Combi-Gravs in 30k?

[gmaleron]

hey guys I'm very interested in potentially doing Raven Guard, and they're Mor Dethayne Squads can all be equipped with combi weapons. Now my question is does that mean I can give them combi grab weapons from codec Space Marines? Also because grav weapons are listed under the Combi weapon profile in the 7th edition rule book. Thanks for your responses!

[Slips]

Combi-Weapons in 30k are only Flamer, Melta, Plasma and...oddly enough in the Terminator Special Weapons Pack the Combi-Weapons options has one that looks like a Grenade Launcher.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Yep, Combi-Grenade Launcher is a thing.

 

The 40k "grav" weapons do not exist in the heresy.

[gmaleron]

According to the rules for combi-weapons it states that you use the rules found in the 7th edition rulebook which combi-gravs are listed under there. Doesn't that mean I can use them? Because I have yet to find anything that says I cannot unless someone can show me where to find it?

[Memento Of Prospero]

According to the rules for combi-weapons it states that you use the rules found in the 7th edition rulebook which combi-gravs are listed under there. Doesn't that mean I can use them? Because I have yet to find anything that says I cannot unless someone can show me where to find it?

 

It's not under the weapons option... nothing clearer than that... ready the armoury entry.

[Dono1979]

There is no 30K equivilant of the 40K grav guns, just like there is no 40K version of the 30K volkite weaponary. If you REALLY want to pull the RAW argument, you could probably use Grav Combi's however, it is pretty clear that the intention is not to have Grav Gun weaponary in 30K.

[gmaleron]

It is listed in the armory of "see the 7th  Warhammer 40k rulebook" making them technically part of the armory. And im not doing this to be :cuss, mainly its because I plan to double dip with this army in both 40k & 30k and want to have them modeled properly as much as possible. And aren't Gravitation Guns in 30k basically a template version of what 40k Grav Cannons are?

[Slips]

They aren't, actually.The 40k versions wound by using the corresponding Armor save. So a 3+ armor save = 3+ to wound. Whereas in 30k, they must take a Strength test, if you will. On a roll of a D6, they need to get par or under their strength with a 6 always being a failure. They also affect vehicles differently. so a S3 model needs to roll 3 or lower or suffer a wound and a S10 model needs to only roll a 6 to get wounded. So, in practice, 30k weapons are better at wounding low Strength units and 40k Gravs are better at wounding units with high armor saves regardless of Strength.

Add onto that that the 30k Graviton guns cause Dangerous and Difficult terrain within their blast marker and they are totally different beasts, mainly due to Salvo. So, a Squad of Grav Centurions (assuming 6 Cents) can fire 30 shots (since the Grav cannon is 3/5) and a Graviton Cannon Rapier Battery only has 3 5" blasts (assuming 3 rapiers) due to them being Heavy 1.

All things considered, they are quite different. If you were to take combi-gravs in 30k, then they'd have to be considered 18" AP4 Heavy1, Blast 3", Concussive, Graviton Pulse, Haywire instead of their 40k 18" Ap2 Salvo 2/3 Concussive.

If you were to come up to me and say "I have combi-gravs in my unit. They'll use the 30k rules since we're playing a 30k game" then I'd have no problem with it. If you said "I have combi-gravs and will use 40k rules for them" however, then I'd have a problem since we've already got our own rules for the weapon type and imo, they're better

[Sanct]

 

There is no 30K equivilant of the 40K grav guns, just like there is no 40K version of the 30K volkite weaponary. If you REALLY want to pull the RAW argument, you could probably use Grav Combi's however, it is pretty clear that the intention is not to have Grav Gun weaponary in 30K.

 

Yes there are versions of the 40k Grav weapons in 30k.  So far they are limited to the mechanicum with the imploder (a salvo 2/4 version of the grav-gun)

 

 

According to the rules for combi-weapons it states that you use the rules found in the 7th edition rulebook which combi-gravs are listed under there. Doesn't that mean I can use them? Because I have yet to find anything that says I cannot unless someone can show me where to find it?

 

The horus heresy books were written under the 6th edition rules which only list the combi- flamer, plasma and melta varieties.  It does not say use 7th edition. It says use the warhammer 40k rulebook.

 

 

IMO If your opponent agrees to allow it then there is nothing to stop it.  Don't do it just to win and be 'that guy'.  Understand the 40k grav weapons are going to be more powerful in 30k because of the balance of armour saves (there are no eldar, ork or necrons in the horus heresy and the guard versions are not out yet)

[Moonstalker]

This is a little... outside the box, but you might draw the conclusion from the Legion combiweapon set that FW put out, just what combiweapons they intend for there to be in 30k.  Likewise, the Terminator special weapon sets lack any sort of combi-grav.  I'd argue that they don't even intend for there to be any combi versions of 30k grav weapons, much less combi versions of any 40k grav weapons.

 

gmaleron, your best course of action is to contact FW directly and ask.  They are usually pretty good about responding to rules queries via email, even if they are slow to issue official FAQs.

[Anvilarium]

 

According to the rules for combi-weapons it states that you use the rules found in the 7th edition rulebook which combi-gravs are listed under there. Doesn't that mean I can use them? Because I have yet to find anything that says I cannot unless someone can show me where to find it?

 

The horus heresy books were written under the 6th edition rules which only list the combi- flamer, plasma and melta varieties.  It does not say use 7th edition. It says use the warhammer 40k rulebook.

 

 

This is the answer right here. The Heresy Rulebook refers to the rules for Combi-Weapons in the 6th Edition rulebook, as that was when the original Legion Army list was published. Combi-Grav weapons did not exist in the 6th Edition Rulebook, which is why FW didn't put an exception in place at the time.

 

FW have yet to release an FAQ to fix this issue, so I guess if you wanted to be a really beardy RAW-lawyer you could use Combi-Grav weapons in a Heresy army, however it probably wouldn't gain you many friends.

[Slave to Darkness]

Build the combi gravs, class them a something else in 30k, just make sure the person your playing knows what they are, also I would class them all as the same weapon, not this one is combi flamer and this one is a plasma, that would just make my head hurt trying to remember. Also stops them acusing you of cheating if you forget yourself, I had a game once against tome kid whos marine army didnt have the weapon on his special and heavy minis, his excuse was so he could paint them seperate, I thought that odd as he stuck bolters on everybody else, and his entire army was grey plastic. every turn his minis changed weapons, was later told its his tactic, use the excuse of seperate painting to pull that trick on people 

[Atia]

For me, lorewise, 30k graviton weapons are better 40k grav-weapons. The problem is that the 40k grav-pistols and combi-gravs came out after the release of Betrayal, and we don't get rules for them yet. But you could play a grav-pistol as archaeotech pistol and the combi-grav as combi-melta.