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The Liber Surgery Liber Q&A

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#1951
Dizzyeye

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@ Ishghamor: You don't have to have an organisation that is in the wider imperium to give your noble advanced training. It could bd that due to mistrust between houses that families make sure that not only are their heirs prepared for political matters mentally but also train them in case of being sttacked by assassins or turning it around, groom them into being assassins/officers themselves.
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#1952
Isghamor

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Thanks for the reply, actually making her an assasin is quite an alluring idea ;)


"The ruinos powers are marching upon Avalon,your home,dirtying the air with their foul stench. But little they know of the strength of the sons of Avalon many of the Knights are fighting them with nothing but steel swords uncaring of their lives. My angels now go, spread your wings and satiate with the blood of the enemies of Avalon."
-Cassian at the beginning of the chaos invasion of Avalon   
link to the index astartes:Silver Feathers

#1953
Kelborn

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Thanks, Conn.

 

Will reread Extermination to have a look on the Terran XIXth Legion. Especially in terms of the Nomad Predation Fleets. Now, with the release of Outer Dark and some Ashen Claw shenanigans, I might be wiser after reading it, as well. :)

 

Nonetheless, I found a satisfying way to deal with certain "defects" like their skin color and blackened eyes, etc,


tn_gallery_87379_12273_68539.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_193556.jpg  tn_gallery_87379_12273_86064.png
 
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Brotherhood of the Lost - The Icarion Insurrection: http://www.bolterand...od-of-the-lost/

#1954
Jape

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You can do either or. Most DIYers prefer to create their own campaigns, and there are those that will argue against using established campaigns. However, most campaigns written by GW et al. leave a lot of missing pieces that a DIYer could insert themselves into if desired.

 

It can be fun to plonk your DIY chapter into major canon events, as long you don't make them the centre piece of course. It can provide a little structure, a background to help create your own story.  My original DIY chapter the Marines Scimitar sent a large contingent to Armageddon for instance, as they have an intense hatred for Greenskins owing to them having ravaged their home world. Kemal the Penitent, the chapter-master on whose watch their world all but fell was now a Dreadnought and participated in the Battle of Ghattana Bay aka Dreadmania. In reality it was purely because I love the lore of Armageddon and the global campaign is what made me into a 40k fan all those years ago.

 

If done with tact and restraint I think inserting yourself into established lore can be a great way of making your chapter feel more a part of the 40k universe. However a well-written campaign/battle all your own is arguably much more satisfying.


Edited by Jape, 19 April 2018 - 02:01 AM.

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#1955
mel_danes

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Searched online and within the B&C, with no joy.
Simple question.

Is there a campaign badge for the Indomitus Crusade?

As a crusade it may have had several campaigns, so there may not be a unified badge for the entire war.

I'd like to use it for several squads of Primaris that came from the Unnumbered Sons, joined the Ultramarine chapter during the Plague Wars and continue to fight with the chapter now.
It would be used as a honor badge, or status marking them out. On the table top it makes the squads easier to pick out.

#1956
Lord Thørn

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Whereas I haven't got an immediate answer could some sort of grey chevron work for you? Even if not an actual "campaign badge" it would still mark your guys as ex-members of the unnumbered sons :)

#1957
mel_danes

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I had considered that, possibly on a knee pad.
It is puzzling that there is not a campaign badge, or at least an easy to find one. Do you know if a fan canon version has been done? We have some very creative members.



#1958
Conn Eremon

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No fanmade ones have been made as far as I'm aware of, but the grey chevrons would be a likely choice.


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#1959
Mileposter

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So while I'm plugging through my Enyara 144th Astra Militarum and getting things ready for the ETL, it occurs to me that my other army I'm building up (Imperial Knights) and the one I've abandoned (Space Marines) can all play nicely together.

I still have a squad or two of unpainted Space Marines and Knights on the way. Since these forces all can play together, I figured it could be nifty to paint them in a unifying theme so that they look like they go together. For my style, that typically means making the bases the same - and for these that means the bog-like swamp bases I've been doing to reflect the death world of Brink.

I know that Space Marines have fought alongside Militarum forces in many campaigns, and in some cases without any particular named offense. Knights, perhaps less frequently but it happening hasn't exactly been notable on its own either. I could simply say "They fought together. Yay." and be done. But I like cohesive fluff for my forces.
 
So... Crusades? I've read that it's not uncommon for Knights to be called on for Crusades. Chapters of Space Marines get pledged to Crusades. Obviously the Militarum make the bulk of a Crusade. But what starts a Crusade? 'Declared by the High Lords of Terra' is what I could find, but that seems rather slow to organize. They're described as often being comprised of several smaller campaigns... Is it possible to have an offensive declared a Crusade after the fact? Or in process, anyway? What's the skinny on the usuals?

