboto. On the other hand, you could roll with a Magos or Arch-Magos. He can be attached to squads, and he has a lot more wargear and options, plus his faction choice (Lachrimallus, Myrmidon etc). As a cheap secondary he's okay too. But I'd really consider an Arch-Magos in larger games. Can be a real asset, and he's not as easily assassinated. Tech-Priest Auxillia People generally either take them with guns or servo-arms. Ie, they're either as cheap fire support, or for repairing your robots as they lose wounds. Play around with the options, you can make some pretty evil fire support on the cheap with them. Not as good as Destructors mind you, but cheap though. 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax 3x Thallax Okay first of all, everytime you take a Thallax unit, you pay 15pts for no reason (they don't have a squad leader so its a bit mystifying why they're 135 instead of being 120). So, to save some points for upgrades, I'd take them as 6-man cohorts. That's enough wounds to be a problem, and enough for two special weapons per squad. Multi-melta, plasma fusil and photon thruster are the top picks. Multi-laser and rad flamer are trash. I'd also drop your Thallax count down to 2 squads of 6-man. You don't need more than 12 in most lists. 3x Castellax, with Darkfire Cannons, 2x Flamers(each) Drop the flamers, make them solos, and give them Enhanced Targeting Arrays instead of flamers. If they're solo, you can dilute enemy firepower a lot more easily, and increase the chance of wastage. In a single big blob, they're much easier to focus dead. Also, you can't attach Magos to them anymore due to 7th edition rules, so that combo is dead. Splitting them up also means you can split up your firepower at will, and charge different things. 3x Vorax Class Battle-Automata They're really pretty...but a bunch of lasgun shots and a single lightning gun/worst rad flamer do not make them good, or even decent. Also, in melee they're pathetically bad, and they lack both Atomic Reactors (so no 5+ at range, 6+ in melee) and 3+ armour (they only have 4+). They are really bad, and a design mistake, because someone at FW went nuts when they gave them Scout. Drop them and take Ursarax with powerfists instead. Thanatar Siege-Automata, Enhanced Targeting Array. Nice. Also consider Paragon of Metal on him, it makes him stupidly hard to kill, and Rampage fixes his 2A issue in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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