Grazzlebaz Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 So last year for a Horus Heresy tournament I came to these forums looking for list help and I made a phenomenal list. However since then Imperial knights have come out so here's the question. Can a Legion Astartes list take Imperial knight allies? In the imperial knight codex it says you can take 1-3 in a detatchment but that is a 40k book. I own HH book one but I do not own book 3 or 4 for HH. With my current list Imperial knights are a big concern, it would be easier if i could take out some stuff and put an Acheron pattern knight in there but I want to make sure I can ally with knights and make a legal army before I drop $300 on a new model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Book 4 includes rules for Knight allies. From what I have heard, these are different (and more detailed) than those in the GW IK codex. I think I heard that it's 2 knights minimum to form an allied Knight detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Since last week - yes it can. Conquest book contains full army list for Knight houses, they are considered Mechanicum in the Allies table. Rules are quite interesting, plus there are some relic wargear for Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 When taken as a Primary or Allied detachment, they are no longer considered Lords of War I believe and can be taken as allies and take allies as per the ally matrix in 30K, counting as Mechanicum. However when taken as Lords of War, currently only one Knight is available to Legions (the Volkite pattern one), all others are considered Mechanicum Lords of War only. Edit: Unless Book IV changed this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 When taken as a Primary or Allied detachment, they are no longer considered Lords of War I believe and can be taken as allies and take allies as per the ally matrix in 30K, counting as Mechanicum. However when taken as Lords of War, currently only one Knight is available to Legions (the Volkite pattern one), all others are considered Mechanicum Lords of War only. Edit: Unless Book IV changed this as well? I've just skimmed the relevant pages in Conquest and I believe all of that is correct. Bear in mind that when taking knights as allies rather than as a Lord of War you need a minimum of 1 HQ and 1 Troop, so unless you take Archmagos Draykavic you will need two knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Cool, thanks, still waiting for my book to arrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazzlebaz Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 Thanks for the replies! So just to double check, If I take them as a lord of war I can take jus the one. But if I use them as allies I need to take 2 (for 1 HQ and 1 Troop minimum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Thanks for the replies! So just to double check, If I take them as a lord of war I can take jus the one. But if I use them as allies I need to take 2 (for 1 HQ and 1 Troop minimum). Actually, I don't think you can take them as LoW if you're playing Legion/SA. The rules for LoW in Betrayal were much looser and permitted it (as a detachment of 1-3 imperial super-heavy walkers of up to 3 Structure Points each), but in Massacre/LACAL this changed. They would now fall under the War Machine detachment LoW type, which means you can have 1-2 of them as a choice, but that detachment specifies that the units for it must be chosen "either from the specific army list for the primary detachment or from an appropriate Apocalypse datasheet." (page 8 LACAL) Knights only fall into the former for Mechanicum/Questoris Knights, and they don't have Apoc datasheets. Ergo, they may only be taken as allies for Legions and never as a LoW. Unless something in Conquest says differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Having gotten a peek at a copy of Conquest, I'd amend the above. Solar Auxilia CAN take Knights as LoW, because they have a rule that specifically allows it. But RAW in Massacre/LACAL, Legions cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Having gotten a peek at a copy of Conquest, I'd amend the above. Solar Auxilia CAN take Knights as LoW, because they have a rule that specifically allows it. But RAW in Massacre/LACAL, Legions cannot. This is correct. Solar Auxilia have some specific exceptions allowing a few Lords of War to be taken as a part of their list. Legions remain unchanged, at least from what I have read so far. I will post further if I find differently. In short, you must take an allied Knight force under the allegiance restrictions of "Mechanicum" forces to fight alongside any Legiones Astartes list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I thought that the Styrix could be taken by the Legion? Being the only Knight capable of being a Lord of War for a Legion list, or did Book IV change the profile from the pdf on the FW website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 You're going to have to point me to where that's located on the FW site, I can't find it. Obviously, nothing in the book states that it overrides anything published in the "downloads" section of Forgeworlds website... