shabbadoo Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Well, you gotta hand it to 'em. At least GW is consistent in not "WOW!"-ing the DA community: From BoLS: It's Christmas for Every Space Marine Legion. Each of them gets an awesome new relic courtesy of Forgeworld! These are very quick summaries of only the Legion Relics (there are omany thers) from the upcoming Horus Heresy Conquest book! The most important part of this list is that even the Legions that have not gotten special rules yet and have to use the default Legion list (like the Blood Angels, or Thousand Sons) get some goodies! Dark Angels - Pyrix Extasis Enemies in assault subject to Fear Emperor's Children - Lucid Blade Superior Power Weapon that can trade unused attacks for improving your save Iron Warriors - Blind Helm of the Black Judges AP3 2d6 shot ranged weapon that fires Overwatch at full BS White Scars - Parthinian Serpent AP2 bow that fires Skyfire, Precision, Interceptor, Pinning, Full BS Snap Shots Space Wolves - Burning Claws Armorbane, Mastercrafted lighting claws with more bells and whistles Imperial Fists - Indomitan Mantle Eternal Warrior plus a 3++ vs Melta Night Lords - Nostraman Mancatcher AP3 Melee that deprives victims of attacks Blood Angels - Photonic Blade AP2 melee SoulBlaze, Fleshbane, Blind, Fear Iron Hands - Grav Gauntlet AP3 Assault 3 Flamer, Haywire, +3 on Building Damage table World Eaters - Earthbreaker Trident AP2 Melee weapon, can be thrown once per game and permanently damages the terrain/buildings within 12" Ultramarines - Gladius Invictus AP3 Melee, ignores all shields plus other bonuses Death Guard - Barbaran Thurible Enemies within 6" -1 Toughness Thousand Sons - Luminiferous Resonator Salvo 3/6 AP3 improved Neural Shredder Sons of Horus - Cataphractii Primus Terminator Armor, Eternal Warrior +1 Toughness Word Bearers - Conversion Dissonator -2 invulnerable saves within 12" Salamanders - Zeroth Conductor Shield Inflicts multiple S:8 AP2 Blind hits on units who charge the bearer Raven Guard - Fractal Harrow-Blade AP3 Melee, rending, inflicts double wounds for combat resolution purposes Alpha Legion - The Drakaina Rending Poison pistol whose wounds spread to new victims throughout the game Well have full points and details on these next week - but those sound totally cool! Yep. DA definitley got the best of the bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 bussiness as usual i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I'd just like to know why... Nothing I've read in the Heresy leads me to believe that somehow Dark Angels Marines are somehow more "scary" or "ominous" on the battle field than any other Marines. Do they scream "Boo" more loudly? Their reputation for silence and aloofness shouldn't have developed yet, and even then, that doesn't necessarily mean they generate fear in the enemy. Isn't "fear" as a weapon more of the Night Lords schtick anyway? Want to talk about a group who's reputation and accoutrements scream "Fear me mortal and Astartes alike, I wear death." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Rage Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Would have liked it if it was something that could be modelled onto a marine like a physical relic like the sword and armour types. It sounds more like an aura or gaze that the dark angels possess during their assault. Like Bryan Blaire said I think it seems more like something the night lords or thousand sons would possess, Dark Angels being more like a knightly order I would have thought their relic would have been a sword similar to their heavenfall blades even though I don't think they were in possession of obsidian pre heresy. Even the trident for world eaters seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 These are Legion items though, so some oddity seems reasonable. The trident is not as odd as you might think, as the World Eaters homeworld was a place where the privaleged kept gladiator slaves (iirc), of which Angron was one (the only Primarch not to be ruling his own world when the Emperor arrived). So, though odd, the trident makes enough sense. Most of the items are very useful, and mostly in character. The mancatcher is a bit odd for the Night Lords. I would have put that on a legion known to capture people (to pervert and/or convert them), like the Emperor's Children or Word Bearers. As to the Pryrix Extasis being a DA Legion item, yes, the whole "Fear" thing is not even appropriate to the Legion era Dark Angels, but to the Night Lords. So, a not so good item and a not so appropriate item. An item representative of "noble knights" would have fit Legion era DA, but apparently that didn't occur to anyone. I am almost not looking forward to them doing Lion El'Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 On a separate note, woo... Death Guard -1T trinket. And already with Rad Grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yeah... that's rough, guys. The Blood Angels got Fear, and also AP 2, Soul Blaze, Fleshbane, and Blind. That's pretty harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Harsh but fair, we deserve nothing and we get nothing. Crap rule designers :cuss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well, from what I hear, the description of the DA item is that its an Arc of the Covenant type deal. Kinda fitting when viewed from that perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Why do I feel like we get screwed on every possible angle by rules designers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It feels underwhelming and misplaced. Nothing new given the usual trend. But I dont play 30K so.. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well, from what I hear, the description of the DA item is that its an Arc of the Covenant type deal. Kinda fitting when viewed from that perspective.In that case, why the heck is that a DA Relic? Sounds more like something from the Word Bearers... I get that the theme for the 40K DA is a little murky, and I'm cool with that. They are a mix of things. However, the 30K DA are not, and have been presented with almost none of the "darkness" that pervades them later. The "fear" angle makes no sense for the Legion and just seems to involve them playing in other Legions' bailiwicks. The "relics of Caliban" angle really can't start until Caliban is destroyed, unless they are saying this is something "looted"/"procured" from another knightly order, etc, on the planet, because nothing like that has been described or made an appearance in any text for the DA. The solitary "fear" element just doesn't make any sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 You'd think the best swordsmen of the Legiones Astartes would get a relic sword. Nope, they get fear. If that's because they're "silent," the Phoenix Guard of the High Elves would like a word. I guess Forge World is a part of Games Workshop after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Isn't the 40K Perfidious Relic something that Fears too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Adamantium Will and Fear for the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ania Redfang Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Fear's better in 30k though isn't it, due to the lack of ATSKNF? Still pretty crappy unless it's army wide, like if you have this all models cause fear, because the other things like the blood angels sword are specifically a weapon, but this could affect more than one model/unit because it's kind of vague? (/wishful thinking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's a very weak option when compared with the others on that list, even army wide it is pretty lame. But that particular gripe aside, the implication about the direction that FW are about to take us in a future HH rule book is concerning to say the least. The real issue is do they think we are fear causing weirdos compared to other Legions in 30k? I sincerely hope not and ask you guys if you think that is the right track for them. My belief, after reading opinions on forums like this is that very few if any of the player base see the DA as anything other than Knights, albeit with some internal trust issues. Am I wrong and am I seeing an issue that doesn't exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Rage Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Fully agree with Stobz on this one, if this relic is a glimpse of what FW has planned for pre heresy Dark Angels it is kind of concerning as to what kind of image they plan on given the pre heresy Dark Angels. Perhaps simply being the first legion invokes fear in our enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 So how would this work against Astartes ( know no fear ). Just sounds lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I normally try and see the best in things but if that is really all we get for our relic and looking at the others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 That's emotive DAD ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Zzzzzzzzz, maybe gw/fw is trying to get us to take a hint? I will say I thought that 30k SM didnt have ATSKNF but I am probably wrong on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 A hint that a big chunk of the player base (their customers) don't want or like, sounds awesome ;) I know, I haven't researched the numbers. I'm just going on gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 While Leadership is more important in 30K due to the lack of ATSKNF, a Fear check is still an unmodified Ld check, meaning in most cases (most untis are Ld 8-10, or Fearless) it is going to be a factor 1/6 of the time, or less, and only in close combat. A Chaplain with Zealot cancels it out (yes, you will never see these in close combat units ), and merely being within 6" of a standard bearer in 30K makes a unit Fearless. Though there is no ATSKNF, it is easy to get around. It is not so easy to get around the effects of every other item on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You guys seem to be confusing being scary with the fear rule mechanic. You are right that DA are not more scary than others. The DA are known for tactical acumen, but there isn't a clear way to show that in game. There isn't a good way rules wise to make a poor player a tactical genius. It isn't like they can write down a list of good traps to lay and expect our opponents to always fall for them. That being said, the penalty imposed by the fear USR could also be used to show our troops catching an opponent off guard. It is just a shame that they didn't create a rule that shows that tactical acumen more consistently, but maybe that should be something we bring to the game. It saddens me that not one of you was clever enough to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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