WarriorFish's Sunder CSM

[WarriorFish]

You'll note no close up pictures of the Defiler - this is intentional until I get the new varnish so I can do the transfers Next game was a different affair; aside from being a different Legion who needed showing who's boss it was an "experimental" list from a returning hobbyist after some time out. Being almost entirely Terminators it was one of those lists I call the "win big, or lose bigger" ones...

Sunder

Hidden Content

+++ Daemon Engines 1000pts (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [5CP, 998pts] +++

Legion: Emperor's Children

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour [100pts]: 2. Flames of Spite, Intoxicating Elixir, 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord

Master of Executions [65pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Raiment Revulsive

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [55pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 5x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 5x Autogun
. 3x Chaos Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 3x Autopistol, 3x Brutal assault weapon
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer
. Cultist Champion: Brutal assault weapon and Autopistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Meltagun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Meltagun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Autocannon
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [43pts]: Combi-bolter, Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

Maulerfiend [140pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Slaanesh

World Eaters

Hidden Content

Lord in TDA

6x Termies

6x Termies

6x Termies

8x Raptors

8x Warptalons

Deployment

As all I knew was the list was "different" I start deploying as normal, but as unit after unit is in reserve I see what's going on and deploy to await their arrival... With there being little my Troops can probably do before their arrival my hope is that they can at least protect the shrimps so they can do the killing and winning. With some Raptors deployed in hiding opposite there'll be nothing to do but wait anyway!

Turn 1

I can't do anything other than get a crafty bit of Defiler shooting at the Raptors I can spy, so I hold my ground...

Turn 2

Here is when it happens of course. Also where it gets interesting A large number of forces arrive to surround mine, and while they're almost almost entirely with the basic weaponry that's not a match up I'm too keen for! The squad arriving on my right flank has no trouble evaporating the Cultists, and I lose a few Marines from the centre combat CSM squad. A pretty light shooting phase at least but that's not what I'm worried about

Fortunately the dice gods show their favour - not a single charge can succeed! As I said at the time, this was probably the game's decider. It doesn't take a genius to move all my forces up and away from the right squad which is now well out of charging range. With my forces using their numbers to pile on the pressure it's a brutal turn for the WE. My Lord makes a sprint of an 11" charge to reach the Warptalons (thanks to Honour the Prince, easily one of my favourite Stratagems!). He almost wipes the squad by himself.

The Defiler and bolter CSM squad can batter down their opponents and just squeeze the last wound in, without Stratagem support the Maulershrimp struggles a bit but does good enough work. The reduced CSM assault squad have no trouble shooting and cutting down the remaining Raptors.

Turn 3

It's not looking good for the WE, as the failure to secure any charges has given the Sunder free reign and they made it count. It's not all over just yet though... but when the Terminator Lord charges my CSM squad and for Overwatch to have the melta wound and take him out in one shot it very much is. Presumably the dice gods felt bad for all the 1s to wound my melta had the rest of the day. Another opponent concedes to give the Sunder victory!

This one was a bit less earned It was a big gamble that really didn't pay off. I think the list could have been better also, but you make do with what you have with an aged collection and no doubt the dice gods punished the Warptalons for not being painted It was good to get another larger game in, as well as see the Defiler perform well. The Executioner did nothing at all (he's standing with the tank traps looking disappointed), but he wasn't needed.

Though I have done my fair share of "this list will either be great... or terrible" it's best reserved for more regular gaming when you only have a few weeks to wait before trying again with a more sensible list - but hopefully such times are soon to return I am certainly looking forward to them!

[Arkaniss]

Always nice to see some batreps, especially these days as they are few and far between! Must have felt nice to get those models painted onto the table and for victories too :tu:

 

Yes I've done my fair share of offbeat lists and going heavy with Terminators is always risky. It does look fantastic on the table top though and every now and then you even win a game :lol: I definitely need to get my own Executioner I keep hearing good things.

[Tallarn Commander]

Thanks for the batrep. It looks like it was a fun game.

