GreyCrow Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hey guys, the title says it all ! A few threads here gave me ideas that both seem competitive and that I really like, but they would force me to drop the Stormtalon as my main source of anti-air, and I'm considering other options. So far, I can see 4 sources of anti-air in the Heavy Support slot : - Stalkers - Hunters - Devastators with flakk missiles - Stormraven Which heavy support choice do you think would work best against both air targets and ground targets, in terms of average performances ? The idea is looking for a unit that is effective against air targets but that can still contribute to the ground effort when no air targets are around. I really don't believe the Stalkers/Hunters have great performance for non skimmers non fliers targets, but then again I have no experience with them so far. Paying 70 to 150 points in ground forces that will have to snap shoot at other ground forces seem like an aberration to me, but I'm probably wrong. Thanks for the help guys, cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Of the list provided, the Storm Raven is clearly the best against both flyers and ground targets. The raven has the strongest weapons, highest rate of fire, it doesn't have snap fire limitations, and its the toughest. It is also the most expensive base, so there's that to consider too. However. its worth every point ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Of the list provided, the Storm Raven is clearly the best against both flyers and ground targets. The raven has the strongest weapons, highest rate of fire, it doesn't have snap fire limitations, and its the toughest. It is also the most expensive base, so there's that to consider too. However. its worth every point Yeah, that seemed a given when looking at the stats... How would you gear him in a dual air/ground support ? Multi-melta/assault cannon ? Now that you can shoot the 4 Stormstrike missiles at once since 7th edition, taking an anti personnel weapon becomes interesting... The only gripe I have with taking the Stormraven is that I'm 20 points short in my 2000pts list, and I'd hate to have to find them somewhere else :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There's also the Contemptor Mortis but that's an FW / IA unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 There's another way to look at it. Rather than try to find a unit that is effective at both, consider ones that are effective anti-air but don't bite into your point budget. Stalkers & Hunters are pretty cheap -- less than 100 points -- so the points you're spending on them isn't leaving a giant gap in your capabilities. You take a loss in adaptability, sure, but it's an extremely small loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTitan117 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The Stormraven provides a fantastic anti air option while retaining the flexibility to deal with other threats around the battlefield. They can also act as a transport with fantastic defensive capabilities. It is an all around great performer which cannot be ignored. I can understand not wanting to remove points from elsewhere in the list but it is simply a balancing act. I have found that if I could fit another flying threat to my opponent that I would do what I had to to make that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The raven is quite expensive for 3 HPs that will be on the table turn 2 in a best case scenario. The new improved jink has also really made a dent in the effectiveness of the raven, it doesn't quite bite like it used to do. There are many interesting anti air options from FW, but if you want to stay with the codex a hunter or two could be great addition. I miss a lot, so I like the savant lock rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Storm Talon then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Chaos... uh. The red stick or kitty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toldavf Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Sicarian with the legacy of sarosh. Sure you only get one shot but no jink and tank hunter on a twin linked gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Chaos... uh. The red stick or kitty? Forge fiends. I've been on the wrong end of those quite a few times. Also, chaos now has access to all the cool relic vehicles loyalists get, updated rules on your hell flyers, and access to traitor guard anti air. Chaos shouldn't be worried about fliers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Thanks for the replies everyone :) So far, I am leaning more towards a Stormraven than anything else, but I wanted to have your insights as I've never ran one about a couple of quick questions. In 1500 points games, the Stormraven would be my sole source of anti-air and I have no plans to use its transport capacity. By no plans I mean that I don't have a purpose-built unit to go in the Raven, although I could use the Raven as a delivery means for units that already have dedicated transports to start with, if that's the most appropriate tactical response (aka keeping them for Turn 3 and using the Raven to go far deep in enemy lines if I'm going in a Vanguard Strike deployment for instance). But no planning to use the Stormraven as a dedicated delivery unit. The loadout I had in mind was Multi-Melta/Lascannon and the Stormstrikes missiles that come stock obviously. Do you think that at 1500 points this provides with a decent anti-air capability if ran alone ? I am definitely not going to aim for air superiority with a single Stormraven obviously, but does that loadout have the capability to destroy fliers relatively reliably, or scare them enough to Jink and reduce their firepower in the next turn, or even draw airborne firepower away from my ground forces (which also works as anti-air in my humble opinion). At 1850 points, do you think that same Stormraven alone would still fit the Anti-Air role or would it be not enough/not survivable enough and needing another flier. The idea was that at 1850 points I will be able to run either a kitted support Dreadnought in the Stormraven and thus benefit from the transport capacity. Alternatively, thanks to my 2 HQs and an extra Troops choices, I will be able to have 2 combined arms detachments at that point level and be able to put my Stormtalon back in the list giving extra anti-air and an escort for the Stormraven. Finally, if going for the Stormtalon at 1850, for 2000 points is it better to add another Stormtalon and go with the Stormwing formation or is it overkill and a Dreadnought might be more appropriate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Chaos... uh. The red stick or kitty? Forge fiends. I've been on the wrong end of those quite a few times. Also, chaos now has access to all the cool relic vehicles loyalists get, updated rules on your hell flyers, and access to traitor guard anti air. Chaos shouldn't be worried about fliers at all. I'm not so keen on :cuss but the Fire Raptor is fairly ballin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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