Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The good ol' Power Armour. Making an SM what he really is. And a Space Wolf obviously the best of them ;) It offers protection and enhances movement as well as strength and as far as I know, it is completely enclosed. Here is my question. Is the complete enclosure mandatory? For example, I like to use Chaos Warriors from WHFB as my SW. One of the reasons is that they do not wear this universal plate you find on marines. You occasionally find chainmail or even leather. I wonder if that sort of gear would be feasible on a SW when they want to be lighter on horseback or when tracking opposition unnoticed (I do not use scouts in my Company), given that he currently operates in an environment that would allow that sort of gear and given that the essential part of a Power Armour to enhance the SM are still there? As always, feedback is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Well, I can imagine it being feasible, if the situation called for it. Would it still be called 'power armour'? Dunno. But I don't think that necessarily matters from a game perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Bearing in mind we Space Wolves often dont wear a helmet - which let's face it is unprotecting the most dangerous part of the body to get hit in - I think it is fine :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Some old fluff had that covered in sense of some sort of protection field if iam not mistaken. Failing that just read up on the Ragnar books, if Ragnar can dodge a bullet from one of those Assassins (who are prett good shooters) than how will a Guardsmen be able to hit a Spacewolf? Or there is the Loagn option, Adamantium skeleton and increased healing factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Aye, so basically guys running around with a mix of plate, chain and leather seems legit with Space Wolves. Well, I guess that is the one SW faction that could pull it off :D Let me go off-topic for second then. A wandering company still needs to recruit from Fenris given the SW fluff, as stupid as it may be in my eyes, and relieve ships may not be as fast. Are there any other justification to having S4 T4 models on the field that are not exactly true SM? I don't know, something like guys being infused with the spirit of the Wolf (akin to our Wulfen) and gaining super human strength and speed but must always fight a battle within their head lest they get overwhelmed by the beast within and need to be put down. Or something else maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thunder Armour is still considered power armour. It isn't enclosed and doesn't have any life support functions at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thunder Armour is still considered power armour. It isn't enclosed and doesn't have any life support functions at all. Ah, good point. Thanks for the hint, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z00Z Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 You incorrect on the full enclosure. Without the PA in the Aett, they often wear knot-work leather garments, masks etc. There's also quite a few references in the SW books of them wearing these 'gimp masks' during battles or having no helmet at all, being bare faced. So full enclosure is not a requirement, certainly on the helm as they have enhanced senses of smell, sight, hearing etc, On your second point of lighter armour for horseback....well....let's be honest, its not horseback, they riding wolves. Thirdly the point of tracking opposition unnoticed. This is more a function of their feral nature than what they wearing. If you read Prospero burns, you will see many references of movement black shadows in the form of wolves, stealthy, being able to move soundless, even wearing trinkets and beads. In the end, its how you want to model them and your interpretation of the legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 You incorrect on the full enclosure. Without the PA in the Aett, they often wear knot-work leather garments, masks etc. There's also quite a few references in the SW books of them wearing these 'gimp masks' during battles or having no helmet at all, being bare faced. So full enclosure is not a requirement, certainly on the helm as they have enhanced senses of smell, sight, hearing etc, On your second point of lighter armour for horseback....well....let's be honest, its not horseback, they riding wolves. Thirdly the point of tracking opposition unnoticed. This is more a function of their feral nature than what they wearing. If you read Prospero burns, you will see many references of movement black shadows in the form of wolves, stealthy, being able to move soundless, even wearing trinkets and beads. In the end, its how you want to model them and your interpretation of the legion. Mine actually ride horses :D I just like to play them as trackers, hunters, rangers and horsemen. Being in full plate while doing those things seems a bit counter-productive to me. Some plate is fine to protect vital organs. But I really love that mix of some plate, chain and leather and this is how I am modelling my guys.. except the Iron Priests. They are full heavy metal plate :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Luck Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Aye, so basically guys running around with a mix of plate, chain and leather seems legit with Space Wolves. Well, I guess that is the one SW faction that could pull it off Let me go off-topic for second then. A wandering company still needs to recruit from Fenris given the SW fluff, as stupid as it may be in my eyes, and relieve ships may not be as fast. Are there any other justification to having S4 T4 models on the field that are not exactly true SM? I don't know, something like guys being infused with the spirit of the Wolf (akin to our Wulfen) and gaining super human strength and speed but must always fight a battle within their head lest they get overwhelmed by the beast within and need to be put down. Or something else maybe? Perhaps the hunt acts more like a crusading space marine faction (e.g. black templars) and does indeed recruit off home world. They'd probably still give as close a variant of the trials of Morkai as permitted by the planets nearby (e.g. leaving the hapless recruit alone on a deathworld to survive for a few weeks). It is also possible they recruit from other SM factions - e.g. the few white scars that survived an ork ambush due to the arrival of the hunt are offered the chance to ride with it, which would give a fluffy reason for the variety of skills (chapter tactics/SW codex bonus rules) shown in the lists you draw up. Probably the simplest way of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Aye, so basically guys running around with a mix of plate, chain and leather seems legit with Space Wolves. Well, I guess that is the one SW faction that could pull it off This here, its deceptive. Chains and Leather, oh sure sure, that's medieval stuff right? Whats that sound *pew pew* oh is it Lazer fire? OH right we're IN FUTURE SPACE! Know what that means? (And i'm trying to be funny here and no condescending with out being here to hear my tone it might be hard but i wanted to make it clear). We can make crap up. Oh sure they are just "chain and leather" armor. But the Chains are forged by ceramite links by ancient Iron priest with the blessings of the wolf god Morkai and the leather scraps are from the Hive tyrant who was slain by the wolf lord on Mount Canis during the battle of Lupis Prime on the frozen world of Vylka Doom. The Tyrant laughed as predator tank shells bounced off of it's side, and your world lord's favorite sword shattered on its attack. But not being one to give up so easily your world lord tore off the Tyrants arm and stabbed him in all 3 hearts with his own bio-scythe-claw-tooth-tentacle-fang-pincer-teeth, saving the day, and earning him a leather hide outfit that the Sisters Repentia would give a full access all week stay on the battle cruiser Safe Word is Emprah for just a square yard of that stuff (Btw a square yard would be enough to outfit the entire order with a little to spare. Those girls really know how to stretch their leather). The point Im making is, this is warhammer 40k, not 800 Central Germany (okay maybe not ~that~ many wars). Leather and chains isn't cowhide and iron. Its what ever you damn want it to be. I mean look at this. http://i.imgur.com/0Usc7du.jpg I mean do you really need to justify it anymore then this? "Russ Bro-dad, I got this it works well, but its not shiny" "What ever bro-son, it all shines with the blood of heritics and Xenos" "Thanks Bro-Dad, you're the bark bark best!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Most compelling argument ever. +1 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT_Cennar Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 may i use this for my siganture ? Brother Jochteas: I mean do you really need to justify it anymore then this?"Russ Bro-dad, I got this it works well, but its not shiny""What ever bro-son, it all shines with the blood of heritics and Xenos""Thanks Bro-Dad, you're the bark bark best!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Feel Free, I would be honored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Aye, so basically guys running around with a mix of plate, chain and leather seems legit with Space Wolves. Well, I guess that is the one SW faction that could pull it off Let me go off-topic for second then. A wandering company still needs to recruit from Fenris given the SW fluff, as stupid as it may be in my eyes, and relieve ships may not be as fast. Are there any other justification to having S4 T4 models on the field that are not exactly true SM? I don't know, something like guys being infused with the spirit of the Wolf (akin to our Wulfen) and gaining super human strength and speed but must always fight a battle within their head lest they get overwhelmed by the beast within and need to be put down. Or something else maybe? Why not just have recruits coming from the offspring of the kearl ship crews? Although SM vessels don't have the same crew counts as Imperial Navy ships, a Strike Cruiser would still have many thousands of mortal crew. As an aside, is this only for TWC, or have you done Chaos Warrior GH/BCs as well? If so, could you post pics? I've been wondering how easy