 

I've found that in lower points games my World Eaters perform better just taking 2-3 Zerker Squads in Rhinos. The fancier stuff is best left for higher points games. Boys before toys and all that. :)

[WarriorFish]

Same here, as it happens there was another list used with Zerkers and they were brutal. Having a line troop be so capable in combat is potent, even after weathering hefty shooting on the way in they still did a number on opponents!

[Angel of Death]

ha ha :P pretty funny that no charge succeeded. no skill, just luck. nah jk :P

ive found cultists to be pretty good units for 'raise the banner' stratagem.

like having a nice squad of 5 cultis that hold an objective in a corner of the map where the enemy

cant intercept and deal with them. 1 point each turn is a pretty steady points generator. :)

[WarriorFish]

Don't cultists come in squads of 10 as the minimum? Luck is always involved somewhere and the dice gods can be fickle indeed, though there is a degree of certainty for an army that isn't fully painted I've found... Not that I need any more reasons to want to field fully painted armies only ;)

 

With my new hobby supplies I've resumed the final steps for the Defiler, I varnished it over my lunch break ready to apply some transfers Hopefully this doesn't pull me back in to more Sunder additions, I don't think Tzeentch would forgive me (or my hobby desk)

[WarriorFish]

The Defiler suffered a bit, being as it was at the final step and transfers not being something that crops up often so it got left behind but that's now corrected:

There are only so many Chaos star and Slaaneshi transfers to use, so best not to try and fill all the space. Less is more sometimes, even for Slaanesh Good to get it over the line, and I don't feel a need to jump in to my CSM (yet?) - hope remains for my Rubrics which I really need to get cracking on

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Its gorgeous - I wish it great success in battle!  I think the transfers are a great touch - I especially like them when you put them around a hard edge.  Are the feet black?

 

The defiler sure is a weird looking beast, though.

[WarriorFish]

It was one of the larger models for some time, but still looks impressive now :) It would look quite different if it was made now with the more organic addition to Daemon Engines, the technology is almost night and day if you compare the detail to something like the Venomcrawler. The feet claws are metallic like the claws, they look darker due to the lighting and picture :P

 

Having transfers off centre helps a lot for Chaos I think as it fits with the less structured look they have compared to loyalists. It's a good way to look a bit more different to the more orderly CSM too, and standing out is very Slaaneshi as we well know :lol:

[battle captain corpus]

Looks very cool now with the transfers on! Makes a nice “Daddy” to the other daemon engines!

 

BCC

[WarriorFish]

Back with another batrep, we are adjusting to 9th stuff as we go this time using the table sizes which at 1000pts felt a bit small.

The Sunder

Hidden Content

+++ All Daemon Engines 1000pts (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [5CP, 1,000pts] +++

Detachment Command Cost

Legion: Emperor's Children

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [90pts]: 2. Intoxicating Musk, Intoxicating Elixir, 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord

Master of Executions [65pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Raiment Revulsive

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [55pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 5x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 5x Autogun
. 3x Chaos Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 3x Autopistol, 3x Brutal assault weapon
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer
. Cultist Champion: Brutal assault weapon and Autopistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Meltagun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Meltagun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [70pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Astartes chainsword, Bolt pistol
. 4x Marine w/ boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [140pts]: Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

Maulerfiend [140pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Slaanesh

Venomcrawler [110pts]: Mark of Slaanesh

Iron Warriors

Hidden Content

Apostle

Warpsmith

10x CSM x3

- plasma

- heavy bolter

5x Termies

- bolters

5x Termies

- bolters

Deployment

With a triangular deployment (from corner to halfway point) and two objectives in the centre to lay claim to (5VP each, plus 5VP for having more than your opponent) there's not really much to be done other than line up to dash for them. All the more so for the limited room, the Spidershrimp having to hold back a bit.

