Sulemain Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Just finished reading it; brought it this morning. Amazing, simply amazing. Loved the lore, the writing, the characters, the everything. SPOILERS: Sigmund appearing at the end was unexpected, yet welcome. The narrator is strange; a traitor and a tyrant, yet strangely compassionate. In a very weird relationship with a Dark Eldar women. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I agree. I just finished it and ADB delivers yet another first class novel. He manages to write interesting characters, a good story and I'm looking forward to the next book. This actually made me want to start a Black Legion army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I think, to a certain degree, A D-B somehow rejuvenates interest in factions whose star has waned. He did it for the Night Lords and he's done/doing it for the Black Legion. Of course, people might tell you that there has always been interest in those factions but, to me, they strangely seem much more popular and well thought of once he has had a chance to spin a yarn with them. Regardless, Talon of Horus is a good book and I recommend reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 And yet, the Black Legion isn't even a thing yet in Talon. I can't wait for Black Legion, that book will cover some events about the Black Legion that get all my interest. And I'm not even talking about the First Black Crusade. Can't wait for that too. For Drach'nyen, the Tower of Silence, the Mark of Chaos, the duel with Sigismund... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Got this for Christmas and found myself hooked, powered through it in a day, (rare for me!) I love everything about this, the delving into the nature of daemons and the warp, the myriad characters touching on the cooler aspects of Team Bad Guys. Why, this is tempting me to start my first 'evil' army in Black Legion, as I love the mentality of its founding and genesis. Looking forward to the sequel! For now, I have the Night Lords Omnibus to work through next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulemain Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 The narrator meditating on how total the defeat of the Traitor Legions during the Great Scouring was surprised me. In a good way, mind. As does the constant refrain, also mentioned in the Night Lords series, of the differences between the Legions and the Chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 In the Scouring, traitor were pushed to Eye of Terror while some legions simply have their primarchs disappeared such as Angron in Khârn Eater of Worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Its a brilliant read, it almost made me think Khayon wasn't that bad a guy! How big a series is this going to be, because if it lasts suitably well enough there may be the teeniest inch of 40k progression. Now before we all go bananas I'm talking long game a few years down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I believe it will be a trilogy. Of course, we could always try and ask A D-B himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I believe he has said himself it is currently being planned as such. Black Legion is the next sequel's title, I believe. But it might not be set in stone yet. I remember before this one was released that it was said that there was talk that this could be his Gaunt's Ghosts. But I can't remember if this was hearsay or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulemain Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's good that ADB keeps on reminding you how terrible and evil the main characters are, otherwise you would likely forget. I honestly think Chaos Space Marines as characters are easier to like then normal space marines; they emote more, they are more human. Terrible transhuman, but human. It's hard to pull off Imperial Space Marines like that, with some exceptions. Ventris is one of them. Rogal Dorn another (Primarch, not marine, but he's always been the one I've most identified with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I believe he has said himself it is currently being planned as such. Black Legion is the next sequel's title, I believe. But it might not be set in stone yet. I remember before this one was released that it was said that there was talk that this could be his Gaunt's Ghosts. But I can't remember if this was hearsay or not. https://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/the-talon-of-horus/ Super-duper old blog post about it, but I believe that's where the Gaunt's Ghosts thing came from. The sheer scale of possibility has had me delaying this series a few times, because it’s the story of… everything. It could last for years and years. I originally pitched it as 2-3 novels, but my editors have mentioned that it might work better as a long-running series. “Your ‘Gaunt’s Ghosts‘,” are the words being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 They're not mutually exclusive, of course. Gaunt's Ghosts is divided into 4 major story arcs (so far). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Aye, it'd be nice to see the trilogy turn into just the first story arc of a bigger, in-depth look. If I could get a Black Legion book that could compare with (my opinion of) Necropolis, that would be just ideal. But, ball's in AD-B's court, and the BL's. It depends on if he wants to stick with it, or if he gets burned out on it. Or if BL wants to keep him tied to it, or if they want him to stay relatively freed up for other work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I thought he'd said something more definitive on the subject. June last year: “Book I of the Black Legion Series.” And so it begins. Series. Not “trilogy”. Series. OH GOD THE PRESSURE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrandy93 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I just finished reading the book. I could not put it down. I hope he does at least a 6 book series as I found it amazing. Loved Iskandar Khyan character. I never thought I would say that about a Chaos marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 It's good that ADB keeps on reminding you how terrible and evil the main characters are, otherwise you would likely forget. I honestly think Chaos Space Marines as characters are easier to like then normal space marines; they emote more, they are more human. Terrible