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The Liber Surgery Liber Q&A

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#1
Olis

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=][= Welcome, brothers and sisters, to the Liber Surgery. =][=
 
H
ere you will find a place where you can ask questions regarding lore, come in for advice on chapter creation or generally pester the Liber Mods. But this is what we, the Mods, are here to do: To aid you in chapter creation and understanding the 40k universe that much better. There is much to learn about the 40k universe, after all there is ten thousand years of the Imperium of Man and his foes, so we will try our best to give as good an answer as possible.
 
If anyone feels like they have a definitive answer on a member’s question, then feel free to answer them as best you can! Similarly if you think an answer was not comprehensive enough, then let us know, either in-thread or by PM and we will work to rectify the short coming. 
 
In the second post we will place all of the frequently asked questions and links to those not-so-frequent ones too, to help you find an answer quickly and easily, rather than trawl though the thread or type up a post only to find someone has already asked that question. We will refine the format as we go, so if we find that partitioning questions into groups becomes necessary then that is an option. 
 
Remember: This is a B&C thread, so B&C rules apply as normal - that means no filthy xenos questions, please, unless it regards them being ground underfoot by the Imperium (or Chaos). 

Edited by Olis, 05 January 2015 - 08:19 PM.

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#2
Dono1979

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Not sure if I am doing this right?

Are there any known/documented instances of Marine Chapters taking control of large sections of the Imperium (multiple planets/systems) and seconding the PDF, taxes etc. I know of two; Ultramar to a certain extent and the Badab wars. The first probably not as extreme as the second and the second ended kind of badly, but I was wondering whether there were other instances which happened and didnt end in war (or that did!)?


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#3
Jehoel

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The Nova Terra Interregnum of M35 was a larger and more extreme form of such a split than the Badab War of M41 was. The Nova Terra Interregnum appears (based on the 6th ed BGB) to have coincided with an internal Martian split (the Moirae Schism). A smaller example would be the Post-Age of Apostity empire of Cardinal Bucharis in M36.


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#4
Conn Eremon

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Jehoel is right, however I do not believe the Interregnum or the Reign of Terror under Bucharis were an Astartes-based or led events, which is what I believe was Dono's primary question.

 

I have ideas myself on that question, but I don't have specific examples of actual sources, which is what was asked, so I'll refrain from going further until/if I do find some.


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#5
GCU GravitasFreeZone

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All I can think of is this from the 5th edition rulebook timeline 

 

" The Waning- World after world fall to Ork invasion, Chaos insurgence or internal strife. Anarchy is rife. Ever more systems are turned over to direct governance by Space Marine chapters to preserve stability."

 

Doesn't give exact dates but it looks like M.38 onwards.


Edited by brotastic, 06 January 2015 - 05:20 AM.

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#6
Conn Eremon

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Interesting that it points out that it was turned over, not taken. I would also infer that it was a temporary state of emergency.

I'd say it's enough for someone to create a small-scale event along similar lines, if that is what the original question was about.

I could see myself doing something similar with one of my own. The main thing I have of the Emerald Tigers is their current-day state of emergency, of having the Sub-sector and Chapter be truly threatened and overrun by the vengeful furies of two warbands. This concept would be appropriate.

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#7
Scion of Ferrus

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Does anyone believe that there were any Loyalist Lodges during the Horus Heresy or is this a Cheesy thought?


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#8
Conn Eremon

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Lodges appear to not just be a Word Bearer plot, though their relevance and size did seem to increase the higher you got on the traitor meter. But on the other side of things, you have the Vlka Fenryka, whose official structure feels very much like a lodge, to the point that you could almost say that each Great Company was its own lodge, made up of its own internal lodges. Very much a marriage of the two. The White Scars seem to have functioned similarly. But their character as a Legion was more in keeping with the general theme of these lodges of warrior-brethren, and so it's easy to find points of similarity.

 

Personally, I'd say there is nothing stopping you from creating an internal organ of confraternity, whether you call it a lodge or not, whether it functions like the lodges we have seen or not. Maybe it's more like the VII Legion, with their Templars being something of a confraternity, or maybe you like the Iron Warriors, with a great number of brotherhoods that focused around a core of Marines that shared in a singular pursuit of war.


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#9
Scion of Ferrus

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Lodges appear to not just be a Word Bearer plot, though their relevance and size did seem to increase the higher you got on the traitor meter. But on the other side of things, you have the Vlka Fenryka, whose official structure feels very much like a lodge, to the point that you could almost say that each Great Company was its own lodge, made up of its own internal lodges. Very much a marriage of the two. The White Scars seem to have functioned similarly. But their character as a Legion was more in keeping with the general theme of these lodges of warrior-brethren, and so it's easy to find points of similarity.