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 He might mean the Magaera. The Magaera model was released earlier than the Styrix, and got a PDF to go with it, but the Styrix got put up with the "rules available in upcoming book," bit and never got a PDF. Either way, marked with 'experimental rules' stamp. The book would take precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Could someone please give me the page number and of what book this is listed in? Because I have checked all the books and have found nothing that says that Legions cannot take an Imperial Knight as a Lord of War choice, especially because Knights have Lord of War listed in their profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Could someone please give me the page number and of what book this is listed in? Because I have checked all the books and have found nothing that says that Legions cannot take an Imperial Knight as a Lord of War choice, especially because Knights have Lord of War listed in their profile. According to Kitwulfen, Page 8 LA:CAL under the specified Lords of War type War Machine. His post is just a bit higher and goes into more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Well, there are no knights listed in the Crusade Army List, so I think that's your answer. They only appear in other factions, most obviously the mechanicum and their own list in Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's not an answer though, the Knights are not in the regular army lists in Warhammer 40k either and they can still be taken as a LOW. The fact that Knights are listed as a LOW in the 4th book should be enough to justify it if it is same as 40k correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The Knights in book 4 do not have Lord of War in their profile. They have 'Knight', so I'm not sure where you got that from. Nowhere in the Knight army list does it say you can or cannot use them as Lord of War choices in other armies... but this is because they're not Lords of War units and therefore it's simply "no". Before you bring out 'but 40k says I can take 'Knights'!', note that if you use the FoC charts from 40k against your 40k mates, you might get away with this, but in 30k, you're using the Age of Darkness FoC's, and these do not have a Knight choice. In the Auxilia list, it specifically states on page 242 regarding Lords of War that, "In addition, it has access to Super-heavy Walkers from the Legion TItanicus (see The Horus Heresy Book 1 - Betrayal) or Knights chosen from the Questoris Knight Crusade Army list (the Household ranks in this case are not used)." Unless the marine list is amended to state that they can use Knights in this way, they are not a unit the Legions can use. Nothing is stopping you using a Knight army as an Ally (see page 294 of bk4), which gives you access to Household Ranks as well. The only limitation being you'll need two Knights to fulfil the Allies chart compulsory units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Knights are expressly allowed as such in 40k ruleset. In 30k, we have different FoC charts and detachment rules, different allies, and entire armies banned from being played (all 40k armies, which includes imperial knights).Saying otherwise is like saying CSM should have ATSKNF because Codex Space Marines does. Edit; I've done a post here if anyone is interested regarding what are the legal Lords of War choices for Heresy era armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Simply because it says you cant take it, doesnt mean that you can take it. Lords of War are restricted to their respective armies. Knights - Ad Mech Stormhammer - Solar Auxilia etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just found something in Book 1 Horus Heresy that says you can take an Imperial Knight as a Lord of War for a Legion Space Marine army, listed under "Lords of War & Their Availability": And I quote "A single Titan (note this will only be in available in larger games owing to points restrictions)" And Imperial Knights are classified under Titans and even called "Imperial Knight Titans" this means that you can take one as a Lord of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 From LACAL, pg. 8: Each of the following constitutes a single LoW choice within the limits of the game being played and must be available to the army it is being chosen for: - The Primarch [..] - The Engine of Destruction [super heavy vehicle, >=9 hp's] - War Machine Detachment: [1-2 super heavy vehicles, <=8 hp's each] - Sub orbital strike wing [fliers] YOU CAN'T TAKE KNIGHTS IN AN LEGION ARMY LIST, lacal is the LAST UPDATED rulebook for the Legions, BETRAYAL isn't relevant any more ..... they aren't part of the LACAL book, so aren't choices for the Legions (f. e. Thallax/Castellax are legion choices and IN the book) or in other words, you need to take either SA or Mechanicum as main detachment, OR USE KNIGHTS as allies ..... OR play apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Agreed above. Betrayal is completely superseded by LACAL, the only amendments that should be applied to that will come from the official FW PDFs. The fact that Knights now have a legitimate army list and are specifically listed as under the Mechanicum umbrella for the allies matrix pretty much shuts the case. That being said just because it's classed as Mechanicum doesn't mean you can take a cheap HQ - The Knight Questoris list is independent of the rest, although I'm pretty sure the Tahmata list allowed their inclusion as LoW. You're free to include them as allies. But you must take a valid ally detachment in order for that to happen. Hence 1 HQ and 1 Troop upgrades paid for on top of the units themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindOfMetal Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 What about taking the obsidian knight? It's an apocalypse datasheet in Warzone Damocles, so would it be allowed under the Lord of War selection process as it comes under the second part of "either from the specific army list for the primary detachment or from an appropriate Apocalypse datasheet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 IF you want it that bad then do it, I think the spirit of the rule is pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.