it is to integrate Fanatsy Chaos Plastics and Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Aye, the obvious solution. This is the reason why I still want IG allies as opposed to SM allies. Still working on a way and cracking head to get it to work somehow. As for the models, I only use Chaos Warriors/Knights for WG related models, meaning TWC, WGBL, WGPL, PAWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHowler Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Also consider the wulfen of the 13th company. Their amor was often hanging off of them and parts of the armor were missing all together. They still got a 3+ save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tylerw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Keep in mind that TDA is probably closer to full plate than power armor. Power Armor is something like the 40k equivalent of... maybe scale mail? Chain mail? Anyway, something you'd wear that is protective, but still allows from reasonably fast movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I always considered 4+ armour to be more chainmail, 5+ leather and 6+ cloth and - is skin. If 2+ would be full plate, then 3+ would be a mix between chain and plate, which is basically what I am after. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Keep in mind that TDA is probably closer to full plate than power armor. Power Armor is something like the 40k equivalent of... maybe scale mail? Chain mail? Anyway, something you'd wear that is protective, but still allows from reasonably fast movement. Not exactly. Historical plate armour being movement limiting/slow is a myth, generally based around tournament/jousting armours never intended for the battlefield. If anything, chain mail is more restrictive than plate, as it hangs the entire armour weight from the shoulders (with some support form a belt), whereas plate was fitted to carry the weight of the armour more evenly across the body, increasing ease of movement and reducing fatigue. Video examples: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I think it is OK, at least to me. I mean there are parts of the power armor that have to move, so there are plates and things just like suits of armor. So if you have some fancy metal that you are using to cove those spots that make you look more bad ass, then I think it is the best way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 @ Leif - But you see, he is pretty much wearing what I want. Chain with Plate elements. Not 100% fully body plate ;) I guess most of it comes from wanting my SW to look different. You see, there is a reason why I want to bring in IG all the time, even though allying them is probably not high end competitive. It is all in an attempt to humanize a Space Marine. In the end, they are not humans anymore, but rather machines created to fight. That does not make for a compelling story. Granted, SW move away from that formula by having plenty of personality and character. But that does not change the fact of what they are. This has sort of been bugging me for a while now and one of the major reasons why I took a year long hiatus from playing SW and trying all other armies and converting them to be human, not alien or a super-human or something super-natural, but just a dude. Granted, said dude could have some mystical power or enhanced by otherworldly forces, but in essence still a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 @ Leif - But you see, he is pretty much wearing what I want. Chain with Plate elements. Not 100% fully body plate Because that's what plate armour was. You couldn't have steel plates covering all parts of the body, because movement is required, and these gaps were filled with mail, leather etc. to offer some protection while retaining flexibility. The same principal can be seen in the SM kits, with that ribbed undersuit stuff in the joints of the power armour, even in 40k, they're not wearing 100% body plate. I know this is something of a tangent, but I dislike the whole 'plate armour was slow, clumsy and heavy' myth, so I strive to correct it when it crops up. It's not meant to criticise your Chaos/Wolf combo, merely commenting on the historical reality of armour design, and why the original analogy of TDA=plate and PA=mail doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I still want to design the armour more akin to what you see in those videos as opposed to what we have now. As I said, the Chaos Warriors have pretty much the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smp.php Open this link, click on one of the lined joints of the armor suit, and notice that this is essentially the chain mail armor beneath the full plate that a medieval warrior might wear. Also, the armor is assumed to be thick and protective enough to have PA equivalent defense; I also hypothesize this is a largely moot area of discussion as the Runic TDA that Njal wears can be safely assumed to be transferrable to other armors, thus my Runic Scout Armor on a WL I am planning that counts as PA points wise, and allows the model to be runed up and have Scout Armor on the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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