 

Personally, I'd say there is nothing stopping you from creating an internal organ of confraternity, whether you call it a lodge or not, whether it functions like the lodges we have seen or not. Maybe it's more like the VII Legion, with their Templars being something of a confraternity, or maybe you like the Iron Warriors, with a great number of brotherhoods that focused around a core of Marines that shared in a singular pursuit of war.

 

Thank you for the reply.  It helpes a lot as it re-inforces something that I'm working on fluff-wise for my Chapter.

 

By the way - What is the Gen on your name change and its revert at the end of the month?  Is it something like a penitant vow for a non-completion or something?


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The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

-James Nicoll


#10
Conn Eremon

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Glad I could help. smile.png

 

To be brief on the name, as it's off-topic, check this Season's Greetings thread out. It allows people to change their display name if they would like to. I had wanted to change my own, so I took advantage of it. My previous display name will remain in my signature for the month of January to help prevent any confusion among those who know me as Cormac. Afterwards, I will remove it. But I will remain as Conn Eremon from here on out. I'll just be removing that Signature line. 


Edited by Conn Eremon, 07 January 2015 - 02:37 AM.

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#11
Filius

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So … as a non-englisch-native-speaker: Surgey in the meaning of "consultation hour" … right? Like a choice to ask short questions, which are not worth an own Topic, right? That's nice. I have those questions all the time … :D


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"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."


#12
Aquilanus

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So … as a non-englisch-native-speaker: Surgey in the meaning of "consultation hour" … right? Like a choice to ask short questions, which are not worth an own Topic, right? That's nice. I have those questions all the time … biggrin.png


That's the general idea. It also serves as a way of keeping such questions together in one topic for easy(ier) referencing smile.png


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#13
Filius

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@Aquilanus: Great! Thanks! So I'll just start asking …

 

When is the earliest Date, that a Space Marine Chapter would plausibly and recordedly have fought against Genestealers?

What I already know is this:

1. The Lexicanum says, that it is believed that the Ymgarl Genestealers reached Ymgarl in M35: http://wh40k.lexican...iki/Genestealer

2. But the Salamanders purged the Ymgarl Moons during 754-756.M41: http://wh40k.lexican...s#Recent_Events

That's still a period of 6000 years … biggrin.png


Edited by Filius, 08 January 2015 - 01:36 PM.

"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."


#14
Aquilanus

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I would lean towards the Ymgarl incident (mainly as it's still one of the surviving pieces of fluff from Rogue Trader). The purging event in M41 was after the Imperium found out that the 'Stealers are a smaller cog in the 'Nid machine. So yeah, circa M35 in my opinion smile.png (Bear in mind that it's my opinion not solid "fact" msn-wink.gif )

Edited by Aquilanus, 08 January 2015 - 01:53 PM.
Typo <_<

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"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you" - "Major" Motoko Kusanagi, Public Peace Section Nine

"Heroes never die!" - Angela "Mercy" Zigler Celestine

"I find your lack of FAITH! disturbing..."

Part of the ECCLESIARCHY train!

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#15
Filius

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I would lean towards the Ymgarl incident (mainly as it's still one of the surviving pieces of fluff from Rogue Trader). The purging event in M41 was after the Imperium found out that the 'Stealers are a smaller cog in the 'Nid machine. So yeah, circa M35 in my opinion smile.png (Bear in mind that it's my opinion not solid "fact" msn-wink.gif )

 

Ah! Thanks a lot! That's the Answer I hoped for! That would allow for DIY-Chapters to have at least a History of a few Milenia of Fighting against Genestealer Cults!


"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."


#16
Aquilanus

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I would lean towards the Ymgarl incident (mainly as it's still one of the surviving pieces of fluff from Rogue Trader). The purging event in M41 was after the Imperium found out that the 'Stealers are a smaller cog in the 'Nid machine. So yeah, circa M35 in my opinion smile.png (Bear in mind that it's my opinion not solid "fact" msn-wink.gif )

 
Ah! Thanks a lot! That's the Answer I hoped for! That would allow for DIY-Chapters to have at least a History of a few Milenia of Fighting against Genestealer Cults!


My love for the old 'Stealer Cults aside, I'm fairly certain that the Imperium has had to deal with their insidious ways for a long time, generally by the Arbites and/or PDF (before they get infiltrated laugh.png ), then the Sisters, Guard or Marines step in. Plenty of time frame and scope for any Chapter to have multiple encounters smile.png


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#17
Welcheren

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I'm not sure it this be helpful with regards to DIY chapter history, one option is to have a chapter engage with a seemingly unique xenos faction, which with the power of hindsight become connected with Ymarl and 'steeler cults.



#18
Dosjetka

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Interesting little topic.