transhuman, but human. It's hard to pull off Imperial Space Marines like that, with some exceptions. Ventris is one of them. Rogal Dorn another (Primarch, not marine, but he's always been the one I've most identified with). Well, that can be a good thing or a bad thing (from a narrative point of view), and in either case depends on the Chaos Space Marine(s) in question. Khayon is not "evil" as such, and is never really stated to be as far as I can remember. This is fine as the Thousand Sons were never really described as evil in the lore, going back to at least the Index Astartes. Arrogant? Sure. Too occupied with the question of it they can to ever ask if they should? Absolutely. Evil? No, not really. Remember they only joined Horus out of self defense, and even then Tzeentch doesn't really directly cause or encourage the kind of atrocities that the other Chaos gods do, and it appears that many Thousand Sons don't even directly serve Tzeentch the way PMs serve Nurgle or Zerks serve Khorne. They just kind of do their own thing, though their own thing tends to somehow play into Tzeentch's grand design. Anyway, this changes if you are talking about say, the Night Lords. This was actually the one thing that really bothered me about the NL trilogy. I liked the characters too much. Talos really came off as a decent guy, he really cared about the legacy of his Legion, he believed in things beyond just murder and self-gratification, and he was protective of his human slaves (who he didn't really abuse in any way other than one beating he gave Septimus for his unauthorized hanky panky). But I shouldn't like the Night Lords as individuals. Read their fluff. They are the most irredeemable monsters this side of the Dark Eldar. They don't even believe in the whole crusade to overthrow an oppressive Imperium that cheated them of their humanity thing. They really are just in it for the sadism and self gratification. To be fair though, it's hard to write a protagonist that is that much of a monster as most people cannot relate to sociopathy, and for good reason. As for Khayon's girlfriend, I actually think this was done well. I rolled my eyes at first too at the idea of the protagonist having an action-girl gal pal, but the way it was actually executed was excellent. It works for me because if you actually think about it, they are both in a position where they are essentially genderless. Sure, Khayon is "male" but he's an Astartes, and has been since the age when he would have otherwise begun noticing women, so to him Nefertari is just an alien, albeit one with aspects that a part of him that never had a chance to exist may have found beautiful. As for Nefertari, well she is fully female as far as we know, but again, she is an alien, and one surrounded by eunuchs and beastmen, to whom she is an Eldar long before she is a female, much less a woman. I guess it also works because, after all, she is a Dark Eldar, and all Dark Eldar are lithe, quick, and deadly, with females having to fight or be murdered or enslaved just like males. My main issue with the "action girl" cliche in general is that most female action characters are just not built for what they are doing. They are too skinny, thin boned, and poorly muscled to make convincing soldiers or fighters. This stands in opposition of course to characters like Brianne of Tarth, and for different reasons, Nefertari, both of whom seem legitimately formidable without just feeling like tokens or fan service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 It's good that ADB keeps on reminding you how terrible and evil the main characters are, otherwise you would likely forget. I honestly think Chaos Space Marines as characters are easier to like then normal space marines; they emote more, they are more human. Terrible transhuman, but human. It's hard to pull off Imperial Space Marines like that, with some exceptions. Ventris is one of them. Rogal Dorn another (Primarch, not marine, but he's always been the one I've most identified with). Well, that can be a good thing or a bad thing (from a narrative point of view), and in either case depends on the Chaos Space Marine(s) in question. Khayon is not "evil" as such, and is never really stated to be as far as I can remember. This is fine as the Thousand Sons were never really described as evil in the lore, going back to at least the Index Astartes. Arrogant? Sure. Too occupied with the question of it they can to ever ask if they should? Absolutely. Evil? No, not really. Remember they only joined Horus out of self defense, and even then Tzeentch doesn't really directly cause or encourage the kind of atrocities that the other Chaos gods do, and it appears that many Thousand Sons don't even directly serve Tzeentch the way PMs serve Nurgle or Zerks serve Khorne. They just kind of do their own thing, though their own thing tends to somehow play into Tzeentch's grand design. I don't know man, Khayon is pretty evil. Khayon is never called out as explicitly evil because we are reading the story from his perspective and he totally thinks he is right, but there are a lot of subtleties that point to it. John French's Ahriman series is maybe a better example of the ruin and damnation that being in the thrall of Tzeentch brings with it, but Khayon is also pretty clearly in the thrall of his patron. I think it's pretty typical of any under Tzeentch's sway to think themselves above being a slave to their god. It's almost characteristic, or part and parcel with Tzeentch laying claim to your soul (or even wanting to). It's that self-serving pride, and it shows in the way Khayon imposes his will on things, regardless of the inherent violation (his Daemon-binding/collecting, the way he selfishly keeps Nefertari "alive," and forcibly rewriting Telemachon's brain chemistry). Those favored under the influence of the Changer of Ways will never acknowledge how lost they are down his paths, their pride won't allow it. It will blind them to their own blasphemy as they fall further and further in the chase for more forbidden knowledge, secrets or power, all the while thinking themselves in the right. Khayon seems to be pretty firmly on this road. His disregard for human life shows in a lot of the things he accepts as common too. Like when Abaddon offers the pre-Ezekarion drinks when they first meet him and casually explains how the tears of virgins and blood of children are mixed into it and how banal that