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#1960
Tyriks

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Knights often support other factions because their code of honor promotes that. So a knight house doesn't really need an intricate reason to get involved in fights they deem honorable. Beyond that, they would definitely assist battles close to home or close to allies they've established. The high lords are probably rarely involved in Knight houses deciding to assist.

#1961
mel_danes

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Mileposter this is very similar to my issues. If you are looking for a unifying thing so they go together visually, beyond your base, develop a campaign badge for this crusade.
Then it can be put on the vehicles, infantry and knights from any faction.
I'd love to see it, what is the name of the crusade you're developing?

#1962
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I haven't even gotten that far - I wasn't sure a Crusade would be the right answer. That's what I was hoping to get some insight on. Is a single Campaign a better option?

As for name, either way, I probably would go with 'The Antaeus Crusade/Campaign', given the aim of the action is to remove Ork and Necron occupation from the Marilith Sector.

enyara144th.png


#1963
Machine God

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Does anyone think that the Cursed Founding's are rejects of Cawl's Primaris line?


"Borg to the Max!" "Destroy All Flesh!"
 
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#1964
Lord Thørn

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I had considered that, possibly on a knee pad.
It is puzzling that there is not a campaign badge, or at least an easy to find one. Do you know if a fan canon version has been done? We have some very creative members.

The thing is with the Indomitus Crusade is that it was on such a massive scale that it couldn't really be counted as a single Campaign - if I were you, I'd create a campaign (that was a part of the crusade if you want) that your guys could have been part of, and create your own campaign badge. This would still enter into your wishes I believe.

 

So while I'm plugging through my Enyara 144th Astra Militarum and getting things ready for the ETL, it occurs to me that my other army I'm building up (Imperial Knights) and the one I've abandoned (Space Marines) can all play nicely together.

I still have a squad or two of unpainted Space Marines and Knights on the way. Since these forces all can play together, I figured it could be nifty to paint them in a unifying theme so that they look like they go together. For my style, that typically means making the bases the same - and for these that means the bog-like swamp bases I've been doing to reflect the death world of Brink.

I know that Space Marines have fought alongside Militarum forces in many campaigns, and in some cases without any particular named offense. Knights, perhaps less frequently but it happening hasn't exactly been notable on its own either. I could simply say "They fought together. Yay." and be done. But I like cohesive fluff for my forces.
 
So... Crusades? I've read that it's not uncommon for Knights to be called on for Crusades. Chapters of Space Marines get pledged to Crusades. Obviously the Militarum make the bulk of a Crusade. But what starts a Crusade? 'Declared by the High Lords of Terra' is what I could find, but that seems rather slow to organize. They're described as often being comprised of several smaller campaigns... Is it possible to have an offensive declared a Crusade after the fact? Or in process, anyway? What's the skinny on the usuals?

I don't think a campaign would be declared a Crusade after the fact, unless it's still going on. You have to remember a Crusade is massive in scale when compared to a campaign: campaigns can be centered on a single world, all the way up to a Sector, but really no bigger. As such, it requires immense amounts of ressources, and an officer to command the whole thing (think of Lord Solar Macharius or Warmasters Slaydo and Macaroth from the Gaunt's Ghosts novels) - conversely, a Campaign won't be given anywhere near as many ressources and will most likely fail if they try to bite off more than they can chew.

For your purposes of unifying the armies you play, I'd recommend focussing more on a single Campaign rather than a Crusade - that way, you'd be able to focus on only your forces and a handful of worlds that they'd be conquering, rather then inventing a new crusade that feels empty.

 

I haven't even gotten that far - I wasn't sure a Crusade would be the right answer. That's what I was hoping to get some insight on. Is a single Campaign a better option?

As for name, either way, I probably would go with 'The Antaeus Crusade/Campaign', given the aim of the action is to remove Ork and Necron occupation from the Marilith Sector.

If you want to attack the Marilith Sector (or at least the Xenos interlopers there), why would it be called the "Antaeus Campaign"? Wouldn't it be more logical to call it the "Marilith Campaign"?

Of course there's the counter example of the "Macharian Conquests", but Macharius really is the exception rather than the rule.

 

Does anyone think that the Cursed Founding's are rejects of Cawl's Primaris line?