I'll try to pop in and add what I can to conversations when I can/remember to do so ;)

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#19
LySiMachus

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Welcheren makes a very good point. While a Chapter could easily encounter a Genestealer Cult pre-Ymgarl, they wouldn't really know that was what it was. Possibly they would even see it as putting down a rebellion among the populace or government of a planet and while there finding and cleansing an infestation of unknown Xenos without realising that the two are connected at all.

Edited by LySiMachus, 10 January 2015 - 05:36 PM.


#20
Conn Eremon

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Ditto on LySiMachus' elaboration on Welcheren's idea. Genestealer Cults don't seem to be that widely known, compared to the Orks or, to a lesser extent, the Eldar. If you want something early, as I assume was the intent of asking twhat was the earliest known occurrence, then that stands doubly true.

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#21
Filius

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Although it would totally fit my needs, if Genestealer Cults would "only" have been identified as such retrosprectivly (if there are enough clues, of course), I dare to ask: Really? I mean … all Illustrations of Genestealer Cults I've seen contain at least a few Hybrids with quite obvious similarities to Genestealers. And if you got a Apothecarius with a suspicion, wouldn't he be able to tell that a normal looking human is a Genestealer-Hybrid?

 

Aaand (and I know that wasn't what I asked for initially):  Haven't "normal" Genestealers been infesting Space Hulks eversince M35, too?

 

Or … back to the facts: As far as I found Evidence: Jarv Advent was the first, who understood the Genestealers Lifecycle, and started to warn people about the Thread. But I can't any Information on when he lived and work on Genestealers …


Edited by Filius, 10 January 2015 - 06:56 PM.

"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."


#22
LySiMachus

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Absolutely, but remember: all the illustrations you've seen haven't been seen by the early Apothecaries/Inquisitors who first faced the 'stealers. Maybe as far as each of them was concerned, the infestation they faced was the only one of its kind, the hybrids and Genestealers were just weird mutations, one offs.

Considering the vast scope of the Imperium, and that a Company/Chapter might have fought one of these cults and then moved on to another fight against Orks/Chaos/Eldar without discussing it with anyone else and without fighting 'stealers again, it's not hard to see how it could take a long time for the separate incidents to be put together and recognised as one multi-Sector wide threat. It was after Ymgarl that these dots began to be joined.

Edited by LySiMachus, 10 January 2015 - 07:09 PM.

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#23
Conn Eremon

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And it might be relevant to point out that there can be a lot of limits as far as trying to spread the word goes. This Jarv Advent might have done his best, and he might have entire volumes dedicated to these Cults, volumes that are widely prized on a vast number of worlds.

 

Within a single Sector of the Imperium.

 

Or maybe the limit isn't how far it spreads, but how it is perceived as relevant. Maybe he spreads these volumes across whole Segmenta, but mostly everyone just looked at it and saw a local breed of xenos duly purged. A curiosity for the museums, nothing more.

 

And then, millennia later, somebody makes the connection between the Tyranids and these ancient/local volumes.

 

This isn't to say that his word of warning might not have spread far and wide, or been duly regarded as relevant. Just that, with the state of the Imperium being as it is and was, there is more than ample room for any number of outcomes.


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#24
Filius

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Fine, fine! That all is fine with my needs. At least I think so. I guess, we'll discuss that topic again, when my IA-Article ist finished. Thanks for the help!


"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."


#25
Filius

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Next Question: Codex Compliant Processes within a Codex Compliant Company … I wonder how a company works. :D

How "fixed" is a marine in his Squad? Doe they often "swap" Squads?

Who names Squads? (The Squads in the Schema of the Codex: Space Marines all have unique Names.)

What happends, when a regular Astartes (normal Marine in a Tactical Squad) dies?

Who decides which other Astartes takes his place?

And where does the other Astartes come from?

Who promotes regular Marines to Sergeants?

Do the Sergeants form a Circle on their own?

I mean … do they coordinate stuff and have Extra-Meetings or an extra Vox-Channel for that?

Or are they part of the Captains "Headquarter"?

Is the Captain usually the only Officer in a Company?

What happends, whe a Captain dies in Battle?

Who takes immediatelly over the Comand?

Who decides who get promoted to be the real new Captain of the Company?

Does the new Captain usually come from the same Company?

Does the new Captain assign a new command Squad for his Company?

 

To some degree, I can of course "assume" the answers to these questions myself. Most often there's an obvious answer. So, you don't have to really answer those. I would be more interested, if anyone really "knows" what's going on there, wether this has been defined in some White Dwarf Atricle in the last Millenium. :D

 

As always: Thanks in Advance!


"It is foolish to take a sword when you can take a shield," the old one said. "If one lunges and misses, one is not harmed. But if one is struck and has no shield, one is doomed."






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