I am feeling like my list has a good chance here, as theoretically if I can get up the board into melee I should be ok to keep them busy there and have some units capping objectives (5 man bolter squad and Cultists especially). That said, there is the Termies to worry about but if I'm quick and lucky I should be able to build a VP lead and keep things locked in combat where I should be mostly having the advantage. That's the plan at least

Turn 1

I give my opponent first turn, hoping that his forces are a bit too far away to bring too much fire power against me and knowing that there's no room for Termies behind my lines (though this is the limited table space and number of units rather than any plan of mine). It works well as I lose some Cultists and a few Marines but nothing major and the Defiler will regenerate the lost wound.

I have little shooting of note so advance most of my army up to close ready for charging next turn. The Spidershrimp shoots and fails miserably (snake eyes for wounds) but the Defiler does a bit better. So neither side can boast much of a first turn, but I am closer ready for some charges so one way or another the next turn will probably be crucial.

Turn 2

My opponent moves up to shoot, but doesn't call in the Terminators. It's not a great shooting phase so I get off quite lightly thanks to good armour saves (even the Cultist survived!). This sets me up to build the momentum I need so I just need to convert that.

The Cultists score my first VPs and hang back to continue as the rest of my army moves up to shoot and charge. Again the Spidershrimp has no room to help much but is a good rear guard for when the Termies turn up. My Executioner charges the Apostle and two CSM squads to ensure he can reach and rolls great, with some failed 4++ that's the start of an excellent combat phase. The Defiler struggles a bit but with how well everything else goes it's not a concern.

The game is in my favour now as my forces are in ascendancy, so it should be mine to lose.

Turn 3

The Terminators turn up and the left CCW squad is badly reduced, only the Champion surviving after morale. The Executioner takes some hits but not enough to be worried. Fortunately only one can make it into combat, and wipe the bolter squad. Yjun can heroically intervene to cause some damage and the Warpsmith is taken out by the Maulershrimp. The Defiler can finish off the CSM after the Executioner does his thing.

From here I can move up my forces to shoot and engage. The top Terminators take some bad hits from good shooting (better late than never) and the bottom squad is badly outnumbered especially with the Defiler and Spidershrimp. After losing the bottom squad in combat my opponent concedes to complete a convincing win!

Overall, I'm not convinced about the smaller table size. Likely classic GW in a plaster solution to a bigger problem, as much as combat armies could do with some help this is a basic solution. There's no room for manoeuvre and units coming in from reserve have a hard time finding space. This is before you get to horde armies and the lack of space for them. The other list I had lined up had Termies and Raptors in, aside from the daemon engines being a good option against my opponent it was all the more so if I'd have struggled to find room to drop them in.

Might be something to house rule in some way, or go back to the full table will need to think about it some more. Otherwise my army performed well, but these are mostly my core units and I know what I'm doing with them (would hope so after so long ), the Executioner was again excellent I think this might have been his first official Warlord too? As much as I love my daemon engines they sorely need that 3+ to hit as you are only a few rolls away from them doing little to nothing a turn...

Edited October 10, 2021 by WarriorFish
Army lists

[Special Officer Doofy]

My gaming group stayed at 6x4 for 2k games for two reasons. One, we like bigger boards, just add more terrain to even out the shooting and melee while still allowing board room for deep strikes and two, we all have a bunch of expensive 6x4 mats we would like to keep using instead of taping portions off or getting new mats.

 

I have a question about your army. You play as emperors children (duh) and use basic marines as troops. When/if the codex for emperors children drops, both DG and TS don't let you use basic marines and make you use the cult marines as the troop. What is your plan for when/if that happens? Will you play as one of the other Legions rules wise with a slaanesh spin or just replace the marines with noise marines? I came back into the hobby in 8th after a rather long break as DG so they were already fleshed out. I read some people had DG armies prior with units like bikers that they are unable to use now and some people were not happy about that. Just curious what your thoughts were as my EC and WE brothers will (hopefully) be getting codexes soon and be in a similar situation.

[Tallarn Commander]

Thanks for the fun batrep. Both armies looked great! Were the Iron Warrior Terminators armed with combi-bolters and chainaxes? Or did they have some chainfists in the squads so as to threaten your Daemon Engines?

