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1850 Maelstrom using Kranon's Helguard Formation (help!)


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#1
Prot

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Okay, this is new for me to try a big formation I'm trying to fit in a 'normal' force org attachment to the formation so I have some Objective Secured rolling and to fill some gaps left by the 'awkwardness' of the Helguard formation!

 

Here's the helguard formation/ detachment:

 

HQ:

Lord (Kranon)  Blade of Relentless, Daemonheart, The Slaughter's horns. 165pts (Joins Draznicht's Chosen)

 

ELITE:

 

Draznicht's Chosen: 8 Chosen. MoK(to match up with Kranon), Power Axe, Powerfist, 2 x meltagun: 230pts

 

Terminators: x 3, 2 x Combi plasma, 2 x P.Axe: 105pts

 

Helbrute: Combi Boltgun, MM: 105pts

 

TROOPS:

 

Cultists x 10 with 9 autoguns: 59 Pts

 

Cultists x 10 with 9 autoguns: 59 Pts

 

FAST:

 

Raptors x 5, flamer x2, 105pts

 

HEAVY:

 

Landraider, dozer blade, XA, dirge caster: 250pts (Kranon and Draznicht's kids go in here)

 

Helguard Formation: 1078 Pts.

 

 

Allied Detachment (for some Objective secured and back fill)

 

HQ:

Dark Apostle (crozius of the Dark Covenant) 135pts

 

TROOPS:

Cultists x 10 with 9 autoguns: 59 Pts

 

Cultists x 10 with 9 autoguns: 59 Pts

 

FAST:
Heldrake / baleflamer 170pts

 

HEAVY:

Obliterators x 3. MoN 228Pts

 

FORTIFICATION:

Aegis + Quad gun 100pts

 

Allied Detachment Total: 751Pts (+Helguard formation) = 1829 pts. = 21pts short.

 

Strategy/Thoughts:

- Normally I take Possessed with Kranon, however they aren't in the formation, and probably just a waste of points considering how they perform for me, but I'm open to ideas on this (I own 6, and could proxy up to 8)

 

- Dark Apostle leads the allied detachment which has two objective secured units? This let's them sit comfortably behind Aegis with Quad and sit on objectives while retaining Zealot, and allowing Oblits cover saves/safefty.

 

Since this detachment does not count for -1 BS/ -1 Leadership, it will most likely hang back and let Kranon's Helguard push hard forward.

 

 

- Heavies: I can only take one heavy in the allied detachment: Do I stick with Oblits or go Maulerfiend in this list?

 

- Do you see any gaping holes or recommendations?


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#2
Kilofix

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I prefer Plasma Guns for the Chosen since they can get Preferred Enemy from CS. Then I'd give Combi-Meltas to Termis instead and suicide DS them for anti-tank.

Other than that, your list is the one I'd build if using Helguard as a base.
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#3
Prot

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I would agree on the termies and while making the list I had that thought in mind but for some reason I thought of going twin plasma and going for rear shots but I'll change it back to melta's!

 

The chosen I'm afraid will stay melta for they are getting out of the assault ramp to mess some things up! But I do get your thinking there.

 

I still need to figure out some points left over, but if no one has any sizable advice, I guess i won't change too much else!


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#4
Lucio

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I'd give the Helguard Cultists autopistols and flamers to use up the points and run them forwards to help block shots. Since they aren't objective secure, the enemy mmight ignore them long enough to get off an assault. Even if they don't they help provide the special rule take effect with the Helbrute.

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#5
brother_contagion

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I would suggest you swap out the Obliterators for a Maulerfiend, and drop the two Cultist squads for a 9 man Marine Squad with a Rhino w/ Dozer Blades, 1 Metlagun, Champion with Power Ax (I tend to prefer the Maul) & Combi-Melta, and give your Chosen squad 2 more Power Weapons (this is including the Champion), and give the Champion Melta Bombs. I'd also suggest exchanging the Combi-Bolter and Multi-Melta on your Helbrute for a Plasma Cannon, it'll give him greater threat range. That way you can have your small Stubborn Cultists behind the Aegis with the Quad Gun and have another squad of Marines with the Dark Apostle following the Land Raider and Maulerfiend up the table.

 

Just my 2 cents.


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#6
Prot

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For now I've removed one oblit, and added a few bodies to the cultists, and flamers.

 

Then I just read this:

I would suggest you swap out the Obliterators for a Maulerfiend, and drop the two Cultist squads for a 9 man Marine Squad with a Rhino w/ Dozer Blades, 1 Metlagun, Champion with Power Ax (I tend to prefer the Maul) & Combi-Melta, and give your Chosen squad 2 more Power Weapons (this is including the Champion), and give the Champion Melta Bombs. I'd also suggest exchanging the Combi-Bolter and Multi-Melta on your Helbrute for a Plasma Cannon, it'll give him greater threat range. That way you can have your small Stubborn Cultists behind the Aegis with the Quad Gun and have another squad of Marines with the Dark Apostle following the Land Raider and Maulerfiend up the table.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

This is an interesting thought for sure, but I have some concerns with it. Chosen with addtional power weapons? I don't know... that's getting might pricey... but I do like the idea of re-outfitting the Helbrute. I kept him pretty vanilla and just always throw in the combibolter for the 'weapon destroyed results'.

 

But the Troops I'm unsure of and here's my reasoning:

 

1) The small formation troops (Cultists) I'd prefer to have them advancing with Zealot (Apostle) just because they add to the -1 BS/ -1 Leadership factor.

 

2) The 2 allied Cultists squads have objective secured, so my thought was leave THOSE ones behind to man the quad and get an objective or two in my zone. This way with objective secured my opponent can't drop some junk in to contest, he's gotta kill me/contest with his Objective Secured units.

 

3) I love the idea of the Chaos Marines and the Dark Apostle getting together and following the Landraider, I really do. But I have to convince myself it would be worth forgoing Point 1 and 2 in order to do this. ....

 

Thanks for the idea though. I might just do it!

 

+++EDIT++

 

okay, Maulerfiend is in!

Cultsists are replaced in the allied detachment with 9 marines, Poweraxe (DA will take challenges), and Rhino. DA will advance with them in the Rhino.

 

I changed the helbrute as well...


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#7
brother_contagion

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Sweet! Once you get a game in, put a batrep up and tell us how it went!


Smiles Are Contagious

Go Forth And Contaminate As Many As You Can!

 

The Imperial Creed

1. Against the Alien and the Traitor there is no fair way to fight

 

 (In response to the new Khârn model)

 

KHORNE CARES NOT FOR WHICH WAY THE AXE HAND GOES! -- Charlo

 

#8
Lord Asvaldir

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I feel like I'm missing something..why the two detachments? I don't see why you can't just make the helguard formation, then just fill in remaining force org slots. that means you don't have to spend pts on the apostle and yet more cultists who really aren't doing a whole lot for you. Instead you could take stuff you'll need to get some heat off the land raider-because right now there's basically nothing. Maulerfiend, vindicators, another marine assault squad in a rhino-all options.

 

Also for your chosen, why no icon of wrath? They should have one, plus they can take one more power axe or a pair of lightning claws.  


The Night is Dark and Full of Terrors...

 

 


#9
Prot

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The chosen become a point sink after a while... just too expensive for my tastes. They need ablative wounds.

 

The formation can't be expanded. You can't add units to it.


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#10
Lord Asvaldir

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Yes I know that, but one force org chart doesn't=one formation. In my understanding you can have more units outside that formation within the same force  org chart. 


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