is, and Khayon only seems surprised that Abaddon dabbled in alchemy at all. The Wonderworker short story at the end of the Talon of Horus first edition involves Khayon forging a new weapon and it's pretty heavily implied that Khayon has gathered many similar reagents for that purpose. So yeah, pretty sure he's just out culling crew members and harvesting charred children bones or whatever he needs for his sorceries "off screen," it's just too mundane to him to bother recounting to the Inquisition. Anyway, this changes if you are talking about say, the Night Lords. This was actually the one thing that really bothered me about the NL trilogy. I liked the characters too much. Talos really came off as a decent guy, he really cared about the legacy of his Legion, he believed in things beyond just murder and self-gratification, and he was protective of his human slaves (who he didn't really abuse in any way other than one beating he gave Septimus for his unauthorized hanky panky). I mean, after what Talos did on his return to Tsagualsa... "Decent guy" is a stretch for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Yes, the third NL book had Talos committing atrocities and my post originally talked about that and how it was both fitting of the Legion, and jarring for him as a character, but I deleted that since my post was already a rather prodigious block of text. As for Khayon, binding demons is not in of itself evil, I mean I guess this gets kind of philosophical, but, for example, he uses the Ragged Knight to defend himself and his comrades from an unprovoked ambush. That's not evil, it's just using an albeit esoteric tool for self defense. Telemachus gets his mind re-wired, yes, but Telemachus was one of the aforementioned fine folks attempting to kill Khayon and his entire merry band. He was lucky that he wasn't just tortured and killed, or used as a demonhost or something. Khayon didn't rewrite his mind as a vulgar display of power, or just because he really wanted a slave, it was as collateral to keep Telemachus from killing him. Also, keep in mind that in the end he rewrites it back. As for keeping Nefertari alive, I'm not sure how this is evil, I mean yeah she has issues with the uh, accommodations, but he seems to genuinely care about her, and isn't just keeping her alive for purely selfish motives. Which is what makes something evil, motive not outcome. As for Abandon's special Virgin Bloody Mary, I guess this really comes the closest, but then it's not like he killed those people himself. I mean we (and I mean this for every developed nation) also vicariously profit from killing that had been done in our name, but that doesn't make us evil. Still, to consciously drink it is to symbolically accept or even endorse it, but compared to actually doing it, it's still a far leap to make. I haven't read the short story, so maybe you have a point there, I'm not clear on the specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 "Every villain is the hero of their own story." Of course Khayon and Talos don't think of themselves as monsters. No one does, in 40K or in the real world. Adolph Hitler wanted to make his homeland prosperous and strong, he was kind to dogs, and was by all accounts charming and personable...and look how that turned out. And Tzeencht doesn't cause or encourage atrocities? What? No, seriously, what. The Burning of Prospero was directly caused by Tzeenchtian plots to bring Magnus and his Legion under the God of Change's thrall. Tzeencht tends to be more subtle than Khorne's "KILL THE ALL!" Or Nurgle's "And now, zombie apocalypse!" plans, but it causes slaughter and destruction on just as grand a scale as any of the Four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetoricus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Phenomenonal book. Characters are real and engaging, plots are deep and intriguing and I especially like his use of real world history like the Cathar Crusade and Jeebus. Easily one of my favourite's. However, is anyone else getting a little nervy at the mentioning of the End Times and the beginnings of just a hint that the 40k story may just well be moved forward? I mean where have we seen that happen before? and look how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I don't recall any part of the book suggesting a furthering of the timeline, only a setup to the current time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetoricus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I know what you're saying and you're right of course. As I said it's just the merest hint, but considering how deeply against any kind of prophecy Khayon is he seems to think he has a pretty good handle on what's coming next. Which means by definition that A-D-B knows what's coming next. Granted the rest of the series could just well be Khayon recalling the history of the Black Legion. There is certainly enough material, but it's comments like "I'm exactly where he needs me most" "none of you are destined to survive the coming of the crimson path" "The war is almost over" "his fallen angel's are coming home" Coupled with the fact that we obviously want a progression of Khayons tale, and not "just" a recounting of his past. The very fact that's he's turned up at Terra and dropped in for tea, biscuits and a bit of a chin wag, suggests that something is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What Khayon sees, what Khayon thinks he sees, might not have any bearing on what actually will happen. Which we don't know. And I'll bet you ninety copies of Fallout 4, AD-B won't let it reach the point where we will know. In fact, I'm pretty sure that what we see of him in the present is the closest to the present timeline the series will ever get. Though we are all free to assume. I think AD-B has given his opinion on the matter, which happens to coincide with mine: Abaddon wins, king of a diseased empire gasping its final breath to an uncaring galactic audience. But I highly doubt he would write a book where that actually happens, barring GW demanding it be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I agree that Abaddon is likely to win, but only so it can turn to ashes in his mouth: "There are two kinds of people to be pitied above all others: those who don't ever get what they want, and those who do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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