 

Also, Were you able to use Daemonforge and, if so, which Daemon Engine(s) did you choose to buff?

 

Yes, I too am not a big fan of the smaller board size. Sadly, all the gaming stores around here have gone to smaller board size.

[WarriorFish]

The Termies had a mix of weapons, including chainfists, so were the heavy hitters. Should have come down turn 2 where they could have done more I reckon. I'm always using Daemonforge, it's by far the most used of Stratagems for me I spread it around the engines depending on which needs the help more, or I need it to deliver that turn. The Defiler has less attacks so I tend to use it more on the Maulershrimp but he did his work early here so I swapped to using it on the Defiler after the first round of combat. The Spidershrimp is more of a supporting unit so there's less to gain from the Stratagem - he doesn't get a look in...

 

As for the (eventual) EC codex I'm not sure what I'm doing - it depends on how it goes. I'd like to use it and continue with the EC theme, but I don't want to lose access to models I have painted up. That would probably be a deal breaker, the Lord Disco sits in his box still because I'm not sure which way it'll go EC don't have the background as Sons do for example, and Noise Marines don't fit with the close combat angle - but any and all of this is subject to change as GW can do what they like in adding units and retcons etc. I always thought CSM were a better fit for the supplement model but I'm not sure how likely that could ever be.

 

For the table size I think we'll try it out a bit more and see how it feels. It's no hardship to go back to the 6x4 if all else fails - got the table and mats after all Maybe I should make the most of combat armies getting their chance to shine

[TrawlingCleaner]

Great write up WF! It's always a great feeling to get 2 fully painted armies on the board and duke it out

A shame to see the Iron Warriors lose (No bias towards Perty's boys here  ) but a fantastic result for the Sunder. I've yet to run an Executioner but it looks like I might need to paint mine up!

[WarriorFish]

He's a great opportunity to make your own model - only needs a big axe (or counts as) and he's pretty dangerous. Bit of a glass cannon though. I've been using the Raiment Revulsive EC relic on him which gives him re-rolls to hit, wound, and charge it really helps him carve his way through things :)

[WarriorFish]

Things aren't all quiet on the CSM front - they can get some table time in when they're not on my hobby desk 1250pts up against a themed BA list:

Sunder

Hidden Content

+++ Sunder 1250 Dec21 (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [11CP, 1,250pts] +++

+ Stratagems +

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [90pts]: 2. Intoxicating Musk, Intoxicating Elixir, 2x Lightning Claw, Mark of Slaanesh, Warlord

Dark Apostle [80pts]: Benediction of Darkness, Blissful Devotion, Mark of Slaanesh

Master of Executions [65pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Raiment Revulsive

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Meltagun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Plasma pistol, Power sword
. 7x Marine w/ chainsword: 7x Astartes chainsword, 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ plasma pistol: Astartes chainsword, Plasma pistol

Chaos Space Marines [160pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Astartes chainsword, Boltgun
. 7x Marine w/ boltgun: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Autocannon
. Marine w/ heavy or special weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Helbrute [135pts]: Combi-bolter, Helbrute fist, Mark of Slaanesh, Twin lascannon

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [140pts]: Defiler scourge, Mark of Slaanesh, Reaper autocannon

Maulerfiend [140pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Slaanesh

Venomcrawler [110pts]: Mark of Slaanesh

Blood Angels

Hidden Content

Dante

Sanguinor

Assault Marines

Vanguard

Sanguinary Guard

Stormhawk Interceptor

The thing with such themed lists is that they tend to veer to the extremes in effectiveness, and I really wasn't sure which way this could go. It was also unusual to face an army more interested in engaging than me so I reasoned that it would come down to positioning and who can get a good one without delaying or sacrificing too much to lose it. That, and how well my Daemon Engines and characters can perform (but that is often the case?). This was especially so up against 2W Marines as my CSM would suffer twice the attrition, but good attacks and more importantly the Daemon Engine's multiple Damage could turn that around.

