The good assault units of 40k

[Deschenus Maximus]

In the interest of doing a comparative analysis of DC and Sang Guard, what are the good assault units in 40k right now?

 

Off the top of my head:

CSM Nurgle DP with the Black Mace

Juggerlord w/ Axe of Blind Fury

Nurgle Spawn

Nurgle Bikers

Hammernators of all flavours

SM Bike CM with the Shield Eternal and TH

Thunderwolves w/ SS

Necron Wraiths

 

What am I forgetting?

[Frater Cornelius]

Anything that ignores terrain movement reduction, can move 12", has fleet and can survive shooting fairly well at a decent cost.

 

I can only think of 4 unit capable of that. In no particular order:

 

1) Fleshhounds of Khorne (preferably with Herald on Jugger with Hatred Locus and if points permit a second one with Rage Locus)

2) Jugger Lord with Axe of Debilitating Angriness with a Chaos Spawn bus

3) Necron Wraiths, preferably with Destructor Lord for PE (Everything)

 

and finally, in my eyes the top dog (pun intended)

 

4) Thunderwolf Cav and Thunderwolf Lord. Those are the prime example of melee power. A Thunderlord can go toe to toe with pretty much every character and/or unit in this game and come out on top.

Thunderwolves do not need SS to be effective. Half the unit (rounded down) is enough. One needs a Fist though for S10 goodness. Sometimes running them naked is a great option.

With counter-attack they do not care if they assault or are being assaulted. This is huge because most melee units need to get the charge to be effective.

Add WS5 in Champions of Fenris and you have a very capable melee unit.

 

Everything else you mentioned is either too slow, requires a transport, does not have enough punch in melee, is too fragile or all of the above.

[Remtek]

Nurgle spawn's are the toughest assault unit i face. T6 3 wounds + alot of attacks make them difficult to take down and being 10 points per wound or something. They also ignore difficult terrain. 

[Jolemai]

Honestly, I'm almost surprised there's not an Eldar choice in that list but Howling Banshees and Harlequins didn't get the love that the rest of their Codex got.

 

For the interest of completion, why not add the Death Company and the Sanguinary Guard to the comparison? Only it's likely that you'll be facing a Blood Angels force at some point.

[Raktra]

Screamerstar?

[Chaplain Admetus]

Incubi. Everyone sidelines them because "no grenades therefore they suck" but charging into cover is rarely a thing. They're a really vicious unit.

[Frater Cornelius]

Honestly, I'm almost surprised there's not an Eldar choice in that list but Howling Banshees and Harlequins didn't get the love that the rest of their Codex got.

 

For the interest of completion, why not add the Death Company and the Sanguinary Guard to the comparison? Only it's likely that you'll be facing a Blood Angels force at some point.

 

All Eldar units require transports, making them bad. Same goes for Incubi. Even though they have open topped transport, one shooting phase and they will not get out of their deployment zone. Screamerstar has very bad output in melee. Their strength comes from being nigh unkillable, should you get the correct powers.

We are not talking about units that could potentially do some damage. We are talking about melee powerhouses, right?

[Raktra]

Ha, Skarbrand then. Boy got chops (no pun...).

[Frater Cornelius]

Ha, Skarbrand then. Boy got chops (no pun...).

He only moves 6". Too slow. If he had wings, great. But he hasn't

But since we are on the BA forum here, I do rate DC quite well. Not quite as high as TWC, but definitely en par with Khorne Dogs.

Their shortcomings are the lack of Fleet and reliance on the charge. But they come at a decent price and can be taken is high numbers and they are survivable.

[Raktra]

Deep strike mitigates that somewhat. Especially if an Icon Bearer in a unit of Juggers/ those fly things has scooted up the table.

[Finn]

Dark Eldar beastmasters. Not FANTASTIC like some other, but very good for the cost. Quite cheap.

Properly kitted-out Dark Eldar grotesques. Quite expensive

Incubi are only good in the fabled land of abundant LOS-blocking terrain. In any other case they're waaaay too squishy. And a decent unit costs an arm and a leg. No sane Dark Eldar player is going to run them in a competitive environment.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You forgot Sisters Repentia with Jacobus.

 

40 Strength 6 AP2 Armourbane Attacks on the charge with rerolls.

3+ FNP, 5+ Invun rerolling Fails.

 

All for the bargain price of 240 points combined.

 

Not much can stand up to that. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

You forgot Sisters Repentia with Jacobus.

40 Strength 6 AP2 Armourbane Attacks on the charge with rerolls.

3+ FNP, 5+ Invun rerolling Fails.

All for the bargain price of 240 points combined.

Not much can stand up to that.

They require a Land Raider to be effective. A Land Raider is the most point-inefficient transport in the game. That levels it out. Also, do not forget that Eviscerators strike at I1. DC, TWC, Khorne Dogs or pretty much anything will remove a few Sisters, before they even hit.

Do not get me wrong. There is a lot of good assault units like TH/SS TDA, Repentia and so on. But there are very few great ones.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You forgot Sisters Repentia with Jacobus.

40 Strength 6 AP2 Armourbane Attacks on the charge with rerolls.

3+ FNP, 5+ Invun rerolling Fails.

All for the bargain price of 240 points combined.

Not much can stand up to that.

They require a Land Raider to be effective. A Land Raider is the most point-inefficient transport in the game. That levels it out. Also, do not forget that Eviscerators strike at I1. DC, TWC, Khorne Dogs or pretty much anything will remove a few Sisters, before they even hit.

Do not get me wrong. There is a lot of good assault units like TH/SS TDA, Repentia and so on. But there are very few great ones.

Storm Raven mate and they can take more hits than DC can in this load out and are more effective.

Seeing as how DC foot slog or come in via transport or DP these are no different.