I don't think all the chapters from the Cursed Founding would be like that, but it's definitely open enough for you to say a chapter from that founding is one :)



#1965
Mileposter

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So while I'm plugging through my Enyara 144th Astra Militarum and getting things ready for the ETL, it occurs to me that my other army I'm building up (Imperial Knights) and the one I've abandoned (Space Marines) can all play nicely together.

I still have a squad or two of unpainted Space Marines and Knights on the way. Since these forces all can play together, I figured it could be nifty to paint them in a unifying theme so that they look like they go together. For my style, that typically means making the bases the same - and for these that means the bog-like swamp bases I've been doing to reflect the death world of Brink.

I know that Space Marines have fought alongside Militarum forces in many campaigns, and in some cases without any particular named offense. Knights, perhaps less frequently but it happening hasn't exactly been notable on its own either. I could simply say "They fought together. Yay." and be done. But I like cohesive fluff for my forces.
 
So... Crusades? I've read that it's not uncommon for Knights to be called on for Crusades. Chapters of Space Marines get pledged to Crusades. Obviously the Militarum make the bulk of a Crusade. But what starts a Crusade? 'Declared by the High Lords of Terra' is what I could find, but that seems rather slow to organize. They're described as often being comprised of several smaller campaigns... Is it possible to have an offensive declared a Crusade after the fact? Or in process, anyway? What's the skinny on the usuals?

I don't think a campaign would be declared a Crusade after the fact, unless it's still going on. You have to remember a Crusade is massive in scale when compared to a campaign: campaigns can be centered on a single world, all the way up to a Sector, but really no bigger. As such, it requires immense amounts of ressources, and an officer to command the whole thing (think of Lord Solar Macharius or Warmasters Slaydo and Macaroth from the Gaunt's Ghosts novels) - conversely, a Campaign won't be given anywhere near as many ressources and will most likely fail if they try to bite off more than they can chew.
For your purposes of unifying the armies you play, I'd recommend focussing more on a single Campaign rather than a Crusade - that way, you'd be able to focus on only your forces and a handful of worlds that they'd be conquering, rather then inventing a new crusade that feels empty.
 

I haven't even gotten that far - I wasn't sure a Crusade would be the right answer. That's what I was hoping to get some insight on. Is a single Campaign a better option?

As for name, either way, I probably would go with 'The Antaeus Crusade/Campaign', given the aim of the action is to remove Ork and Necron occupation from the Marilith Sector.

If you want to attack the Marilith Sector (or at least the Xenos interlopers there), why would it be called the "Antaeus Campaign"? Wouldn't it be more logical to call it the "Marilith Campaign"?
Of course there's the counter example of the "Macharian Conquests", but Macharius really is the exception rather than the rule.


Thanks for the input on the Crusade/Campaign decision. I understand the scope of the resources given to Crusades, but it seems that is not proportionate to the scope of the aim of a Crusade - as some Crusades were called for taking only single planets. That said, I agree with the simplicity of effort. No reason to write up a full on Crusade and fill in all those blanks if I'm not going to be using any of those details.

Regarding names, it seems that Campaigns and Crusades both are named for something central to the action - for some it's the system/sector being conquered, sure, but in other cases they seem to be named after simply something significant that instigated it (though that often seems to be a location too). In this case, 'Antaeus' is the Imperium-given name for the enemy homeworld and the endgame target of the campaign. Thus both literal and symbolic. Does this not fit?

enyara144th.png


#1966
SickSix

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Hail brothers, I have been thinking of creating a second DIY chapter to scratch several itches at once. This will probably never be a modelling project but it will just let me express some ideas that I've wanted for a while. I don't know if I can reasonably check all the boxes with one chapter. So this is basically what I want to do:

 

1. A viking/norse inspired chapter culture with ZERO wolfy mcwolfclaw silliness.

2. Either fleet based or asteroid belt based chapter. Leaning toward the idea of a secret asteroid chapter monastery in am oort cloud.

3. A raider/reaver/pirate style of fighting.

 

This all started with wanting point #1, then in my head I envisioned a marine in brown armor with glowing blue runes on his armor. Then I imagined them basically being fleet based raiders. The one problem I keep hitting is origins. How would a norse/viking like chapter form from any other legion but the Space Wolves? And I know some turn their nose up at 'unkown lineage'. So not sure what approach to take there.

 

I naturally imagined them as loyalists, but honestly, maybe non-chaos renegades would work better? I feel like what I want is too similar to the Space Sharks. An old chapter that is barely seen in the galactic plane, is very tight lipped to outsiders or even other Imperium forces, but definitely loyalist.

 

Is this too 'special' or is there a way to write this well?