Deployment

Accordingly both sides are lining up for the starting pistol, though I try to position my bolter squad to cover any advance if I can't move up the table fast enough. At least my opponent has less long ranged weapons than me (which is saying something) so going second isn't a concern.

The plan is to have the CSM do what they can, but mostly try and allow the engines to be the ones doing the charging. With the new DttFE in my pocket I'm hoping the CSM can give a good account of themselves though.

Turn 1

The BA move up, and the Interceptor can take down a few CCW Marines but the Maulershrimp avoids harm (for once) - a decent start, though such a list was always going to be doing the real work in combat of course.

I would love to handle the golden opponents but they're not viable targets, but I can throw some reasonable fire at the Assault Marines. For the first time the HB and AC do sterling work and put their D2 to good use! I also use Fire Frenzy for the first time against the Interceptor, but the Dreadbrute fails with 1s aplenty... Combat fares better though as the Maulershrimp can bound into combat, and a cheeky 12" charge from the left CCW squad (Honour the Prince is a great ace up your sleeve) means I have every expectation to win that combat.

As a bonus the Spidershrimp can reach the Vanguard though the right CSM can't, but I reason this might be for the best to allow them to help out elsewhere. Combat goes very well with Daemon Forge (as ever) helping a lot, and the Assault Marines are taken out. Sadly the lack of Daemon Forge elsewhere is telling as the Spidershrimp whiffs badly. The Sanguinor Heroic Interventioned in but could only plink a couple of wounds off thanks to more good saves (this is a nice difference to the Maulershrimp's usual saves!).

Turn 2

It's not all good news of course, as the Vanguard can hit back plenty enough in my turn, so with only four wounds left the Spidershrimp is likely not long for this world. With the Sanguinary Guard bundling in along with Dante combat goes much as can be expected. The Maulershrimp is battered down and joins the Spidershrimp in death, and most of the CSM squad is lost though crucially they can hold on.

This isn't good news as I was relying on the engines to do a bit more, but I still have plenty more to move up so if I can make some good charges I am in a position to build a game winning turn. This is where the support network comes in handy - the Raiment Revulsive gives the Executioner a re-roll on the charge, Honour the Prince can let you make an informed decision to convert a charge, and of course there's the standard Command Point re-roll.

Shooting is respectable, but it is only a prelude to the main dish. The Executioner barrels into Dante, hoping to take his biggest kill yet, joined by the Defiler. The right CSM squad can comfortably engage the Vanguard so I'm in position to make that game winning turn...

Unfortunately it doesn't start off great, as while the Executioner rolls great he can only inflict a single Mortal Wound on Dante - his Iron Halo sees off all else I had wanted to send the Defiler's attacks against the Sanguinary Guard but Dante is far too dangerous to be allowed any opportunity so with Daemon Forge (naturally) to help he can see the job done. The further compound a good turn the CSM can take down the Vanguard so while it wasn't the turn I was hoping for it was still great and put me in a strong position.

Turn 3

As expected, the Sanguinary Guard are no push overs, having finished off the CSM squad last turn they turn to the Defiler and he joins his brothers back in the warp. Unfortunate, but it makes for a good result overall as I can line up charges from the CSM squad and all my HQs who have no trouble finishing the job. Yjun in particular got 10 attacks in thanks to DttFE! They didn't convert very well sadly but there was plenty more attacks so victory was only a matter of when at this stage.

Bit of an odd game, but so it goes with such heavily themed lists - in the end I think it was a poor match up, as much as things could always go the other way I'd be protecting/angling my engines to do their multiple Damage work. Plus it was probably a mistake to get bogged down in the centre melee especially with such an expensive/elite army that would always be outnumbered. The Sanguinary Guard are very mean but like anything when exposed and surrounded that can only go so far.