They will lose one or 2 granted but more will be lost by being hit by them.

On the charge I would bet 10 Repentia in this load out against thunder wolves and they do the job cheaper.

Evertthing has a down side and 90% of assault units have the same issue, getting in close.

Seeing as Air support is something all armies need in some form I don't see this as having any negative, especially when the SR is such a viable flyer in its own right.

[Raktra]

Wait, since when were Flesh Hounds a high-end assault unit? They're easy as hell to kill and have no power weapons. Use them as a cohort for a tricked-out Herald, sure, but otherwise, meh.

[Loar]

no bug love? A Dimachaeron with a tyronnocyte pod is pretty devastating.  Granted this is a two unit combo (one which is forgeworld) its worth mentioning as they seem to be built for one another as much as if not more than other tyrannid options.  Once that thing lands you hid the Dimachaeron behind the pod, then next turn jump over it and into combat. 

 

It either requires your opponent to completely focus on taking it out giving all your other units a free turn to move up and shoot.  Or they have to drastically reposition and throw their carefully laid plans out the window.  I know nothing scares me more than having that thing land next to my command squad with hive tyrants bearing down and mawlocs bursting up around me on top of it.

[Frater Cornelius]

Wait, since when were Flesh Hounds a high-end assault unit? They're easy as hell to kill and have no power weapons. Use them as a cohort for a tricked-out Herald, sure, but otherwise, meh.

 

They are cheap as heck with T4, 2W, Beasts and 5++, that can be boosted with Grimoire. They can also scout. T2 charge is guaranteed. 20 of those buggers with 2 Heralds is something you can not ignore.

Compared to that, I can ignore TH/SS TDA or Skarbrand fairly well if I sport high speed armies.

[Raktra]

Eh, I don't really rate anything that only hits like an Assault Marine or tied up by Sentinels as being exceptional.

[ThatOneMarshal]

I'm surprised no one has said the nurgle daemon prince with biomancy. Very tough and can be strong with the right powers. Blood thirster is pretty cool though I'm not sure if I would classify him as great. I second the dimacheron it's pretty nasty and it got even better with the new pod.

 

Since we are on the topic of great assault units how would you deal with thunder wolf cavalry? These guy have been a pain to me since 5th edition. Anyone have any idea on there weakness and such?

[tomsev]

Nemesis dreadknights... They will spank you... Especially now they are ran in atleast pairs...

[Deschenus Maximus]

4) Thunderwolf Cav and Thunderwolf Lord. Those are the prime example of melee power. A Thunderlord can go toe to toe with pretty much every character and/or unit in this game and come out on top.

Thunderwolves do not need SS to be effective. Half the unit (rounded down) is enough. One needs a Fist though for S10 goodness. Sometimes running them naked is a great option.

With counter-attack they do not care if they assault or are being assaulted. This is huge because most melee units need to get the charge to be effective.

Add WS5 in Champions of Fenris and you have a very capable melee unit.

 

What's a typical setup for a T-Wolf Lord?

[Frater Cornelius]

There is plenty, but I have two general setups. Both with Champions of Fenris:

 

1) Runic Armour, Stormshield, Thunderwolf, Krakenbone Sword (+1S AP2 strikes at initiative), Fellclaw's Teeth (re-roll all failed to-hit rolls in close combat)

That one has decent output with S6 AP2 I5 Rending with 5A base (6 on charge or when charged) and has the usual chapter master stats with T5 and 2+/3++. I use him to run at the front of the TWC pack to soak up fire. I either roll on Personal Traits for FnP, IWND or +1 VP for each challenge kill or the one in COF, that allows to re-roll one failed save per player turn.

 

2) Runic Armour, Thunderwolf, Wolf Claw (same as Lightning Claw but also gives +1S), Power Fist, Fellclaw's Teeth.

The pinnacle of offensive power. 6A base (7on charge or being charged), has the choice between I5 S6 AP3 Rending Shred or I1 S10 AP2 and re-rolling to-hit. However, only has 2+/4++ but still T5.

This one can also be replicated with codex but costs 5 points more (they also have a relic that allows re-roll to-hit).

[Bartali]

Everything else you mentioned is either too slow, requires a transport, does not have enough punch in melee, is too fragile or all of the above.

 

Just highlighting this bit here as Immersturm got it spot on. Anything that doesn't have a 12" base move is too slow to be an effective assault unit.

 

Thunderwolf Cav are the kings at the moment, it'll be interesting to see how DC match up - I suspect they will need Red Thirst and the charge.

[Morticon]

Need to bring this back round to BA, lads!

[Frater Cornelius]

Eh, I don't really rate anything that only hits like an Assault Marine or tied up by Sentinels as being exceptional.

So? Every unit has it's counter. I would not send TWC into a Wraithknight without ablative wounds, but I would happily send Khorne Dogs with Heralds into one because Dogs have a 5++ and are cheap and numerous whereas Heralds pack enough punch to kill a WK.

 

 

 

Everything else you mentioned is either too slow, requires a transport, does not have enough punch in melee, is too fragile or all of the above.

Just highlighting this bit here as Immersturm got it spot on. Anything that doesn't have a 12" base move is too slow to be an effective assault unit.

 

Thunderwolf Cav are the kings at the moment, it'll be interesting to see how DC match up - I suspect they will need Red Thirst and the charge.

Yeah, DC relies on Rage, FC and RT. Getting the charge on them merely makes them into glorified ASM with FnP.

When getting the charge off, they will be damn killy though. Too bad they are only WS4, because adding re-rolls to hit might make them too killy and finish the assault way too quickly.

Hitting on 3s without re-roll is a good balance in my eyes. But sticking SP there is a bit of a waste, but getting them into thr Corbulo bubble might be a solid plan.