#1967
Radiation

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I think the space wolves are only viking/Norse because of the culture of the planet they recruit from. So if you have a planet where the population have Norse culture then the chapter would get that from the people from that planet. Fenris would not be the only planet in the galaxy with Norse culture.


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#1968
Lord Thørn

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I agree with Radiation on this one: Chapter Culture generally derives more from its homeworld (or other sources of choice) rather then "Predecessor" Chapter - For example, the Imperial Fists are inspired to some extent by the Holy Roman Empire, but the Black Templars are inspired primarily by the Teutonic Knights, whereas the Crimson Fists have more of a hispanic origin (at least in their names)



#1969
Conn Eremon

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whereas the Crimson Fists have more of a hispanic origin (at least in their names)


There is an old Irish myth of varying accounts that all depict the idea of a man cutting off his own hand and tossing it ashore ahead of his fellows, thereby beating them to the claim of whatever shore it was. The account I'm most familiar with was a boat race to an island to determine who would claim ownership of that island.

However, one of the accounts actually states that it was one of the sons of King Milesius of Spain who cast his own hand upon the shore of Ireland, to declare ahead of his brothers the right of conquest.

An old coworker of mine, who was a 40k player since the Rogue Trader days, told me that it was from this myth that the concept of the Crimson Fists was based upon, per a written interview from the mid-90s. Essentially, the idea of warriors cutting off their own sword-hands to ensure victory.

I've never actually read this interview myself, nor have I heard it mentioned anywhere else, or by anyone else, but this previous coworker of mine was not a history or myth buff, so I'm inclined to believe him. The myth itself does exist, but the most common depiction is in the Red Hand history of the O'Neills.
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#1970
SickSix

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You guys are right. I guess I tend to fall into the assumption that gene-seed dictates culture. Especially with Space Wolves and viking culture, becuase as far as I know they are the only official chapter with that kind of culture.

I was thinking they would get a lot of their culture from the people of the oort cloud. Forgotten miners that eventually turned to piracy/raiding.

#1971
Bishoujo

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Working on a Blood Angels (technically Angels Encarmine) successor and I've stumped myself on a name.  The first idea that came to mind (well, the first that I liked) was Angels Empyrean, as I thought it sounded good.  But I'm doubting myself on two fronts.  The first is that it may be too much of the same theme as it could essentially be translated into 'Heavenly Angels'.  The other side of that coin is that I did some digging and found that the term "Empyrean" is used in 40K as a synonym for the Realm of Chaos / Warp.  Not sure how much of a deal breaker that would be in the lore to have a name that could be even remotely tied to Chaos.  I guess that second point is the one that concerns me most.  How common is the term Empyrean used when referencing the warp and would that be a not great name for a Chapter as a result?

 

Haven't fleshed out their home world yet so not much inspiration to draw from there.  unsure.png


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#1972
SickSix

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@ Bishoujo

Well that could be a little wierd/awkward name for a loyalist chapter. But we also have loyalist chapters named Doom Legion, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers and so on. So I don't think it would be a problem.
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#1973
Lord Thørn

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How about "Elysian" ? Also has heavenly connotations without any of the "warp" connotations


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#1974
Bishoujo

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@ Bishoujo

Well that could be a little wierd/awkward name for a loyalist chapter. But we also have loyalist chapters named Doom Legion, Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers and so on. So I don't think it would be a problem.

 

Hah!  Very valid points there.

 

How about "Elysian" ? Also has heavenly connotations without any of the "warp" connotations

 

This is a very solid suggestion.  I'm going to roll that around in the old brain for a while and see how it feels.  Thank you!


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#1975
Qkhitai

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So I'm putting together a Dark Mechanicus army, which was originally meant to be a sectuarii cohort of the Legio Audax. However, I'm not the best painter in the world, and I've been struggling to really do justice to the Ember Wolves' paint scheme. As such, I'm thinking of going in a different direction with a paint scheme that's more achievable. Thing is, I'd have to change my army's background as well. Now I could pick another Titan Legion, which wouldn't be an issue, but I also like the idea of making my own Knight House - and owning a knight or two (plus some of those fancy new Armigers) is a lot more realistic than my ever owning a Titan. Since the infantry I've been building up are secutarii, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about how secutarii might have worked with Knight Houses? I don't know much about Knights admittedly, but I know that some were bonded to the Mechanicus and worked closely with the Collegia Titanica - and that each House would retain its own men-at-arms infantry. Would secutarii (or some similar category of skitarii) be realistic as Knight House infantry, if the house was bonded to the Mechanicum?







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