The Daemon Engines did the usual job - which is to say nothing to write home about without Daemon Forge - and the Executioner missed his mark, but it felt like a team effort so it wasn't an issue. A good early charging helped set me up with the initiative which likely helped especially in taking out the Assault Marines before they could do anything. The Dread was a disappointment I was looking forward to getting him into a game again but now I remember why he got dropped :lol:

Was good to game as always, but I'm feeling ready for a new CSM codex now. We shall see what 2023 brings...

[Verbal Underbelly]

Sounds like an interesting game. It's really hard playing against 2W marines, when we're still on one. Feeling like two different games... I've not been able to win with my 8th codex so far. Yet I haven't lost a game playing as Death Guard.

 

I'm also looking forward to a new chaos codex.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, now I've got a few games with my Sons in it really is like night and day. The only saving grace is that 1W Marines have relatively more output, so if you can get stuck in you can make it count especially with multiple damage weapons. It may have been a different story were my opponent's list not geared for combat but mostly I'm looking forward to feeling like Marines have some durability in an ever more lethal game. It helps that we don't play too competitively.

 

I know we talk about 2W a lot as it's the biggest and easiest difference marker, but there is much more to be done in terms of flavour. Icons and marks - though the change to DttFE has changed this for Slaanesh, but this is also a very encouraging sign for what's to come so I'm feeling quietly optimistic :) I'd like to get back to my CSM but I'm busy elsewhere and it feels like the codex is some sort of threshold event I need to bump them up the list.

[Tallarn Commander]

Looks like it was a fun game. Thanks for the batrep.

 

The new Death to the False Emperor, Daemonforge, Raiment, and Honor the Prince did yeoman's work for your army!

 

In my experience, Sanguinary Guard remind me of most Chaos assault units in that they are glass cannons. They hit like a brick but these days 2 wounds and a 2+ save do not protect them too much. 

[WarriorFish]

With Psychic Awakening we have some good tools (though I'm not sure why there appears to be one that already exists?). The Raiment is not "special" in that it's re-rolls and not anything unique, but it really works for a character who needs to be in combat. I took it on the Executioner a while ago as an experiment and I really like it, while there is some overlap with his rules I figured he didn't always get the chance to tackle characters so giving him the tools to blitz through elite infantry etc goes far.

 

Honour the Prince is a favourite though I don't always use it, but that's the advantage in that you can save it for when you need it Without Daemonforge I wonder if I might struggle to get my Daemon Engines in, as it makes such a difference to their effectiveness - but the upcoming 3+ to hit on them will help them so I'm wondering if others may be joining me in fielding them more with the new codex?

 

That is the thing that lurks in the back of my mind on 2W Marines, in that D2 weaponry seems quite common? My HB and AC squad had their best game not just as the rolling did well for once, but that D2 made a huge difference. At least it will be mitigated by having all Marines on two, as well as how I field a lot of Marines (albeit more expensive, but that probably means less other units for me).

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, I think the 2 wounds generally won't matter much. There was a discussion of this in the WE forum. There the consensus was that 2 wounds will really help against mortal wounds. So that's something.

 

I do love my Daemon Engines! I think the last time I ran 2,000 points of CSM without a Daemon Engine was January of 2019. :) I agree that the 3+ will mean they are a bit less reliant on Daemonforge. I often run 2 Daemon Engines and if both manage to reach the enemy the un-daemonforged one is a bit less killy.

[WarriorFish]

I don't always see MWs, or at least directed against my Troops but there will still be plenty of small arms so the extra wound will still matter :) I wonder if the new codex and the better engines might be the straw for me to get that Heldrake...

[WarriorFish]

Back again, as part of the current Chaos vs Eldar painting event I've finally got round to assembling that second Dreadbrute:

I've filled the letters on the interior of the right arm also once the last tidying up is done I can get to priming, work will start next week After working on my Daemons lately it's nice to come back to my Marines especially as we've been hearing lots of rumourings and the like.

Speaking of waiting projects; I've got some more bits that should give me all I need for my Chosen so they will likely be on the hobby desk sooner or later too

[Tallarn Commander]

Looks like the Dread will be a fun project. I look forward to seeing it get painted up.